Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:57 am

theHotHead wrote:Well look at Ten Hag, he won trophies in back to back seasons and they are saying his contract will be extended.

Let that be a lesson to all of you that c;laim finishing nowhere in the legue but winning trophies is failure. Winning trophies is absolute, it goes into the history books and whats in the history books is what will be remembered for eternity !


His original contract still has a year to run, with a 1 year extension option . Even if they exercise that option, he will have a shorter tenure than what Arteta has already had.

They're not handing out 3yr extensions like candy the way we seem to be.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Maiso » Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:49 pm

:ghost:
ag6789 wrote:Goal is to win trophies always. Think that's what the club is striving for. Just your timeline doesn't match with theirs.
They are trying to get there through a realistic path, they feel would work, whereas yours is: since X,Y or Z has done it ( maybe by buying the league, maybe they have found the best man at the right time by luck) , so it must be done now, by hook or crook.

The “Arteta Doomers” very shallow / surface level mentality / attitude reminds of kids (5, 6 and year olds) on a road trip to Disney, Thorpe Park, Chessington World of Adventure, or any holiday away. It a 5 hours trip but the moment that car pulls out of the driveway / been driving for about 15 minutes, the toddlers are already asking:

The 5 year old: “Mummy / Daddy, Are we there Yet?”..
Parents: “Not yet baby”.

Then they will wait another 20 minutes and ask once again:
Toddler: “Mummy / Daddy, Are we there yet?”.
Parent: “Not yet sweetie”.

Then after about an hour they are getting even more restless. They ask another time.
The 6 year old: “Mummy / Daddy, Are we there yet?” Parents: “Not yet love. We are still far away from Disney, and with all this traffic it will take us a bit longer (a few) more hours to get there. But not to worry, you can watch / play some games on your Ipad for now while we figure this journey out”..

From hearing such devastating news the toddlers then throw a tantrum / fit demanding to be delivered at Disney Land right now, citing: “But but we have been on our best behaviour/ patient for an hour. Why don’t you teleport us to Disney? We want it now mummy and daddy” :P

That’s how I have been interpreting the The Arteta Doomers since the 2020/2021 season. They only concentrate on the final destination without even being cognisant of the fact that to achieve anything in life / to get to any given destination, you have got to acknowledge / factor in “TIME” and other aspects. The doomers seem to have this very simplistic / myopic way of reasoning.
“Destination vs Time graph”.

While mature thinking people acknowledge that everything has to go through some sort of process, the other lot believe in magic and teleportation. “Say abracadabra and you will just pop up to your desired destination. Poof :ghost: :ghost:
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Ach » Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:58 pm

It's been 4 years

How much more time does he need?
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Maiso » Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:05 pm

ag6789 wrote:Goal is to win trophies always. Think that's what the club is striving for. Just your timeline doesn't match with theirs.
They are trying to get there through a realistic path, they feel would work, whereas yours is: since X,Y or Z has done it ( maybe by buying the league, maybe they have found the best man at the right time by luck) , so it must be done now, by hook or crook.

This is where the disconnect has been and continues to be. The club continues to clearly directly / indirectly that they chos the long haul / marathon route while some fans were expecting and still expect a 100 meter sprint to the finish line..

This is what I have been arguing with the Doomers all throughout the Arteta tenure.
The club clearly showed the path it wanted to follow by appointing a novice / rookie young manager that has never managed a single club. So definitely they were looking at things through a long process / patience lense while some fans were looking through a short term (I want it right now) lense.
If they wanted the shotgun approach that some fantasise about then they would have gone for an an experienced / established manager at the time. They were available (Conte, Mourinho, simeone, Ancelotti, Tuchel, Ten Hag, etc). But they chose a novice. That should have been clear to what path the club had chosen. But some people don’t seem to think beyond the surface..
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby ag6789 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:26 pm

I don't think they are serious followers of the club.
Most of them have been nagging from day One. Look back at the 2020-21 archives. Same bunch arguing about the same stuff for 4 yrs+.
Many positive, constructive thinking members have left this forum.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Ach » Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:36 pm

ag6789 wrote:I don't think they are serious followers of the club.
Most of them have been nagging from day One. Look back at the 2020-21 archives. Same bunch arguing about the same stuff for 4 yrs+.
Many positive, constructive thinking members have left this forum.

You love failure and yet say others aren't serious fans?
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby 22-0 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 5:47 pm

VCC wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Well look at Ten Hag, he won trophies in back to back seasons and they are saying his contract will be extended.

Let that be a lesson to all of you that c;laim finishing nowhere in the legue but winning trophies is failure. Winning trophies is absolute, it goes into the history books and whats in the history books is what will be remembered for eternity !

We are writing our own woke record books , it's all about pretty football and top 4 trophy for participating in CL.


you had me at the first half :rofll:
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Maiso » Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:23 pm

theHotHead wrote:Like I said previously, both UFGN and Jedi have valid points that shouldn't be dismissed, of course they will give greater credence to their own point of view, its normal.

What I will say in counter to UFGN is, the character of the football fan that goes to games is way different now to what it was 13 years ago when I had my season ticket, even then it had turned very corporate. There are lots of fans that are not even football people that go to games, the diehards are few in number.

I would say 70% of the people at football matches shouldn't be there, I don't think they are representative of proper football fans who have lived football, the tribalism, from they were young, so they don't have their finger on the pulse of old school football fans like me.

But you are doing exactly what @UFGN did to @jedi.
You have put yourself in this position of dictating who and should be a real fan / Supporter..

Who gave you the authority to dictate to anyone what type of fan should at these football matches? You even put a percentage on it: “70%” of the people at football matches shouldn’t be there”. Smh

And then you went even farther by nominating yourself as a great example of a true / real football fan. So individuals like yourself should be the objective the template that every other football fan should be measured / guaged from? Some sort of PURITY TEST?

This way of reasoning and thinking reminds me of how politics, religion, tradition, etc are interpreted by people.
I don’t know if you follow religion or not. For example: Every Christian denomination / sect will assure you that they are the real / true Christians while the other Sects are all false and not following the true Christianity. We have more than 10,000 different Christian sects / denominations. Each will assure you that they are the true / real Christians while their opponents are the fake ones..

Same with Islam. We have different sects that don’t agree with one another. One muslim will assure the next Muslim that they are not following the true Islam. “I am the one that is following Islam correctly” Etc kind of thing..

In politics. I don’t know if you have been following American and European politics for the last 15 or so years. In the US, different Republicans / Conservatives etc keep accusing one another of not being true Conservatives or Republicans. Hence the Maga / Trump faction vs The Establishment Republicans. Same with the Democrat. The progressives / Leftists and Moderate / establishment Democrat are also accusing each other of not being true Democrats. Each faction will assure you that it’s representing the real Democrat party.

The same with Labour and the Conservatives in the UK. The Jeremy Corbyn wing accuses the Establishment (Keir Starmer) wing of not representing the true Labour.

Football fans are no different. For example The AFTV “The Late Claude vs Ty” cringe fest..

What point am I trying to convey here. This business of dismissing other subjective fans opinion and then trying to put our own subjective opinion as the “Real objective” one makes me cringe. No one has the authority to tell another football fan or an Arsenal fan that their subjective opinion hold less weight then the self nominated “Local, organic, Real old school, True arsenal fans.
The only person / people that can may be dictate who a real or true Arsenal fan should be are those Munitions Workers from the year 1886 led by our original Captain (David Danskin) who all chipped in a few pennies to found Arsenal FC formerly known as Dial Square Football Club and later “Royal Arsenal”. Or Henry Norris that transformed us in 1912 by moving us from Woolwich to Highbury (North London).
This business of dismissing other Arsenal / Football fans is ridiculous.
Only these guys may be can dictate??.
The Munitions.
IMG_9781.jpeg

And this guy: Henry Norris
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby ag6789 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:31 pm

Nobody loves failures. But there's sensible way to approach. You can't pass an exam studying overnight. Takes time to prepare for it
But with some of you , right from 2019 , bent on the narrative that this process is bound to fail. Every move, every player recruitment was considered rubbish, led by a bunch of fools from top to bottom of the club. Seems you don't want the club to succeed at all.
At one point there was a notion that players like Saliba, Saka etc won't sign a contract extension. Someone cawed and the same bunch immediately chimed in. But, lo and behold, everyone fell in line and signed extensions.
Seems, you people know so much more than actual football people running the show. Seems you have a crystal ball. Amazing !!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:36 pm

Maiso wrote:If they wanted the shotgun approach that some fantasise about then they would have gone for an an experienced / established manager at the time. They were available (Conte, Mourinho, simeone, Ancelotti, Tuchel, Ten Hag, etc). But they chose a novice. That should have been clear to what path the club had chosen.


You give any of those guys £400m and we wouldn't be here talking about what unicorn 20yo FW who also tracks back and defends well is needed to win a friggin' FA Cup.

Tuchel won the CL, Super Cup and CWC with 2 clowns in Havertz and Werner up top. He also lost 3 finals in that time.

We cannot even make a final and some will claim up and down that this is actually 4D chess.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby ag6789 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:28 pm

Hmmm. Tuchel! Wonder why he bounces around so much? What's with this guy? Psychogaffer!!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Ach » Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:51 pm

Cos he challenges himself to win trophies. Anything less is failure.

Clubs he's been at do likewise
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:27 pm

Ach wrote:Cos he challenges himself to win trophies. Anything less is failure.

Clubs he's been at do likewise

CL winner with Chelsea
CL runner up with PSG
French league winner with PSG (twice)
Bundesliga winner with Bayern

But we are lucky to have a guy with a long term vision and "process".
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Ach » Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:28 pm

swipe right wrote:
Ach wrote:Cos he challenges himself to win trophies. Anything less is failure.

Clubs he's been at do likewise

CL winner with Chelsea
CL runner up with PSG
French league winner with PSG (twice)
Bundesliga winner with Bayern

But we are lucky to have a guy with a long term vision and "process".

Most important thing to some
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Nuggets » Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:37 pm

swipe right wrote:
Ach wrote:Cos he challenges himself to win trophies. Anything less is failure.

Clubs he's been at do likewise

CL winner with Chelsea
CL runner up with PSG
French league winner with PSG (twice)
Bundesliga winner with Bayern

But we are lucky to have a guy with a long term vision and "process".


reason being? so even if you have won FA with all the money thrown at you as long as you have long-term and process vision that's ok
Right, mmm :think:
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