Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

[UFGN]

I wish we had a shallow manager who only wanted trophies for his CV

How have we ended up with plenty of money and still a Wenger "poor little us, plucky little Arsenal" mentality? It's embarrassing.

[Jedi]

Cos he challenges himself to win trophies. Anything less is failure.

Clubs he's been at do likewise

CL winner with Chelsea
CL runner up with PSG
French league winner with PSG (twice)
Bundesliga winner with Bayern

But we are lucky to have a guy with a long term vision and "process".

What's runner up? Do you mean he lost the CL with PSG? Why does it matter if he reached the final or dropped out of the group stage? Nobody gives credit to Arteta for finishing 2nd and having a close title race so keep the same energy.

As for winning the Bundesliga with Bayern and the McDonalds (ex-UberEats) league with PSG that's not a MANAGERIAL achievement in the slightest.

PSG have won 10 league titles in the last 12 years.

Bayern have won 11 Bundesliga titles in the last 12 years. Would be 12 out of 12 if not for Tuchel.

You have to be an idiot or face extraordinary circumstances to not win the domestic league title when going to those 2 clubs.

CL win with Chelsea is his only major managerial achievement.

[TedLasso]

If Pochettino can win Ligue with PSG, any old farmer can.

[swipe right]

If Pochettino can win Ligue with PSG, any old farmer can.

Arteta should give it a try. Didnt he once play for them?

[swipe right]

Cos he challenges himself to win trophies. Anything less is failure.

Clubs he's been at do likewise

CL winner with Chelsea
CL runner up with PSG
French league winner with PSG (twice)
Bundesliga winner with Bayern

But we are lucky to have a guy with a long term vision and "process".

What's runner up? Do you mean he lost the CL with PSG? Why does it matter if he reached the final or dropped out of the group stage? Nobody gives credit to Arteta for finishing 2nd and having a close title race so keep the same energy.

As for winning the Bundesliga with Bayern and the McDonalds (ex-UberEats) league with PSG that's not a MANAGERIAL achievement in the slightest.

PSG have won 10 league titles in the last 12 years.

Bayern have won 11 Bundesliga titles in the last 12 years. Would be 12 out of 12 if not for Tuchel.

You have to be an idiot or face extraordinary circumstances to not win the domestic league title when going to those 2 clubs.

CL win with Chelsea is his only major managerial achievement.

When Arteta matches Tuchel's achievements we can have that discussion. But right now he has 1 FA Cup to his name.

[Highbury Hillbilly]

Hmmm. Tuchel! Wonder why he bounces around so much? What's with this guy? Psychogaffer!!

You could say the same about Ancelotti, another guy who "failed" at Bayern.

I'd much rather have a manager who judges themselves on trophies and moves around accordingly, than somebody setting up a nest at one club for a decade.

Even Klopp left a year before his contract ended because he knew could not give 100% anymore, and his last 2 seasons showed it. I can't ever see that with Arteta, he is clearly a lifer, and has found the perfect club that will accommodate that career ambition.

[Maiso]

It's been 4 years

How much more time does he need?

The Doomers have not been patient for 4 years. They have had no choice but to conform to the board’s decision to stick with Arteta. Doomers all wanted the guy gone / sacked / fired in 2020 to this day, they want him gone if given an option.
The guy won an FA cup in August 2020 but by September / October 2020 the doomers were calling for him to be sacked.
And they have not relented ever since. Have they?
The guy was appointed in December 2019 but by September they wanted him gone. That’s only about 9 months of patience from you guys. Hence my analogy with the Toddlers on a 5 hours road trip to Disney Land that start throwing tantrums after only about 50 minutes of a 5 hours trip. They start with their: “Are we there yet?” Shallow minded catchphrase.

After only 9 months in charge they’ve wanted the guy sacked. So now tell me the different between *The Doomers and The Road Trip Toddler* analogy I made? The shallow short brain / attention span. It’s all sensationalistic I want it right here right now kind of mentality.

Isn’t it?

[ag6789]

So Tuchel comes to Arsenal, kicks people around and wins a Cup ( unlikely to win PL, because prolonged kicks will cause counter reaction), ruffles upper mgmt feathers with his psychotic ways, leaves, Arsenal,who then slips to 10th. A great advert for the club!
These managers like Tuchel, Conte etc, are there to project themselves and least bothered about the club. That's the reason behind hiring someone who had ties to the club along with some feelings for it ( besides having a good reference), and avoid these professional hacks, work ing their own glory. That's the Arsenal way, generally.

[Maiso]

I don't think they are serious followers of the club.
Most of them have been nagging from day One. Look back at the 2020-21 archives. Same bunch arguing about the same stuff for 4 yrs+.
Many positive, constructive thinking members have left this forum.

I think they all are serious followers of the club. I don’t like dismissing other Arsenal fans. We are all serious Arsenal fans / followers. But we have different epistemologies and ontologies when looking at different issues. We all look at the same things but come up with completely different interpretations.

And about the doomers myopic / shallow crusade to oust Arteta from the 2020-2021 season. Brother, I know what you are saying. They continue to move the goalpost as we keep going up the table. Most of the Doomers drew their “Arteta is terrible” line during that 2020-2021 season. And it’s not only on GW. All the other Arsenal fans forum have their own equivalent of the “GW Arteta Doom prophets”. It has been a brutal time, but as always the much more mature calmer brains prevailed all throughout. It’s about time Arteta starts rewarding the patience that the board and the majority of our fanbase has shown him. Fingers crossed that we start winning the big trophies as a club. I am very optimistic.

[swipe right]

So Tuchel comes to Arsenal, kicks people around and wins a Cup ( unlikely to win PL, because prolonged kicks will cause counter reaction), ruffles upper mgmt feathers with his psychotic ways, leaves, Arsenal,who then slips to 10th. A great advert for the club!
These managers like Tuchel, Conte etc, are there to project themselves and least bothered about the club. That's the reason behind hiring someone who had ties to the club along with some feelings for it ( besides having a good reference), and avoid these professional hacks, work ing their own glory. That's the Arsenal way, generally.

There is no footnote in the history books about how Tuchel supposedly destroyed Chelsea after winning the CL. Just a mention that they are CL winners.

[theHotHead]

Like I said previously, both UFGN and Jedi have valid points that shouldn't be dismissed, of course they will give greater credence to their own point of view, its normal.

What I will say in counter to UFGN is, the character of the football fan that goes to games is way different now to what it was 13 years ago when I had my season ticket, even then it had turned very corporate. There are lots of fans that are not even football people that go to games, the diehards are few in number.

I would say 70% of the people at football matches shouldn't be there, I don't think they are representative of proper football fans who have lived football, the tribalism, from they were young, so they don't have their finger on the pulse of old school football fans like me.

But you are doing exactly what @UFGN did to @jedi.
You have put yourself in this position of dictating who and should be a real fan / Supporter..

Who gave you the authority to dictate to anyone what type of fan should at these football matches? You even put a percentage on it: “70%” of the people at football matches shouldn’t be there”. Smh

And then you went even farther by nominating yourself as a great example of a true / real football fan. So individuals like yourself should be the objective the template that every other football fan should be measured / guaged from? Some sort of PURITY TEST?

This way of reasoning and thinking reminds me of how politics, religion, tradition, etc are interpreted by people.
I don’t know if you follow religion or not. For example: Every Christian denomination / sect will assure you that they are the real / true Christians while the other Sects are all false and not following the true Christianity. We have more than 10,000 different Christian sects / denominations. Each will assure you that they are the true / real Christians while their opponents are the fake ones..

Same with Islam. We have different sects that don’t agree with one another. One muslim will assure the next Muslim that they are not following the true Islam. “I am the one that is following Islam correctly” Etc kind of thing..

In politics. I don’t know if you have been following American and European politics for the last 15 or so years. In the US, different Republicans / Conservatives etc keep accusing one another of not being true Conservatives or Republicans. Hence the Maga / Trump faction vs The Establishment Republicans. Same with the Democrat. The progressives / Leftists and Moderate / establishment Democrat are also accusing each other of not being true Democrats. Each faction will assure you that it’s representing the real Democrat party.

The same with Labour and the Conservatives in the UK. The Jeremy Corbyn wing accuses the Establishment (Keir Starmer) wing of not representing the true Labour.

Football fans are no different. For example The AFTV “The Late Claude vs Ty” cringe fest..

What point am I trying to convey here. This business of dismissing other subjective fans opinion and then trying to put our own subjective opinion as the “Real objective” one makes me cringe. No one has the authority to tell another football fan or an Arsenal fan that their subjective opinion hold less weight then the self nominated “Local, organic, Real old school, True arsenal fans.
The only person / people that can may be dictate who a real or true Arsenal fan should be are those Munitions Workers from the year 1886 led by our original Captain (David Danskin) who all chipped in a few pennies to found Arsenal FC formerly known as Dial Square Football Club and later “Royal Arsenal”. Or Henry Norris that transformed us in 1912 by moving us from Woolwich to Highbury (North London).
This business of dismissing other Arsenal / Football fans is ridiculous.
Only these guys may be can dictate??.
The Munitions.

IMG_9781.jpeg

And this guy: Henry Norris

IMG_9960.jpeg

I was in the process of writing al long response and thought - nah.

Fairweather fans can't say anything to committed fans. Unless you have been to games, unless you have had a season ticket you can't understand the passion and the feeling of belonging to a club. Committed fans have spent their money following the club, local fans have the club in their blood and have done since they were kids. We have an affinity for the club that others don't, matches to them are just games, to us its tribal

Just because there are loads of women and kids at matches and its all sanitised that doesn't mean these are football people. Half of them don;'t know what they are talking about, I hear them at matches and it spoils the whole experience for me, just like Euro 96 when everyone decided to support England, watching games in pubs/public spaces was torture, non football fans chatting bare rubbish.

No internet fan can tell me anything about being an Arsenal fan, I was born and raised in Holloway, I have been to home and away games and I have been a season ticket holder. I have stood in the Clock End and North Bank at Highbury, I have gone on marches for the cause. Not everyone can be a committed fan, I get it but they need to know that they don't "get" Arsenal like we do, it belongs to us, it part of our community.

[UFGN]

It's been 4 years

How much more time does he need?

The Doomers have not been patient for 4 years. They have had no choice but to conform to the board’s decision to stick with Arteta. Doomers all wanted the guy gone / sacked / fired in 2020 to this day, they want him gone if given an option.
The guy won an FA cup in August 2020 but by September / October 2020 the doomers were calling for him to be sacked.
And they have not relented ever since. Have they?
The guy was appointed in December 2019 but by September they wanted him gone. That’s only about 9 months of patience from you guys. Hence my analogy with the Toddlers on a 5 hours road trip to Disney Land that start throwing tantrums after only about 50 minutes of a 5 hours trip. They start with their: “Are we there yet?” Shallow minded catchphrase.

After only 9 months in charge they’ve wanted the guy sacked. So now tell me the different between *The Doomers and The Road Trip Toddler* analogy I made? The shallow short brain / attention span. It’s all sensationalistic I want it right here right now kind of mentality.

Isn’t it?

Doomers you say

If he’d actually won trophies with the money and time he’s had we wouldn’t have a problem. But he hasn’t. And that’s why there’s a problem

Doomers y’know

You don’t like devision among the fabase you say…..you’re full of shit. Making loooooong posts that nobody can be arsed to respond to doesn’t make you any less full of shit.

[UFGN]

Like I said previously, both UFGN and Jedi have valid points that shouldn't be dismissed, of course they will give greater credence to their own point of view, its normal.

What I will say in counter to UFGN is, the character of the football fan that goes to games is way different now to what it was 13 years ago when I had my season ticket, even then it had turned very corporate. There are lots of fans that are not even football people that go to games, the diehards are few in number.

I would say 70% of the people at football matches shouldn't be there, I don't think they are representative of proper football fans who have lived football, the tribalism, from they were young, so they don't have their finger on the pulse of old school football fans like me.

But you are doing exactly what @UFGN did to @jedi.
You have put yourself in this position of dictating who and should be a real fan / Supporter..

Who gave you the authority to dictate to anyone what type of fan should at these football matches? You even put a percentage on it: “70%” of the people at football matches shouldn’t be there”. Smh

And then you went even farther by nominating yourself as a great example of a true / real football fan. So individuals like yourself should be the objective the template that every other football fan should be measured / guaged from? Some sort of PURITY TEST?

This way of reasoning and thinking reminds me of how politics, religion, tradition, etc are interpreted by people.
I don’t know if you follow religion or not. For example: Every Christian denomination / sect will assure you that they are the real / true Christians while the other Sects are all false and not following the true Christianity. We have more than 10,000 different Christian sects / denominations. Each will assure you that they are the true / real Christians while their opponents are the fake ones..

Same with Islam. We have different sects that don’t agree with one another. One muslim will assure the next Muslim that they are not following the true Islam. “I am the one that is following Islam correctly” Etc kind of thing..

In politics. I don’t know if you have been following American and European politics for the last 15 or so years. In the US, different Republicans / Conservatives etc keep accusing one another of not being true Conservatives or Republicans. Hence the Maga / Trump faction vs The Establishment Republicans. Same with the Democrat. The progressives / Leftists and Moderate / establishment Democrat are also accusing each other of not being true Democrats. Each faction will assure you that it’s representing the real Democrat party.

The same with Labour and the Conservatives in the UK. The Jeremy Corbyn wing accuses the Establishment (Keir Starmer) wing of not representing the true Labour.

Football fans are no different. For example The AFTV “The Late Claude vs Ty” cringe fest..

What point am I trying to convey here. This business of dismissing other subjective fans opinion and then trying to put our own subjective opinion as the “Real objective” one makes me cringe. No one has the authority to tell another football fan or an Arsenal fan that their subjective opinion hold less weight then the self nominated “Local, organic, Real old school, True arsenal fans.
The only person / people that can may be dictate who a real or true Arsenal fan should be are those Munitions Workers from the year 1886 led by our original Captain (David Danskin) who all chipped in a few pennies to found Arsenal FC formerly known as Dial Square Football Club and later “Royal Arsenal”. Or Henry Norris that transformed us in 1912 by moving us from Woolwich to Highbury (North London).
This business of dismissing other Arsenal / Football fans is ridiculous.
Only these guys may be can dictate??.
The Munitions.

IMG_9781.jpeg

And this guy: Henry Norris

IMG_9960.jpeg

I was in the process of writing al long response and thought - nah.

Fairweather fans can't say anything to committed fans. Unless you have been to games, unless you have had a season ticket you can't understand the passion and the feeling of belonging to a club. Committed fans have spent their money following the club, local fans have the club in their blood and have done since they were kids. We have an affinity for the club that others don't, matches to them are just games, to us its tribal

Just because there are loads of women and kids at matches and its all sanitised that doesn't mean these are football people. Half of them don;'t know what they are talking about, I hear them at matches and it spoils the whole experience for me, just like Euro 96 when everyone decided to support England, watching games in pubs/public spaces was torture, non football fans chatting bare rubbish.

No internet fan can tell me anything about being an Arsenal fan, I was born and raised in Holloway, I have been to home and away games and I have been a season ticket holder. I have stood in the Clock End and North Bank at Highbury, I have gone on marches for the cause. Not everyone can be a committed fan, I get it but they need to know that they don't "get" Arsenal like we do, it belongs to us, it part of our community.

I would just point out that I know four different elderly ladies who are ST holders and they would beat your arse with their handbags for suggesting they’re not serious

I know one who goes home and away and misses only the occasional match……if it clashes with her skin cancer treatment and even then only if the appointment couldn’t be moved. Every, every, every home and away match. Whenever I don’t fancy an away match and I could do it, I think of her and then I shut my mouth and book the tickets!

[alexis2015finalgoal]

Four and a half years is long enough. he's won an FA Cup and if we're being shameless, two COmmunity shields.

How much longer does he get? there has to be a return. top four and CL football alone isn't good enough.

Arteta needs the transfer window of his life, just to keep the pressure on City and to actually win something.

If we win nothing this coming season, but finish in the top four or put a good show in the CL, it's the fans who are backing him who are the issue.

We're not gonna finish second or push City close forever.

And a lot of our good players are highly-rated. Saliba said he's a Gooner from young, but then if we just "challenge" and don't win, why wol;d he stay long-term? Even Starboy himself might go. What if Odegaard continues to cook, we win nothing, and then Real Madrid ask him to come back? Or Barca when they get good again? Or even Man City to replace Bernado and KdB? Or even Man United if they get good again? Or Chelsea?

But nooooo.

We have to let a manager who wasn't even a legend as a player stay. Cos he's the "best-looking Spaniard we know!" is this a football club. or a fashion show?

[Highbury Hillbilly]

I won't deny it, I am a doomer. If the shoe fits...

I'm worried Arteta is hollowing out the academy by not showing them a path to the senior team.

I'm worried that he can't convince a ready-made WC player to join us, and is dependent on paying over the odds for "PL experience" buys who aren't better than what we had (Havertz, Jesus, Zinch, even Raya).

Most of all I'm worried that 2nd place and no trophies is as good as it gets with him at the helm. Utd have a worse manager tactically, yet they went past Klopp and Pep to win a trophy. Does anybody trust Arteta to beat those teams in the cups, when the pressure is on?