Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby thebigbangtheo » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:28 pm

Well, I for one can see a slow but steady progression of the team under Arteta from that as it was when he took over.

That we are effectively only inching forward as opposed to taking leaps and bounds I can live with if ultimately those inches add up to a golden mile.

That I haven't agreed with some of his player assessments and decisions on formations and team selection has not then blinded me to the things that he has done right.

We don't seem to have a problem in accepting that our team is seriously ill, but some seem happy to have us spit out and refuse the medicine because it tastes rank. Well, right now, Arteta is the Sylvester Stallone character from the film 'Cobra' in being the cure (no starmandb, I'm not referring to Dr. Robert and friends) for our current ailments.

In having jettisoned nearly all of the deemed excess baggage and reversed the aging process like a skilled plastic surgeon, his efforts have been met with a begrudging slow hand clap.

For me, Emery reached a point where he himself didn't seem to believe some of the things he was spouting from the moment the words left his mouth, not because he wanted to be deceitful but rather more due to struggling with pressure. Like a submarine, Arteta has so far shown to function well when the pressure has been increased.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:39 pm

The guy has been awful, I don’t see how being lower in the league is progress to be honest.

The sides above us have matches in hand and can pull away as well, if they won their games we’d be 5 points behind 9th place with an inferior goal difference.

I don’t consider that progress at all, the odd win here and there doesn’t change my opinion either.

Just hope the club has some sense and get rid in the summer, I won’t hold my breath though, we all know incompetence seems to be rife.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby thebigbangtheo » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:00 pm

Özim wrote:The guy has been awful, I don’t see how being lower in the league is progress to be honest.

The sides above us have matches in hand and can pull away as well, if they won their games we’d be 5 points behind 9th place with an inferior goal difference.

I don’t consider that progress at all, the odd win here and there doesn’t change my opinion either.

Just hope the club has some sense and get rid in the summer, I won’t hold my breath though, we all know incompetence seems to be rife.


As you effectively state Ozim, your opinion is as equally valid as mine. That being the case and that you don't think there has been any progress under Arteta, are you of the opinion then that we have either regressed or stagnated, as it must be one of the three?
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:16 pm

thebigbangtheo wrote:
Özim wrote:The guy has been awful, I don’t see how being lower in the league is progress to be honest.

The sides above us have matches in hand and can pull away as well, if they won their games we’d be 5 points behind 9th place with an inferior goal difference.

I don’t consider that progress at all, the odd win here and there doesn’t change my opinion either.

Just hope the club has some sense and get rid in the summer, I won’t hold my breath though, we all know incompetence seems to be rife.


As you effectively state Ozim, your opinion is as equally valid as mine. That being the case and that you don't think there has been any progress under Arteta, are you of the opinion then that we have either regressed or stagnated, as it must be one of the three?


It’s tough to call as we’ve been truly awful this season, we’ve gone from a non existent attack but more solidity in defence but losing games, to an improvement in attack but regression in defence and winning one and losing the next. The errors are still there week in week out as well.

At best we’ve stagnated but our league position suggests we’ve regressed.

For me though the progress should be more tangible, just as it is at Everton with Ancelotti a club who actually started below us when Arteta and Ancelotti took over and have an inferior squad, even if i agreed with you and thought we’d had progressed it’s not even baby steps and in the end it’s not enough. For me it’s clear Arteta isn’t the right man for the job and the only reason we’re sticking with him is the incompetent people in charge don’t want to admit they’ve got it so wrong yet again.

In the end though, their stubbornness will mean more years in the doldrums for this club, but I guess none of them really care anyway.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:27 pm

We've improved on the goals conceded metric. Every other one has gotten worse. Fewer goals, fewer wins, more losses. Our momentum depends entirely on whether a couple of kids can work their magic on match day.

Liverpool and Chelsea have been trainwrecks this season. That's led to a 4th place spot opening up, which is being contested by West Ham and Everton. That alone should be telling of where our club is.

Emery was sacked because Top 6 was slipping away. Arteta OTOH has never even had us in Top 6.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Ach » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:31 pm

The improvements he's made are minuscule. The stuff that's got worse has been vast.

We're worse in the league. Shit football. No chance in Europe

He's got to go
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Phil71 » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:08 pm

He's going nowhere.

Get used to it.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Ach » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:26 pm

Özim wrote:
thebigbangtheo wrote:
Özim wrote:The guy has been awful, I don’t see how being lower in the league is progress to be honest.

The sides above us have matches in hand and can pull away as well, if they won their games we’d be 5 points behind 9th place with an inferior goal difference.

I don’t consider that progress at all, the odd win here and there doesn’t change my opinion either.

Just hope the club has some sense and get rid in the summer, I won’t hold my breath though, we all know incompetence seems to be rife.


As you effectively state Ozim, your opinion is as equally valid as mine. That being the case and that you don't think there has been any progress under Arteta, are you of the opinion then that we have either regressed or stagnated, as it must be one of the three?


It’s tough to call as we’ve been truly awful this season, we’ve gone from a non existent attack but more solidity in defence but losing games, to an improvement in attack but regression in defence and winning one and losing the next. The errors are still there week in week out as well.

At best we’ve stagnated but our league position suggests we’ve regressed.

For me though the progress should be more tangible, just as it is at Everton with Ancelotti a club who actually started below us when Arteta and Ancelotti took over and have an inferior squad, even if i agreed with you and thought we’d had progressed it’s not even baby steps and in the end it’s not enough. For me it’s clear Arteta isn’t the right man for the job and the only reason we’re sticking with him is the incompetent people in charge don’t want to admit they’ve got it so wrong yet again.

In the end though, their stubbornness will mean more years in the doldrums for this club, but I guess none of them really care anyway.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby thebigbangtheo » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:48 pm

Özim wrote:
thebigbangtheo wrote:
Özim wrote:The guy has been awful, I don’t see how being lower in the league is progress to be honest.

The sides above us have matches in hand and can pull away as well, if they won their games we’d be 5 points behind 9th place with an inferior goal difference.

I don’t consider that progress at all, the odd win here and there doesn’t change my opinion either.

Just hope the club has some sense and get rid in the summer, I won’t hold my breath though, we all know incompetence seems to be rife.


As you effectively state Ozim, your opinion is as equally valid as mine. That being the case and that you don't think there has been any progress under Arteta, are you of the opinion then that we have either regressed or stagnated, as it must be one of the three?


It’s tough to call as we’ve been truly awful this season, we’ve gone from a non existent attack but more solidity in defence but losing games, to an improvement in attack but regression in defence and winning one and losing the next. The errors are still there week in week out as well.

At best we’ve stagnated but our league position suggests we’ve regressed.

For me though the progress should be more tangible, just as it is at Everton with Ancelotti a club who actually started below us when Arteta and Ancelotti took over and have an inferior squad, even if i agreed with you and thought we’d had progressed it’s not even baby steps and in the end it’s not enough. For me it’s clear Arteta isn’t the right man for the job and the only reason we’re sticking with him is the incompetent people in charge don’t want to admit they’ve got it so wrong yet again.

In the end though, their stubbornness will mean more years in the doldrums for this club, but I guess none of them really care anyway.


I do have an understanding of your points of view and why I stated in my original post that I wasn't in agreement with some of our managers actions, and rightly or wrongly feel that we could have done more in averting some of the defeats we've suffered as well as gained two or three more wins.

As a former coach, the tendency to focus more on things relating to performances rather than tables is still part of my football psyche I suppose, and only really being bothered about them towards the end of the season. So if I don't put too much emphasis on the table regards measuring the teams progress you'll just have to forgive me on that.

Maybe my using of the Imperial inch to gauge our movement forward was too adventurous given VAR could measure it to the width of a hair growing on a fly's arse no doubt.

Anyway, that you found a degree of difficulty in clearly declaring that we'd either stood still or gone backwards and that there should be more to evidence any defined movement forward, suggests a case for the forth option of don't know/not sure, wouldn't you say, instead of an outright denial of the teams progress because you don't like the manager?
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:50 pm

There absolutely has not been any net improvement under Arteta, the small improvement in our defending versus the absolute train wreck that has been our attack is proof of that. Green shoots of recovery in recent weeks, we played some decent football now that ESR is in the team but its a step forward then a step back.

So overall, we are in a worse position now than we were in when Arteta took over and its not like we just slipped here, we have been here for most of the season. Something is fundamentally wrong, its not 2 or 3 bad results on the bounce that put us here. As Ozim said, from a worse starting point Ancelotti has taken Everton further forward. Moyes came in, steadied the West Ham ship and has taken them forward. How are we worse this season than we were last ?

I see nothing whatsover to get excited about or look forward to, had Arteta been at least getting the players to play to their potential I would have no criticism of the guy, I don't expect him to be peak Wenger, over-achieving. But what we have seen is shocking for the most part.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:37 pm

I can't even say I really like our brand of football under Arteta either.

Its like Wengerball .......... but when it was his last few years and he was in decline, its not even peak Wengerball when it was good.

Ultra slow build up, sideways and back passing, not enough box penetration like good teams do, we tend to skirt around it.

The way we're playing now we'll be lucky to see top 4 ever again, on a good day we play like a top 8 team at best.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:42 pm

DG

Average shots on goal per match:

2020/21 - 5.44 (Arteta)
2019/20 - 10.68 (Emery/Arteta)
2018/19 - 12.28 (Emery)
2017/18 - 15.63 (Wenger)
2016/17 - 14.89 (Wenger last trophy)
2014/15 - 16.05 (signed Sanchez)
2012/13 - 15.71 (signed Giroud and Cazorla)
2009/10 - 17.36 (Wilshere back from Bolton loan)
2007/08 - 16.50 (signed Eduardo)

The Premier League website doesn't show full stats before 2006/07, but I remember in the games at Highbury with Wenger we would have 20 odd shots on goal pretty much every match. To go from the 20s down to 5 is an absolute liberty !
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:36 pm

theHotHead wrote:DG

Average shots on goal per match:

2020/21 - 5.44 (Arteta)
2019/20 - 10.68 (Emery/Arteta)
2018/19 - 12.28 (Emery)
2017/18 - 15.63 (Wenger)
2016/17 - 14.89 (Wenger last trophy)
2014/15 - 16.05 (signed Sanchez)
2012/13 - 15.71 (signed Giroud and Cazorla)
2009/10 - 17.36 (Wilshere back from Bolton loan)
2007/08 - 16.50 (signed Eduardo)

The Premier League website doesn't show full stats before 2006/07, but I remember in the games at Highbury with Wenger we would have 20 odd shots on goal pretty much every match. To go from the 20s down to 5 is an absolute liberty !

Bloody hell I never realized it was this bad. No wonder the football is unwatchable. But what is the reason? I attribute it to the decimation of our midfield since Wenger left. That final season we had Ozil, Ramsey, Wilshere, Cazorla, Xhaka. The season prior to that Rosicky. And suddenly nothing. They all leave and Guendozi and Torriera come in with loan deals for Ceballos and that other Spanish pubber.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Callum » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:21 pm

thebigbangtheo wrote:Well, I for one can see a slow but steady progression of the team under Arteta from that as it was when he took over.

That we are effectively only inching forward as opposed to taking leaps and bounds I can live with if ultimately those inches add up to a golden mile.

That I haven't agreed with some of his player assessments and decisions on formations and team selection has not then blinded me to the things that he has done right.

We don't seem to have a problem in accepting that our team is seriously ill, but some seem happy to have us spit out and refuse the medicine because it tastes rank. Well, right now, Arteta is the Sylvester Stallone character from the film 'Cobra' in being the cure (no starmandb, I'm not referring to Dr. Robert and friends) for our current ailments.

In having jettisoned nearly all of the deemed excess baggage and reversed the aging process like a skilled plastic surgeon, his efforts have been met with a begrudging slow hand clap.

For me, Emery reached a point where he himself didn't seem to believe some of the things he was spouting from the moment the words left his mouth, not because he wanted to be deceitful but rather more due to struggling with pressure. Like a submarine, Arteta has so far shown to function well when the pressure has been increased.

Great post.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Phil71 » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:35 pm

Callum wrote:
thebigbangtheo wrote:Well, I for one can see a slow but steady progression of the team under Arteta from that as it was when he took over.

That we are effectively only inching forward as opposed to taking leaps and bounds I can live with if ultimately those inches add up to a golden mile.

That I haven't agreed with some of his player assessments and decisions on formations and team selection has not then blinded me to the things that he has done right.

We don't seem to have a problem in accepting that our team is seriously ill, but some seem happy to have us spit out and refuse the medicine because it tastes rank. Well, right now, Arteta is the Sylvester Stallone character from the film 'Cobra' in being the cure (no starmandb, I'm not referring to Dr. Robert and friends) for our current ailments.

In having jettisoned nearly all of the deemed excess baggage and reversed the aging process like a skilled plastic surgeon, his efforts have been met with a begrudging slow hand clap.

For me, Emery reached a point where he himself didn't seem to believe some of the things he was spouting from the moment the words left his mouth, not because he wanted to be deceitful but rather more due to struggling with pressure. Like a submarine, Arteta has so far shown to function well when the pressure has been increased.

Great post.


Yeah I generally agree.

I'm far from delighted with the way things are going but it's nowhere near as bad as some are saying. I think some people just don't like him and never will for whatever reason.
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