Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:30 am

It’s clear what the ownership wants. They are not looking to win anything. Never have and never will. They are looking for an efficient system where young players will be developed and sold on for value. The best that will be asked of a manager is to keep us 4-5 so we make some Europe money while buying 21-25 year olds and selling them at profit 2-3 years later.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Arsenal Tone » Mon Jul 18, 2022 5:24 am

swipe right wrote:It’s clear what the ownership wants. They are not looking to win anything. Never have and never will. They are looking for an efficient system where young players will be developed and sold on for value. The best that will be asked of a manager is to keep us 4-5 so we make some Europe money while buying 21-25 year olds and selling them at profit 2-3 years later.
The 'Wenger' model. I read an article once by a journalist in the financial section of a newspaper who had found himself sat with Arsene at a charity dinner. It was just after Abramovic had bought Chelsea and people were questionning his motives.

He said he had asked Wenger if it was possible to make money in football. Wenger's response was "yes, by developing youth players". He said you bring through youngsters, sell them in their peak and then bring through the next lot of youngsters. He gave examples of dutch clubs who had successfully been run using this model.

Pretty sure this was back in the 'dial up' days before everyone had broadband and I've spent hours over the years trying to see if the article was available online and not found it.
Ramsdale/Turner
Tomiyasu/???--White/Saliba--Gabriel/Holding--Tierney/???
Partey/Elneny--???/Xhaka
Saka/Vieira--Odegaard/Smith Rowe--Martinelli/???
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:20 am

Arsenal Tone wrote:
swipe right wrote:It’s clear what the ownership wants. They are not looking to win anything. Never have and never will. They are looking for an efficient system where young players will be developed and sold on for value. The best that will be asked of a manager is to keep us 4-5 so we make some Europe money while buying 21-25 year olds and selling them at profit 2-3 years later.
The 'Wenger' model. I read an article once by a journalist in the financial section of a newspaper who had found himself sat with Arsene at a charity dinner. It was just after Abramovic had bought Chelsea and people were questionning his motives.

He said he had asked Wenger if it was possible to make money in football. Wenger's response was "yes, by developing youth players". He said you bring through youngsters, sell them in their peak and then bring through the next lot of youngsters. He gave examples of dutch clubs who had successfully been run using this model.

Pretty sure this was back in the 'dial up' days before everyone had broadband and I've spent hours over the years trying to see if the article was available online and not found it.

Of course. We all know this. But back then the excuse was that we had to pay off a debt that we took to build the stadium. And I am sure that was true to an extent. But we cleared the debt in 2014. Now it’s a case of greedy owners who see this as a business rather than a sport. And are too stupid to know that building a winning club earns greater financial rewards than an also-ran.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:22 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Zinchenko is pure mediocre!! Dafuq is wrong with you people!

He was Man City's third choice Left back, after Mendy who we all know about and Cancelo who played left and right back.

People are easily pleased, a fit Tierney pisses all over Zinchenko. I don't want mediocre I want good to top quality.


.......... is he better than Tavares?

:rofll:

If that's a yes, that's why he's coming, Tierney likely still first choice.

He is better than Tavares but, thats not saying much!! I don't see the point in wasting time and money on lots of incremental changes. Zinchenko is a mediocre upgrade, no point.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Slick » Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:38 pm

swipe right wrote:It’s clear what the ownership wants. They are not looking to win anything. Never have and never will. They are looking for an efficient system where young players will be developed and sold on for value. The best that will be asked of a manager is to keep us 4-5 so we make some Europe money while buying 21-25 year olds and selling them at profit 2-3 years later.


2 of $tan’s team have won championships this year! The Rams won the Super Bowl and Colorado won the Stanley Cup, and his NBA team makes the playoffs every year.

He wants his teams to win and he spends enough money to get the job done. Where he’s gone wrong as far as Arsenal is concerned is with who he’s hired to run the club.

I used to hate Kroenke with a passion but my stance on him as an owner has softened. He just needs to get the right manager and technical director.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:00 pm

If winning is important to him why did he let so many good and experienced managers pass by, why did he opt for a manager with zero experience ?

I get why you might pass up experience if there was someone with inexperience that was showing or that showed such a huge amount of potential that you couldn't ignore him. Arteta was ignored the first time around, when Emery was appointed instead, what did Arteta do in the 3 years with Guardiola that made someone think "Arteta is an outstanding coach, we must get him at all costs" ????
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby 22-0 » Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:07 pm

Got no faith in arteta my self.. the way he bottled top 4 this season is all i need to know
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:09 pm

It was a succession of bad decisions, terrible decisions. This follows on from the season of bad decisions in 2020/21
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:24 pm

22-0 wrote:Got no faith in arteta my self.. the way he bottled top 4 this season is all i need to know


Me neither, very limited manager, can’t believe the club have been happy to back him and continue to do so given his performance.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:28 pm

theHotHead wrote:If winning is important to him why did he let so many good and experienced managers pass by, why did he opt for a manager with zero experience ?

I get why you might pass up experience if there was someone with inexperience that was showing or that showed such a huge amount of potential that you couldn't ignore him. Arteta was ignored the first time around, when Emery was appointed instead, what did Arteta do in the 3 years with Guardiola that made someone think "Arteta is an outstanding coach, we must get him at all costs" ????


I’ll never understand the hype about Arteta, Guardiola has had numerous coaches and whoever it is he wins, City have actually been better since Arteta left.

I could understand it more if he was a legend of the club that you think could motivate players through his reputation (even then I prefer a manager to prove himself), but with Arteta he wasn’t and I didn’t get the fuss, I think it was just the fact he worked with Guardiola.

Turns out very little has rubbed off on him and he’s not very good, odd that he club should continue to back a manager who has proved to be not good enough, it’s a waste of resources and time IMO.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jul 18, 2022 6:57 pm

Aint that the truth, well maybe some of Guardiola's arrogance has rubbed off on him and most likely because he won the FA Cup when he took over. No telling how big that made his head go. All I have seen since then is a series of piss poor decisions and mistakes, man has the people skills of someone that has never been around humans before.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:28 pm

I’m with you, when he does eventually go he’ll look back at getting the Arsenal job as his biggest achievement because he won’t be pulling any trees out elsewhere either.

Hopefully when we do eventually come to our senses we employ someone suitable who can in almost 3 seasons provide some clear progress and doesn’t need 150-200 million every summer to get us in the top 5-8 places.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Slick » Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:31 pm

Fair criticisms for his hiring of Arteta and Edu, but saying he doesn’t want to win doesn’t really jive with how his other teams have performed.

If I was him I’d fire Arteta for continuing to keep Xhaka’s name in ink on the team sheet every week but the last thing you want as a fan is a meddling owner who thinks he knows how to manage and buy players.

What you want is an owner who hires the right people for the job and write the checks and stays out of the way. He’s done the latter, and we shouldn’t complain about that.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:53 pm

theHotHead wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Zinchenko is pure mediocre!! Dafuq is wrong with you people!

He was Man City's third choice Left back, after Mendy who we all know about and Cancelo who played left and right back.

People are easily pleased, a fit Tierney pisses all over Zinchenko. I don't want mediocre I want good to top quality.


.......... is he better than Tavares?

:rofll:

If that's a yes, that's why he's coming, Tierney likely still first choice.

He is better than Tavares but, thats not saying much!! I don't see the point in wasting time and money on lots of incremental changes. Zinchenko is a mediocre upgrade, no point.


Oh well too late ........... he's here lol.

Having his medical as we speak.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Est83 » Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:01 am

swipe right wrote:It’s clear what the ownership wants. They are not looking to win anything. Never have and never will. They are looking for an efficient system where young players will be developed and sold on for value. The best that will be asked of a manager is to keep us 4-5 so we make some Europe money while buying 21-25 year olds and selling them at profit 2-3 years later.


I think this would be true if we weren't breaking the bank as we did last summer. We've got an expensive keeper, a £50m CB, a couple of £30-45m players who themselves are either hitting their peak ages or are already coming out of the age bracket where you might expect to get them cheap (to maximise profits when they're eventually sold).

Marquinhos fits in to this perhaps, but Vieira at £35 certainly doesn't. I don't think there's anything to indicate that we're following that route.
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