Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:57 am

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
ag6789 wrote:That's what all
this fuss is about- top 4. Achievable if we cut out silly mistakes at the back and improve our productivity a little bit ( mark the words' a little '). We were 5-6(?) poin5s adrift, which can be easily overhauled with little efforts and willingness, even with what we have.
Bigger goal is to go all the way. Think we need couple of marquee signings away from ' IT'. Lets see how things pan out in near future.


I think we can get top 4 also - if we get a little luck.
Realistically 5th or 6th is well within reach

As for being title challengers, we're still 3 years or so off that if things go well on the recruitment and development front.
Tell you what I am really excited about what ESR and Saka can do this year. they are going to get better.
Even in pre-season, I can see a certain air about ESR - more settled into his status as a star player.

Jay, you amongst others have more than once said the squad is not good enough for top 6. Is this another "Jay- turn"??


Two young stars developing and getting better as I referenced.
Partey with a year under his belt. I expect him to be better.
No crappy Europa League to waste time and energy in. That's a big plus for our PL season.

Turn? No. Still a lot of surgery to do on the squad but it's a journey and it is getting better.

Move from 8th to 6th is realistic.
Not a huge move.
The starting point for Arteta in terms of squad strength is precisely why we would need to be lucky to get top 4.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Goonerz » Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:51 am

swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:So top four is now the aspiration? I thought that wasn’t good enough for us?


Of course top 4 is an aspiration for this season and would be a massive achievement if we do it.
Winning the title is also an aspiration, but it's less likely (a lot).

5th or 6th would be a good season but we all want to be higher - as high as possible.

Are you Wenger in disguise? Cause I’m sure that’s what he’d say.

Wenger had absolutely stagnated the whole club. Finishing in the Top 4 for 10 seasons and a chunk of those seasons we just about kept holding on for 4th against Spurs by a point or a few points.

And Wenger failed in his last 2 seasons. He couldn’t get top 4. Finished 5th and 6ths consecutively. The trajectory was very clear in his last 12 seasons here. Wenger had hit his ceiling. Just making up numbers in the Top 4 with next to zero chance of seriously competing for the title. And it was even worse in Europe. Get out of the group stages (last 16) and be knocked out by humiliating score lines.


If Arteta got 4th place for the next 4 seasons then I would want him out too. Wengers Stagnation is a massive reason we are where we are today. He left us with a squad full of average / overrated players.

We had lost any sense of respect from other clubs. No one is still scared of us anymore (small or big clubs). Pundits always make fun of us as the weakest link in the Sky 6.. All started under wenger. He refused to evolve and change with the constantly evolving world of football. Hence the likes of Spuds, Liverpool, Leicester etc caught up passed us.

And if Arteta ever last long enough at Arsenal and all he ever achieves is Top 4 then I would want him gone as well. Top 4 is the half way point, can’t just get comfortable just finishing 4th every season with zero push to challenge/ win the Title.

And Arteta is already walking on thin ice at the moment. This is his last chance for me. Gonna give him the first 10 or so games and if he serves up the same nonsense like he did last season then he should be sacked there and then before another season goes to complete waste.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:35 am

Goonerz wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:So top four is now the aspiration? I thought that wasn’t good enough for us?


Of course top 4 is an aspiration for this season and would be a massive achievement if we do it.
Winning the title is also an aspiration, but it's less likely (a lot).

5th or 6th would be a good season but we all want to be higher - as high as possible.

Are you Wenger in disguise? Cause I’m sure that’s what he’d say.

Wenger had absolutely stagnated the whole club. Finishing in the Top 4 for 10 seasons and a chunk of those seasons we just about kept holding on for 4th against Spurs by a point or a few points.

And Wenger failed in his last 2 seasons. He couldn’t get top 4. Finished 5th and 6ths consecutively. The trajectory was very clear in his last 12 seasons here. Wenger had hit his ceiling. Just making up numbers in the Top 4 with next to zero chance of seriously competing for the title. And it was even worse in Europe. Get out of the group stages (last 16) and be knocked out by humiliating score lines.


If Arteta got 4th place for the next 4 seasons then I would want him out too. Wengers Stagnation is a massive reason we are where we are today. He left us with a squad full of average / overrated players.

We had lost any sense of respect from other clubs. No one is still scared of us anymore (small or big clubs). Pundits always make fun of us as the weakest link in the Sky 6.. All started under wenger. He refused to evolve and change with the constantly evolving world of football. Hence the likes of Spuds, Liverpool, Leicester etc caught up passed us.

And if Arteta ever last long enough at Arsenal and all he ever achieves is Top 4 then I would want him gone as well. Top 4 is the half way point, can’t just get comfortable just finishing 4th every season with zero push to challenge/ win the Title.

And Arteta is already walking on thin ice at the moment. This is his last chance for me. Gonna give him the first 10 or so games and if he serves up the same nonsense like he did last season then he should be sacked there and then before another season goes to complete waste.

I see. So if I hear you clearly, we should sack a guy who regularly gets top four, pray the guy after him gets top four, be disappointed if he does, and if he doesn’t sack him for someone else who’ll be given the same bizarre treatment. Well this all makes perfect sense then.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:39 am

swipe right wrote:
Goonerz wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:So top four is now the aspiration? I thought that wasn’t good enough for us?


Of course top 4 is an aspiration for this season and would be a massive achievement if we do it.
Winning the title is also an aspiration, but it's less likely (a lot).

5th or 6th would be a good season but we all want to be higher - as high as possible.

Are you Wenger in disguise? Cause I’m sure that’s what he’d say.

Wenger had absolutely stagnated the whole club. Finishing in the Top 4 for 10 seasons and a chunk of those seasons we just about kept holding on for 4th against Spurs by a point or a few points.

And Wenger failed in his last 2 seasons. He couldn’t get top 4. Finished 5th and 6ths consecutively. The trajectory was very clear in his last 12 seasons here. Wenger had hit his ceiling. Just making up numbers in the Top 4 with next to zero chance of seriously competing for the title. And it was even worse in Europe. Get out of the group stages (last 16) and be knocked out by humiliating score lines.


If Arteta got 4th place for the next 4 seasons then I would want him out too. Wengers Stagnation is a massive reason we are where we are today. He left us with a squad full of average / overrated players.

We had lost any sense of respect from other clubs. No one is still scared of us anymore (small or big clubs). Pundits always make fun of us as the weakest link in the Sky 6.. All started under wenger. He refused to evolve and change with the constantly evolving world of football. Hence the likes of Spuds, Liverpool, Leicester etc caught up passed us.

And if Arteta ever last long enough at Arsenal and all he ever achieves is Top 4 then I would want him gone as well. Top 4 is the half way point, can’t just get comfortable just finishing 4th every season with zero push to challenge/ win the Title.

And Arteta is already walking on thin ice at the moment. This is his last chance for me. Gonna give him the first 10 or so games and if he serves up the same nonsense like he did last season then he should be sacked there and then before another season goes to complete waste.

I see. So if I hear you clearly, we should sack a guy who regularly gets top four, pray the guy after him gets top four, be disappointed if he does, and if he doesn’t sack him for someone else who’ll be given the same bizarre treatment. Well this all makes perfect sense then.


The reason we were not happy with just top 4 under Wenger is because that was a regression from where we'd been.
Top 4 now would be progress from where we are.
Probably the most simple thing in the world to understand.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:40 am

Goonerz wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:So top four is now the aspiration? I thought that wasn’t good enough for us?


Of course top 4 is an aspiration for this season and would be a massive achievement if we do it.
Winning the title is also an aspiration, but it's less likely (a lot).

5th or 6th would be a good season but we all want to be higher - as high as possible.

Are you Wenger in disguise? Cause I’m sure that’s what he’d say.

Wenger had absolutely stagnated the whole club. Finishing in the Top 4 for 10 seasons and a chunk of those seasons we just about kept holding on for 4th against Spurs by a point or a few points.

And Wenger failed in his last 2 seasons. He couldn’t get top 4. Finished 5th and 6ths consecutively. The trajectory was very clear in his last 12 seasons here. Wenger had hit his ceiling. Just making up numbers in the Top 4 with next to zero chance of seriously competing for the title. And it was even worse in Europe. Get out of the group stages (last 16) and be knocked out by humiliating score lines.


If Arteta got 4th place for the next 4 seasons then I would want him out too. Wengers Stagnation is a massive reason we are where we are today. He left us with a squad full of average / overrated players.

We had lost any sense of respect from other clubs. No one is still scared of us anymore (small or big clubs). Pundits always make fun of us as the weakest link in the Sky 6.. All started under wenger. He refused to evolve and change with the constantly evolving world of football. Hence the likes of Spuds, Liverpool, Leicester etc caught up passed us.

And if Arteta ever last long enough at Arsenal and all he ever achieves is Top 4 then I would want him gone as well. Top 4 is the half way point, can’t just get comfortable just finishing 4th every season with zero push to challenge/ win the Title.

And Arteta is already walking on thin ice at the moment. This is his last chance for me. Gonna give him the first 10 or so games and if he serves up the same nonsense like he did last season then he should be sacked there and then before another season goes to complete waste.


Pretty much spot on IMO.
I am slightly different in that I'll give Arteta up to Christmas. We need to be top 6 by then and not adrift from top 4.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:52 am

jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:
Goonerz wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:So top four is now the aspiration? I thought that wasn’t good enough for us?


Of course top 4 is an aspiration for this season and would be a massive achievement if we do it.
Winning the title is also an aspiration, but it's less likely (a lot).

5th or 6th would be a good season but we all want to be higher - as high as possible.

Are you Wenger in disguise? Cause I’m sure that’s what he’d say.

Wenger had absolutely stagnated the whole club. Finishing in the Top 4 for 10 seasons and a chunk of those seasons we just about kept holding on for 4th against Spurs by a point or a few points.

And Wenger failed in his last 2 seasons. He couldn’t get top 4. Finished 5th and 6ths consecutively. The trajectory was very clear in his last 12 seasons here. Wenger had hit his ceiling. Just making up numbers in the Top 4 with next to zero chance of seriously competing for the title. And it was even worse in Europe. Get out of the group stages (last 16) and be knocked out by humiliating score lines.


If Arteta got 4th place for the next 4 seasons then I would want him out too. Wengers Stagnation is a massive reason we are where we are today. He left us with a squad full of average / overrated players.

We had lost any sense of respect from other clubs. No one is still scared of us anymore (small or big clubs). Pundits always make fun of us as the weakest link in the Sky 6.. All started under wenger. He refused to evolve and change with the constantly evolving world of football. Hence the likes of Spuds, Liverpool, Leicester etc caught up passed us.

And if Arteta ever last long enough at Arsenal and all he ever achieves is Top 4 then I would want him gone as well. Top 4 is the half way point, can’t just get comfortable just finishing 4th every season with zero push to challenge/ win the Title.

And Arteta is already walking on thin ice at the moment. This is his last chance for me. Gonna give him the first 10 or so games and if he serves up the same nonsense like he did last season then he should be sacked there and then before another season goes to complete waste.

I see. So if I hear you clearly, we should sack a guy who regularly gets top four, pray the guy after him gets top four, be disappointed if he does, and if he doesn’t sack him for someone else who’ll be given the same bizarre treatment. Well this all makes perfect sense then.


The reason we were not happy with just top 4 under Wenger is because that was a regression from where we'd been.
Top 4 now would be progress from where we are.
Probably the most simple thing in the world to understand.

Top four would be progress from where we are because of how far we’ve fallen since Wenger left, numbnuts.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:05 am

swipe right wrote:I see. So if I hear you clearly, we should sack a guy who regularly gets top four, pray the guy after him gets top four, be disappointed if he does, and if he doesn’t sack him for someone else who’ll be given the same bizarre treatment. Well this all makes perfect sense then.

Swipey, all of that would be true if Wenger had continued o get top 4, he didn't by the time he left, we were firmly rooted outside of the top 4
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:55 am

swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:
Goonerz wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:So top four is now the aspiration? I thought that wasn’t good enough for us?


Of course top 4 is an aspiration for this season and would be a massive achievement if we do it.
Winning the title is also an aspiration, but it's less likely (a lot).

5th or 6th would be a good season but we all want to be higher - as high as possible.

Are you Wenger in disguise? Cause I’m sure that’s what he’d say.

Wenger had absolutely stagnated the whole club. Finishing in the Top 4 for 10 seasons and a chunk of those seasons we just about kept holding on for 4th against Spurs by a point or a few points.

And Wenger failed in his last 2 seasons. He couldn’t get top 4. Finished 5th and 6ths consecutively. The trajectory was very clear in his last 12 seasons here. Wenger had hit his ceiling. Just making up numbers in the Top 4 with next to zero chance of seriously competing for the title. And it was even worse in Europe. Get out of the group stages (last 16) and be knocked out by humiliating score lines.


If Arteta got 4th place for the next 4 seasons then I would want him out too. Wengers Stagnation is a massive reason we are where we are today. He left us with a squad full of average / overrated players.

We had lost any sense of respect from other clubs. No one is still scared of us anymore (small or big clubs). Pundits always make fun of us as the weakest link in the Sky 6.. All started under wenger. He refused to evolve and change with the constantly evolving world of football. Hence the likes of Spuds, Liverpool, Leicester etc caught up passed us.

And if Arteta ever last long enough at Arsenal and all he ever achieves is Top 4 then I would want him gone as well. Top 4 is the half way point, can’t just get comfortable just finishing 4th every season with zero push to challenge/ win the Title.

And Arteta is already walking on thin ice at the moment. This is his last chance for me. Gonna give him the first 10 or so games and if he serves up the same nonsense like he did last season then he should be sacked there and then before another season goes to complete waste.

I see. So if I hear you clearly, we should sack a guy who regularly gets top four, pray the guy after him gets top four, be disappointed if he does, and if he doesn’t sack him for someone else who’ll be given the same bizarre treatment. Well this all makes perfect sense then.


The reason we were not happy with just top 4 under Wenger is because that was a regression from where we'd been.
Top 4 now would be progress from where we are.
Probably the most simple thing in the world to understand.

Top four would be progress from where we are because of how far we’ve fallen since Wenger left, numbnuts.


What has that got to do with anything?
:dontknow:

It's either a good achievement and something to aspire to or not. It obviously is.
When Wenger was in charge it was not - apart from maybe his last season or two by which time he'd starting missing top 4.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:48 am

Laughable discussion. We have brought in 3 nobodies and people think that's Top 6 worthy?
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:00 pm

aniym wrote:Laughable discussion. We have brought in 3 nobodies and people think that's Top 6 worthy?


Don't be silly.
We were a fraction from top 6 last year and we have young players with an extra year of experience, like ESR and Saka.
We already showed we had improved from the mess of the end of 2020 calendar year.
Add the right players - no need for them to be stars - and we have a very realistic shot at top 6.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:30 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
aniym wrote:Laughable discussion. We have brought in 3 nobodies and people think that's Top 6 worthy?


Don't be silly.
We were a fraction from top 6 last year and we have young players with an extra year of experience, like ESR and Saka.
We already showed we had improved from the mess of the end of 2020 calendar year.
Add the right players - no need for them to be stars - and we have a very realistic shot at top 6.

So do you admit that your previous analysis that the squad isn't good enough for top 6 was wide of the mark, when you consider all of the mistakes made by the manager ? Surely without Arteta being a dumbass we should've achieved a top 6 placing.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:31 pm

theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:I see. So if I hear you clearly, we should sack a guy who regularly gets top four, pray the guy after him gets top four, be disappointed if he does, and if he doesn’t sack him for someone else who’ll be given the same bizarre treatment. Well this all makes perfect sense then.

Swipey, all of that would be true if Wenger had continued o get top 4, he didn't by the time he left, we were firmly rooted outside of the top 4

No we were not firmly rooted outside top four. We missed top four twice in 22 years, once by a single point. This is absolute nonsense talk. Of course in two decades there would be a season or two where we’d be outside. Chelsea have had such seasons as well. Unfortunately it was used by Gazidis to settle internal scores. And then he jumped off the sinking ship the minute he realized he couldn’t handle it.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:33 pm

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
aniym wrote:Laughable discussion. We have brought in 3 nobodies and people think that's Top 6 worthy?


Don't be silly.
We were a fraction from top 6 last year and we have young players with an extra year of experience, like ESR and Saka.
We already showed we had improved from the mess of the end of 2020 calendar year.
Add the right players - no need for them to be stars - and we have a very realistic shot at top 6.

So do you admit that your previous analysis that the squad isn't good enough for top 6 was wide of the mark, when you consider all of the mistakes made by the manager ? Surely without Arteta being a dumbass we should've achieved a top 6 placing.


No, that is not what I said.
Our squad has improved for the reasons I already stated.
Before it was just shy of 6th (about right).. .with the improvement (largely due to players getting better with experience) we should be good for 6th.
I think 4th would be an overachievement.

We've been round the houses on the managers influence - even if our squad was underperforming relative to where they should have been, I primarily blame the players. We just differ in that view.
That is not to say that Arteta can not have an influence with poor decision on selections particularly.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:55 pm

swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:I see. So if I hear you clearly, we should sack a guy who regularly gets top four, pray the guy after him gets top four, be disappointed if he does, and if he doesn’t sack him for someone else who’ll be given the same bizarre treatment. Well this all makes perfect sense then.

Swipey, all of that would be true if Wenger had continued o get top 4, he didn't by the time he left, we were firmly rooted outside of the top 4

No we were not firmly rooted outside top four. We missed top four twice in 22 years, once by a single point. This is absolute nonsense talk. Of course in two decades there would be a season or two where we’d be outside. Chelsea have had such seasons as well. Unfortunately it was used by Gazidis to settle internal scores. And then he jumped off the sinking ship the minute he realized he couldn’t handle it.

Mate we were shite !! Be honest with yourself !

You didn't need to be Mystic Meg to see us declining, it wasn't a decline over 2 seasons, it was close to 10 seasons of year on year decline. So eventually when the inevitable happened Wenger and Wenger alone was to blame, because he and he alone was responsible and accountable. Had he not lost the plot having the likes of Sanchez and Ozil should've propelled us back up to being competitive. But instead of that he neglected our midfield and defence.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:52 pm

We finished second in 2016. That’s two years before he was fired. How that makes it ten years in decline I don’t know. You’d be doing cartwheels if we finish second any time in the next decade.
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