Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

[DiamondGooner]

Honestly ........... this is worth a watch guys.

The info here on how important having good managers are is unarguable.

I think this analysis is bang on.

[Salibatelli]

The season did not start at Christmas.

If next season we are dogsh*t in first half of season and sit 17th at Christmas, but then have a blinder second half of the season and recover to 8th, is that going to be another encouraging run of 22 games in your book, Jayram? Reason to be positive and give Arteta yet another season?

Where does it end? How is a manager who finishes mid table after swinging wildly between bottom and top better than one that spends the entire season in mid table?

Look, is it possible that Arteta will have a much better season next year? Of course. Lots of things are possible. Is it likely? Not on the evidence of the last 18 months.

Around the same time last year it was the same thing. Our post Christmas form was good once Arteta took over, top 4 I think. The thinking back then was that we could have finished in the Top 4 if Arteta had a full season. Well...he has had a full season now. Here we go again.

Spot on, he’s had a season and a half now and this season has been worse than last season and there’s no real signs of progress which you’d have expected to see by now.

[Salibatelli]

The season did not start at Christmas.

If next season we are dogsh*t in first half of season and sit 17th at Christmas, but then have a blinder second half of the season and recover to 8th, is that going to be another encouraging run of 22 games in your book, Jayram? Reason to be positive and give Arteta yet another season?

Where does it end? How is a manager who finishes mid table after swinging wildly between bottom and top better than one that spends the entire season in mid table?

Look, is it possible that Arteta will have a much better season next year? Of course. Lots of things are possible. Is it likely? Not on the evidence of the last 18 months.

Around the same time last year it was the same thing. Our post Christmas form was good once Arteta took over, top 4 I think. The thinking back then was that we could have finished in the Top 4 if Arteta had a full season. Well...he has had a full season now. Here we go again.

Last year post-Christmas we didn't improve offensively. It was all defensive improvements.
Our creativity didn't improve.
Our record under Arteta in 2019/20 was W9 D6 L5 in 20 matches. That's 1.65 points per game.
Since last Christmas its 1.86 points per game.

This year we have improved dramatically in terms of goals and creativity ever since the Chelsea game, whilst maintaining the defensive improvements Arteta has brought.

Improvements from where we were are not going to be nicely placed between seasons.

It's quite simple. Since Christmas we've been the joint second-best team in the league.
Whilst we also got the manager bounce post Emery last year, we were well short of being the second-best for the remainder of the season.

We're 18 months in and the improvements are easy to see.
This was always going to be a longer road to recovery.

Fans need to be more patient.
We're in transition and that includes young players who can be inconsistent AND a squad of many older players we need to move on.

Rather than look at stats it’s better to look at what people have been watching and it’s clear that’s been utter rubbish, we’ve struggled, struggled to win games and the performances even when we have have largely been poor, there’s a reason people haven’t been happy and it’s not because they’ve been seeing tangible progress.

Stats in isolation without considering what people have actually seen with their own eyes can be deceiving and in this case they are, because as well being the worst season in 25 years, there’s been so many mistakes made by him it’s untrue and as mentioned before the football has been turgid.

People haven’t turned on Arteta on the back of a few matches, it’s off the back of a disastrous season and the lack of visible progress.

It’s crazy to keep him on, he’s shown he’s not up to the job, I’d prefer we let someone else come in and have a go and also allowed them to bring their own players in, if he gets another summer he gets to waste more money and the next manager then has less money to spend, a bit like what happened with Emery when he came in, that will make their job tougher and set us back even further.

When we gave him the job we really couldn’t have made a worse decision.

[Arsenal Tone]

The clearout in January gives me hope for the summer. I'm willing to give him one more window but expect him to hit the ground running when the new season starts.

[Power n Glory]

The season did not start at Christmas.

If next season we are dogsh*t in first half of season and sit 17th at Christmas, but then have a blinder second half of the season and recover to 8th, is that going to be another encouraging run of 22 games in your book, Jayram? Reason to be positive and give Arteta yet another season?

Where does it end? How is a manager who finishes mid table after swinging wildly between bottom and top better than one that spends the entire season in mid table?

Look, is it possible that Arteta will have a much better season next year? Of course. Lots of things are possible. Is it likely? Not on the evidence of the last 18 months.

Around the same time last year it was the same thing. Our post Christmas form was good once Arteta took over, top 4 I think. The thinking back then was that we could have finished in the Top 4 if Arteta had a full season. Well...he has had a full season now. Here we go again.

Last year post-Christmas we didn't improve offensively. It was all defensive improvements.
Our creativity didn't improve.
Our record under Arteta in 2019/20 was W9 D6 L5 in 20 matches. That's 1.65 points per game.
Since last Christmas its 1.86 points per game.

This year we have improved dramatically in terms of goals and creativity ever since the Chelsea game, whilst maintaining the defensive improvements Arteta has brought.

Improvements from where we were are not going to be nicely placed between seasons.

It's quite simple. Since Christmas we've been the joint second-best team in the league.
Whilst we also got the manager bounce post Emery last year, we were well short of being the second-best for the remainder of the season.

We're 18 months in and the improvements are easy to see.
This was always going to be a longer road to recovery.

Fans need to be more patient.
We're in transition and that includes young players who can be inconsistent AND a squad of many older players we need to move on.

Rather than look at stats it’s better to look at what people have been watching and it’s clear that’s been utter rubbish, we’ve struggled, struggled to win games and the performances even when we have have largely been poor, there’s a reason people haven’t been happy and it’s not because they’ve been seeing tangible progress.

Stats in isolation without considering what people have actually seen with their own eyes can be deceiving and in this case they are, because as well being the worst season in 25 years, there’s been so many mistakes made by him it’s untrue and as mentioned before the football has been turgid.

People haven’t turned on Arteta on the back of a few matches, it’s off the back of a disastrous season and the lack of visible progress.

It’s crazy to keep him on, he’s shown he’s not up to the job, I’d prefer we let someone else come in and have a go and also allowed them to bring their own players in, if he gets another summer he gets to waste more money and the next manager then has less money to spend, a bit like what happened with Emery when he came in, that will make their job tougher and set us back even further.

When we gave him the job we really couldn’t have made a worse decision.

I wouldn’t waste your time. He's bored.

Form last year in the New Year had us in the Top 4.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2019&min=21&max=38

This year we're now Top 2 in form. Great. So the players aren't that bad, useless and checked out as being argued. The manager just made a lot of mistakes early in the season and we have to hope he doesn't make the same mistakes again next year. That's the message.

[theHotHead]

I think there is far too much binary reaction to points being made.
We're not where we need to be yet, but we're improving and the last 22 games have been encouraging in that respect.
That's the point. It's not all doom and gloom.

Even beyond just the INPUTS to goals we can also look at the goals - it's 38 goals in those 22 games vs only 12 in the first 14 games.
1.72 goals per game vs 0.86. That is a big improvement over a sustained period compared to how we started this season.
Over that 22 game stretch, I believe only 2 teams have scored more goals than us.

We have had performances that have cropped up that are still poor - Liverpool, Everton and Fulham games spring to mind.
The team has a lot of youngsters in it - so we're going to be inconsistent. There is no getting around that. Ad in that some of the senior players have not performed. Against that backdrop the last 5 months have been pretty good in the league - but there was the big disappointment (for some) of going out of the EL. That is creating an environment of thinking we're a 2/10 instead of a 6/10 and improving.

I mean, really, we have people bigging up Everton. They are 1 point ahead of us - and only because of a goalkeeping howler.
We hear how their manager is a genius and Arteta is an idiot. 1 point really makes the difference between a genius and an idiot?
Over the last 22 game period we're over 15 points better than Everton.
I think Tuchel the Great is only 6 points better than Arteta since Tuchel arrived.

Some fans just are totally OTT on slagging Arteta right now because of the EL. I am not buying it and I sincerely hope the owners don't.

tuchel has come in and turned Chelsea around completely Jay, that shouldn't even be up for discussion. Even with our so-called improved footie we have hovvered around 10th place for how many months, so we can't have been that good/improved otherwise we would have climbed up the table. We are as good as Lampard's Chelsea were, Tuchel's Chelsea are fighting for a CL place !

Since Tuchel arrived he has had to arrest a slide down the table and get used to a new league and completely new players, to be 6pts ahead of Arteta is all the more embarrasing for Arteta, who has had far more Prem experience than Tuchel.

And as much as you and Santi want to diss Ancelotti, the Everton squad is NOT better than ours or as good as ours, Ancelotti is automatically at a defecit, so the fact he is doing better than Arteta tells you all you need to know.

[Power n Glory]

The clearout in January gives me hope for the summer. I'm willing to give him one more window but expect him to hit the ground running when the new season starts.

I don't think there is much of a choice. It sounds like that's what the owners are looking for as well.

[jayramfootball]

The season did not start at Christmas.

If next season we are dogsh*t in first half of season and sit 17th at Christmas, but then have a blinder second half of the season and recover to 8th, is that going to be another encouraging run of 22 games in your book, Jayram? Reason to be positive and give Arteta yet another season?

Where does it end? How is a manager who finishes mid table after swinging wildly between bottom and top better than one that spends the entire season in mid table?

Look, is it possible that Arteta will have a much better season next year? Of course. Lots of things are possible. Is it likely? Not on the evidence of the last 18 months.

Around the same time last year it was the same thing. Our post Christmas form was good once Arteta took over, top 4 I think. The thinking back then was that we could have finished in the Top 4 if Arteta had a full season. Well...he has had a full season now. Here we go again.

Last year post-Christmas we didn't improve offensively. It was all defensive improvements.
Our creativity didn't improve.
Our record under Arteta in 2019/20 was W9 D6 L5 in 20 matches. That's 1.65 points per game.
Since last Christmas its 1.86 points per game.

This year we have improved dramatically in terms of goals and creativity ever since the Chelsea game, whilst maintaining the defensive improvements Arteta has brought.

Improvements from where we were are not going to be nicely placed between seasons.

It's quite simple. Since Christmas we've been the joint second-best team in the league.
Whilst we also got the manager bounce post Emery last year, we were well short of being the second-best for the remainder of the season.

We're 18 months in and the improvements are easy to see.
This was always going to be a longer road to recovery.

Fans need to be more patient.
We're in transition and that includes young players who can be inconsistent AND a squad of many older players we need to move on.

Rather than look at stats it’s better to look at what people have been watching and it’s clear that’s been utter rubbish, we’ve struggled, struggled to win games and the performances even when we have have largely been poor, there’s a reason people haven’t been happy and it’s not because they’ve been seeing tangible progress.

Stats in isolation without considering what people have actually seen with their own eyes can be deceiving and in this case they are, because as well being the worst season in 25 years, there’s been so many mistakes made by him it’s untrue and as mentioned before the football has been turgid.

People haven’t turned on Arteta on the back of a few matches, it’s off the back of a disastrous season and the lack of visible progress.

It’s crazy to keep him on, he’s shown he’s not up to the job, I’d prefer we let someone else come in and have a go and also allowed them to bring their own players in, if he gets another summer he gets to waste more money and the next manager then has less money to spend, a bit like what happened with Emery when he came in, that will make their job tougher and set us back even further.

When we gave him the job we really couldn’t have made a worse decision.

I wouldn’t waste your time. He's bored.

Form last year in the New Year had us in the Top 4.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/formtabelle/wettbewerb/GB1?saison_id=2019&min=21&max=38

This year we're now Top 2 in form. Great. So the players aren't that bad, useless and checked out as being argued. The manager just made a lot of mistakes early in the season and we have to hope he doesn't make the same mistakes again next year. That's the message.

Post-Christmas last year was from matchday 19, not 21.
The form was 6th best in the league last year.
2nd best this time around since Christmas.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier ... =19&max=38

But, whatever, what it shows that Arteta did well when he joined to the end of the season last year, had a terrible start to this season, but has recovered it to do very well since Christmas.
So we had a bad run over 14 games to start this year.
I am not surprised at all given the state the club were in that in the first 18 months Arteta has not managed to avoid any bad runs in results.

Fans are screaming for his sacking now despite a sustained good run in the PL, but the temperature was a lot cooler when we were actually having a really bad run at the start of the year. Seems odd.

It's simply a reaction to the EL exit and way OTT.

[jayramfootball]

I think there is far too much binary reaction to points being made.
We're not where we need to be yet, but we're improving and the last 22 games have been encouraging in that respect.
That's the point. It's not all doom and gloom.

Even beyond just the INPUTS to goals we can also look at the goals - it's 38 goals in those 22 games vs only 12 in the first 14 games.
1.72 goals per game vs 0.86. That is a big improvement over a sustained period compared to how we started this season.
Over that 22 game stretch, I believe only 2 teams have scored more goals than us.

We have had performances that have cropped up that are still poor - Liverpool, Everton and Fulham games spring to mind.
The team has a lot of youngsters in it - so we're going to be inconsistent. There is no getting around that. Ad in that some of the senior players have not performed. Against that backdrop the last 5 months have been pretty good in the league - but there was the big disappointment (for some) of going out of the EL. That is creating an environment of thinking we're a 2/10 instead of a 6/10 and improving.

I mean, really, we have people bigging up Everton. They are 1 point ahead of us - and only because of a goalkeeping howler.
We hear how their manager is a genius and Arteta is an idiot. 1 point really makes the difference between a genius and an idiot?
Over the last 22 game period we're over 15 points better than Everton.
I think Tuchel the Great is only 6 points better than Arteta since Tuchel arrived.

Some fans just are totally OTT on slagging Arteta right now because of the EL. I am not buying it and I sincerely hope the owners don't.

tuchel has come in and turned Chelsea around completely Jay, that shouldn't even be up for discussion. Even with our so-called improved footie we have hovvered around 10th place for how many months, so we can't have been that good/improved otherwise we would have climbed up the table. We are as good as Lampard's Chelsea were, Tuchel's Chelsea are fighting for a CL place !

Since Tuchel arrived he has had to arrest a slide down the table and get used to a new league and completely new players, to be 6pts ahead of Arteta is all the more embarrasing for Arteta, who has had far more Prem experience than Tuchel.

And as much as you and Santi want to diss Ancelotti, the Everton squad is NOT better than ours or as good as ours, Ancelotti is automatically at a defecit, so the fact he is doing better than Arteta tells you all you need to know.

..and what if Chelsea lose the CL final and finish 5th? Very possible.
He'll probably be sacked.

As for Ancelloti - he's on a poor run of results whilst Arteta is on a good run.
As it stands we may actually finish above them.
But one is a genius and the other is an idiot.
Doesn't make sense.

It's like last year, apparently Ancellotti 'saved' Everton from relegation, hence is a genius. When he and Arteta started their jobs - at the same time - Everton were just 4 points behind Arsenal. The season finished with them 7 points behind us.

[theHotHead]

I think the manner in which we went of the EL semi was unforgivable to most.

To all

Villarreal are a good side so not surprised we lost. Anyone can lose a game but add the horror season we've had and how big that semi final had become for us and Arteta still manages to f**k it up with shit tactics and no urgency football, it's no surprise we all want rid of him.

We don't all want rid of him.
Because there is a demonstrable improvement I am not in the Arteta out camp now, he needs 1 more season to see if he can continue the good improvements we've
made and turn that into a top 4 finish next year.

We’re midtable me, we were midtable last season, this season, it’s dreadful and I don’t consider that an improvement at all.

The stuff you’re talking about it really scraping the bottom of the barrel IMO, because most people don’t enjoy games under Arteta, results are pretty poor on the whole and performances also are.

You’re talking about a recent run of results which mainly consist of relegated teams (Fulham, West Brom and Sheff Utd and of course a Chelsea team who have bigger fish to fry but also pinned us in our own half for much of the game, the performance was awful even if the result was good, albeit in a meaningless match.

I am talking about a run of our last 22 games. Not a recent spell. We've beaten Chelsea twice, beaten Spurs, beaten Leicester and drawn with Man Utd and West Ham in that run. It's the same schedule as every other club.
A schedule where we have achieved 12 wins, 5 draws and 5 losses. 41 points. The same as Man Utd over the same period and better than everyone else except City.
It's a decent run.

Sacking a manager when he has the joint second-best record in the PL over the last 5 months or so would be utterly foolish.

No, it would be sacking a manager who, at the end of the season, has woefully underperformed. Jay look at your argument, if you were given a target at work and you didn't achieve it but you had a good second half, you would expect to be sacked because you missed your target and by some margin. Finishing 10th is unacceptable !

[theHotHead]

The season did not start at Christmas.

If next season we are dogsh*t in first half of season and sit 17th at Christmas, but then have a blinder second half of the season and recover to 8th, is that going to be another encouraging run of 22 games in your book, Jayram? Reason to be positive and give Arteta yet another season?

Where does it end? How is a manager who finishes mid table after swinging wildly between bottom and top better than one that spends the entire season in mid table?

Look, is it possible that Arteta will have a much better season next year? Of course. Lots of things are possible. Is it likely? Not on the evidence of the last 18 months.

Around the same time last year it was the same thing. Our post Christmas form was good once Arteta took over, top 4 I think. The thinking back then was that we could have finished in the Top 4 if Arteta had a full season. Well...he has had a full season now. Here we go again.

It was always the case with Wenger, we would have our February/March collapse and go out of every competition, than rally towards the end of the season, qualify for Europe then Yaaaay happy days !

[jayramfootball]

The season did not start at Christmas.

If next season we are dogsh*t in first half of season and sit 17th at Christmas, but then have a blinder second half of the season and recover to 8th, is that going to be another encouraging run of 22 games in your book, Jayram? Reason to be positive and give Arteta yet another season?

Where does it end? How is a manager who finishes mid table after swinging wildly between bottom and top better than one that spends the entire season in mid table?

Look, is it possible that Arteta will have a much better season next year? Of course. Lots of things are possible. Is it likely? Not on the evidence of the last 18 months.

Around the same time last year it was the same thing. Our post Christmas form was good once Arteta took over, top 4 I think. The thinking back then was that we could have finished in the Top 4 if Arteta had a full season. Well...he has had a full season now. Here we go again.

It was always the case with Wenger, we would have our February/March collapse and go out of every competition, than rally towards the end of the season, qualify for Europe then Yaaaay happy days !

It is actually true that we seem to have a period most every season where we go through some terrible form.
Been happening for years - which tells me this is a player and metal issue at the club that is not going to be fixed overnight.

[jayramfootball]

I think the manner in which we went of the EL semi was unforgivable to most.

To all

Villarreal are a good side so not surprised we lost. Anyone can lose a game but add the horror season we've had and how big that semi final had become for us and Arteta still manages to f**k it up with shit tactics and no urgency football, it's no surprise we all want rid of him.

We don't all want rid of him.
Because there is a demonstrable improvement I am not in the Arteta out camp now, he needs 1 more season to see if he can continue the good improvements we've
made and turn that into a top 4 finish next year.

We’re midtable me, we were midtable last season, this season, it’s dreadful and I don’t consider that an improvement at all.

The stuff you’re talking about it really scraping the bottom of the barrel IMO, because most people don’t enjoy games under Arteta, results are pretty poor on the whole and performances also are.

You’re talking about a recent run of results which mainly consist of relegated teams (Fulham, West Brom and Sheff Utd and of course a Chelsea team who have bigger fish to fry but also pinned us in our own half for much of the game, the performance was awful even if the result was good, albeit in a meaningless match.

I am talking about a run of our last 22 games. Not a recent spell. We've beaten Chelsea twice, beaten Spurs, beaten Leicester and drawn with Man Utd and West Ham in that run. It's the same schedule as every other club.
A schedule where we have achieved 12 wins, 5 draws and 5 losses. 41 points. The same as Man Utd over the same period and better than everyone else except City.
It's a decent run.

Sacking a manager when he has the joint second-best record in the PL over the last 5 months or so would be utterly foolish.

No, it would be sacking a manager who, at the end of the season, has woefully underperformed. Jay look at your argument, if you were given a target at work and you didn't achieve it but you had a good second half, you would expect to be sacked because you missed your target and by some margin. Finishing 10th is unacceptable !

I would expect from my client and also provide to the people who work for me a heads up to improve.
If the improvement was seen I would not expect to be sacked or to sack anyone.

In your example - let's use sales targets - you start at company with 20 salespeople in it of which you are one. You are one of the top salespeople in your first half-year, then you have a bad half-year, followed by the second-best performance in the team in the next 6 months. Sacked? I don't think so.

[Salibatelli]

Yeah these supposed good runs in isolation are a waste of time,a season isn’t played over 20 games!

Plus even if this is a good run, nobody can recognise it as we’ve really been pretty poor, scraped wins with poor performances when you’re already so far behind do so much for you.

We got knocked out of all 3 cup competitions, lag in midtable in the league, we’re largely awful in the EL other than the odd match (seem to be a trait of his team), frankly I couldn’t care less about some pointless run that hasn’t even been impressive to watch in the latter part of the season, in that time we’ve continued to lose important matches.

All I know is it’s the worse season I can remember, even in the 2nd part of the season it’s been awful, the fact he’s been getting so much criticism from everyone tells you it’s not been good.

[theHotHead]

Honestly ........... this is worth a watch guys.

The info here on how important having good managers are is unarguable.

I think this analysis is bang on.

Totally spot on with this and you can see it. Thats why people that diss Benitez don't know what they are talking about, the guy is a great tactician, given a decent squad he would perform. People expected him to perform miracles at Newcastle with no money spent