Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

[DiamondGooner]

What I don't get is that people moan that 3-4-3 is a defensive tactic?

Well yes it can be but its all how you play it, I think people see 3 atb and immediately think 5-2-3 but its not, we play our WB's very high up, or they think "no need for 3 CB's" but when your WB's play like wingers or are wingers like Saka, you're actually playing with 3 defenders, not 4 defenders like you do with 4 atb.

It also allows us to overload the flanks making it an offensive formation if done right, I also like that when we lose the ball we tend to mug it off the opposition quite quick because they literally can't break down our defense.

As we saw with Luiz, Arteta (being the deep mid he is) is a fan of this quarter back style playing out from the back and spraying the ball forward, when we do that we're already cutting out 2 CM's let alone if we fielded 3.

He may idealistically want 4-3-3 possession but ironically, everything that's important to him, the playing from deep and out from the back, the solid defense etc is all best done with a 3-4-3.

I think he needs to realise that and become his own man, stop trying to copy Pep and go his own way.

Pep does play out from the back but he doesn't have an obsession with Deep lying play makers and defense, he also prefers his possession higher up the pitch not possession through his defenders, there are some key differences, I think Arteta may have realised that tonight.

[swipe right]

What I don't get is that people moan that 3-4-3 is a defensive tactic?

Well yes it can be but its all how you play it, I think people see 3 atb and immediately think 5-2-3 but its not, we play our WB's very high up, or they think "no need for 3 CB's" but when your WB's play like wingers or are wingers like Saka, you're actually playing with 3 defenders, not 4 defenders like you do with 4 atb.

It also allows us to overload the flanks making it an offensive formation if done right, I also like that when we lose the ball we tend to mug it off the opposition quite quick because they literally can't break down our defense.

As we saw with Luiz, Arteta (being the deep mid he is) is a fan of this quarter back style playing out from the back and spraying the ball forward, when we do that we're already cutting out 2 CM's let alone if we fielded 3.

He may idealistically want 4-3-3 possession but ironically, everything that's important to him, the playing from deep and out from the back, the solid defense etc is all best done with a 3-4-3.

I think he needs to realise that and become his own man, stop trying to copy Pep and go his own way.

Pep does play out from the back but he doesn't have an obsession with Deep lying play makers and defense, he also prefers his possession higher up the pitch not possession through his defenders, there are some key differences, I think Arteta may have realised that tonight.

433 is more attacking by virtue of the fact that it allows you to play higher up the pitch. It also creates more movement particularly as the third midfielder has more license to remain in an offensive position between the opposition defense and midfield. It’s creates more chances. When you see our current setup you see two flat lines. A defensive line and an attacking line. We are easy to defend against for a team that sits deep like Leicester. Every team that plays us now onwards will look at Rogers tactic and look to replicate.

[DiamondGooner]

433 is more attacking by virtue of the fact that it allows you to play higher up the pitch. It also creates more movement particularly as the third midfielder has more license to remain in an offensive position between the opposition defense and midfield. It’s creates more chances. When you see our current setup you see two flat lines. A defensive line and an attacking line. We are easy to defend against for a team that sits deep like Leicester. Every team that plays us now onwards will look at Rogers tactic and look to replicate.

Well for once you're not talking total bollocks and that was a pretty good summary, however, the bits I'd adjust or challenge you on are these ..........

AFC in our current squad play better with two compact lines, that's something I've clearly noticed, when we play 4-3-3 and you have that 3 tier set up all we do is pass backwards, pass to the side and keep doing it till we run out of ideas.
The reason we run out of ideas is because we don't have any CAM's, no Cazorlas, no Ozil's, no Rosicky's, no Nasri's, no Hlebs ......... not even Jack Wilshere, nada, no one.
So the result of that is we just pass it back to defense before we end up just wasting our opportunities.

With the 3-4-3 we've beaten teams who park the bus before, we just keep hammering them till we nick a goal, even if it takes 70mins, because as soon as we get that one goal its game over, they either come at us but can't beat our 3atb defense and get countered, or just sit back and accept their fate, its actually a really nice trap / tactic that the elite flashy teams don't have the patience or discipline for because they just buy in skill so don't need to do it.

All our talent is on the wings, strikers and deep mids, we have no CAM's to speak of, you can't build a team around what we don't have, that is why I'm so adamant about not using the 4-3-3.
If we bought Aouar, had Ozil and Coutinho then i'd say have at it, but we didn't so we have to build the team around what we've actually got.

[swipe right]

433 is more attacking by virtue of the fact that it allows you to play higher up the pitch. It also creates more movement particularly as the third midfielder has more license to remain in an offensive position between the opposition defense and midfield. It’s creates more chances. When you see our current setup you see two flat lines. A defensive line and an attacking line. We are easy to defend against for a team that sits deep like Leicester. Every team that plays us now onwards will look at Rogers tactic and look to replicate.

Well for once you're not talking total bollocks and that was a pretty good summary, however, the bits I'd adjust or challenge you on are these ..........

AFC in our current squad play better with two compact lines, that's something I've clearly noticed, when we play 4-3-3 and you have that 3 tier set up all we do is pass backwards, pass to the side and keep doing it till we run out of ideas.
The reason we run out of ideas is because we don't have any CAM's, no Cazorlas, no Ozil's, no Rosicky's, no Nasri's, no Hlebs ......... not even Jack Wilshere, nada, no one.
So the result of that is we just pass it back to defense before we end up just wasting our opportunities.

With the 3-4-3 we've beaten teams who park the bus before, we just keep hammering them till we nick a goal, even if it takes 70mins, because as soon as we get that one goal its game over, they either come at us but can't beat our 3atb defense and get countered, or just sit back and accept their fate, its actually a really nice trap / tactic that the elite flashy teams don't have the patience or discipline for because they just buy in skill so don't need to do it.

All our talent is on the wings, strikers and deep mids, we have no CAM's to speak of, you can't build a team around what we don't have, that is why I'm so adamant about not using the 4-3-3.
If we bought Aouar, had Ozil and Coutinho then i'd say have at it, but we didn't so we have to build the team around what we've actually got.

I would challenge the notion that we have talent on the wings. The only one is Saka who seems to fit just about anywhere.

It is much harder to create chances from the wing. Why? Firstly, it is easier to mark a player on the wing since the edge of the pitch gives him less space to operate. It is also a longer route to the goal distance wise means you have to have really powerful players on the flank to get behind the defense. Think peak Bale as an example. We don’t have such players. You also need a physically dominating CF like a giroud or his superior version Halaand or Ibra. Again we don’t have a player who can get first to a cross.

When Wenger used to play 433 it would be typically with 2 strikers and a central midfielder on the opposite end. RVP, Walcott and Nasri/Arshavin. With the midfielder dropping deeper when necessary to add numbers. I’d like to see Arteta try that.

For example,
Martineli— Auba— Saka
Cebalos/Willock—Xhaka—Partey

[theHotHead]

Commentator said we are playing a back four against these part timers

Back 5

Yes typo

[theHotHead]

Do we look better or you just saying that because you wanted 3-4-3? Don't know exactly what looks better in this half so far.

yeah im not sure what looks better either. we've been poor imo.

2-0 by half time looks good to me.

The only reason I want 3-4-3 is because we're better with it.

There is no formation I'm stuck on, I want what suits the players.

We have wide players, strikers and Arteta insists we playy out from the back plus we had to stabilize defense and we have no CAM's.

Anyone who wants 4-3-3 and is too stupid especially after Rapid and Leicester to not see we're sh*t playing possession football can just fk off tbf, I'm not wasting my time anymore explaining things all week just to see it happen (Leciester) while I'm stating the fkin obvious.

The scoreline flatters the performance. Much better second half but that first half was absolute dross

[theHotHead]

The Dundalk game is useless for any tactical analyses.

You take it for what it is.

However we can look back on City, Liverpool x2, Chelsea and an FA cup.

How's that?

Yeah let's talk about 26 vs. 64 shots in 4 games. I don't think any further discussion is necessary.

You mean those games we won ........... ok then.

I'll have my and eat it thanks.

We were lucky and had the most inform keeper in the world in goal. The Chelsea game is the only one we deserved to win, but even in that we had a lot of luck with the ref and injuries.

Agreed, hoping top teams have off days and our luck is in is not sustainable. Plus we need to beat those teams in the league nit just cup games where their focus might be elsewhere.

[theHotHead]

5 defenders against Dundalk at home. Honestly I respect if you support this tactic. But the weirdos I don’t get is the ones who think he gonna change. Today he didn’t even have enough Cbs and put xhaka as cb against Dundalk at home. But somehow soon he is gonna change right? I’m telling you right now. 3 months from now 80% of the forum will share my views that he is not the man

Time will tell.

I know Arteta has the urge to play 4-3-3 possession because he grew under Pep, but he has to realise, Pep has City money and a City squad, Arteta is Arsenal manager with Arsenal level players and an Arsenal level budget.

I'm sick of us feigning to play like an elite team when we don't have the tools, Wenger became a victim of that, it was a fine philosophy when Arsenal had one of the best teams in the Prem, not so much when the other top 4 bought just as good if not better players.

DG I am not trying to attack you here but come on mate. Teams with less resources and worse players than us are playing good football, I am talking teams outside the top 6.

It is wholly inaccurate to say this has anything to do with money and budgets.

[swipe right]

Do we look better or you just saying that because you wanted 3-4-3? Don't know exactly what looks better in this half so far.

yeah im not sure what looks better either. we've been poor imo.

2-0 by half time looks good to me.

The only reason I want 3-4-3 is because we're better with it.

There is no formation I'm stuck on, I want what suits the players.

We have wide players, strikers and Arteta insists we playy out from the back plus we had to stabilize defense and we have no CAM's.

Anyone who wants 4-3-3 and is too stupid especially after Rapid and Leicester to not see we're sh*t playing possession football can just fk off tbf, I'm not wasting my time anymore explaining things all week just to see it happen (Leciester) while I'm stating the fkin obvious.

The scoreline flatters the performance. Much better second half but that first half was absolute dross

We had 5 good minutes against a team that is not even championship level.

[Power n Glory]

What I don't get is that people moan that 3-4-3 is a defensive tactic?

Well yes it can be but its all how you play it, I think people see 3 atb and immediately think 5-2-3 but its not, we play our WB's very high up, or they think "no need for 3 CB's" but when your WB's play like wingers or are wingers like Saka, you're actually playing with 3 defenders, not 4 defenders like you do with 4 atb.

It also allows us to overload the flanks making it an offensive formation if done right, I also like that when we lose the ball we tend to mug it off the opposition quite quick because they literally can't break down our defense.

As we saw with Luiz, Arteta (being the deep mid he is) is a fan of this quarter back style playing out from the back and spraying the ball forward, when we do that we're already cutting out 2 CM's let alone if we fielded 3.

He may idealistically want 4-3-3 possession but ironically, everything that's important to him, the playing from deep and out from the back, the solid defense etc is all best done with a 3-4-3.

I think he needs to realise that and become his own man, stop trying to copy Pep and go his own way.

Pep does play out from the back but he doesn't have an obsession with Deep lying play makers and defense, he also prefers his possession higher up the pitch not possession through his defenders, there are some key differences, I think Arteta may have realised that tonight.

433 is more attacking by virtue of the fact that it allows you to play higher up the pitch. It also creates more movement particularly as the third midfielder has more license to remain in an offensive position between the opposition defense and midfield. It’s creates more chances. When you see our current setup you see two flat lines. A defensive line and an attacking line. We are easy to defend against for a team that sits deep like Leicester. Every team that plays us now onwards will look at Rogers tactic and look to replicate.

It all depends on how it's being used and the opposition because it wasn't more offensive against Leicester. Our 3 CM's sat back so we had nothing going down the middle and in the final third.

Yesterday, despite having only two CM's in the 3-4-3, Willock was able to attack the box more whilst Elneny was the more conservative and defensive CM.

All depends on how the opposition set up and how aggressive we are with our attacks. It was still a fluid formation because our wingbacks push up to attack and even the left CB pushes up which is why we tend to play Tierney or Kola. Whatever the formation, in attack it tends to turn into a 2-3-5 if we're dominating possession like we did yesterday. Pepe and Reiss were able to play a lot closer to the striker and Willock pushing up more along with AMN sometimes coming infield helped build more connections. Attack didn't look as disjointed as it usually would..

[swipe right]

What I don't get is that people moan that 3-4-3 is a defensive tactic?

Well yes it can be but its all how you play it, I think people see 3 atb and immediately think 5-2-3 but its not, we play our WB's very high up, or they think "no need for 3 CB's" but when your WB's play like wingers or are wingers like Saka, you're actually playing with 3 defenders, not 4 defenders like you do with 4 atb.

It also allows us to overload the flanks making it an offensive formation if done right, I also like that when we lose the ball we tend to mug it off the opposition quite quick because they literally can't break down our defense.

As we saw with Luiz, Arteta (being the deep mid he is) is a fan of this quarter back style playing out from the back and spraying the ball forward, when we do that we're already cutting out 2 CM's let alone if we fielded 3.

He may idealistically want 4-3-3 possession but ironically, everything that's important to him, the playing from deep and out from the back, the solid defense etc is all best done with a 3-4-3.

I think he needs to realise that and become his own man, stop trying to copy Pep and go his own way.

Pep does play out from the back but he doesn't have an obsession with Deep lying play makers and defense, he also prefers his possession higher up the pitch not possession through his defenders, there are some key differences, I think Arteta may have realised that tonight.

433 is more attacking by virtue of the fact that it allows you to play higher up the pitch. It also creates more movement particularly as the third midfielder has more license to remain in an offensive position between the opposition defense and midfield. It’s creates more chances. When you see our current setup you see two flat lines. A defensive line and an attacking line. We are easy to defend against for a team that sits deep like Leicester. Every team that plays us now onwards will look at Rogers tactic and look to replicate.

It all depends on how it's being used and the opposition because it wasn't more offensive against Leicester. Our 3 CM's sat back so we had nothing going down the middle and in the final third.

Yesterday, despite having only two CM's in the 3-4-3, Willock was able to attack the box more whilst Elneny was the more conservative and defensive CM.

All depends on how the opposition set up and how aggressive we are with our attacks. It was still a fluid formation because our wingbacks push up to attack and even the left CB pushes up which is why we tend to play Tierney or Kola. Whatever the formation, in attack it tends to turn into a 2-3-5 if we're dominating possession like we did yesterday. Pepe and Reiss were able to play a lot closer to the striker and Willock pushing up more along with AMN sometimes coming infield helped build more connections. Attack didn't look as disjointed as it usually would..

Mate yesterday was the exception not the rule. We are not going to play that level of opposition every week unless we drop down to League One.

[Power n Glory]

What I don't get is that people moan that 3-4-3 is a defensive tactic?

Well yes it can be but its all how you play it, I think people see 3 atb and immediately think 5-2-3 but its not, we play our WB's very high up, or they think "no need for 3 CB's" but when your WB's play like wingers or are wingers like Saka, you're actually playing with 3 defenders, not 4 defenders like you do with 4 atb.

It also allows us to overload the flanks making it an offensive formation if done right, I also like that when we lose the ball we tend to mug it off the opposition quite quick because they literally can't break down our defense.

As we saw with Luiz, Arteta (being the deep mid he is) is a fan of this quarter back style playing out from the back and spraying the ball forward, when we do that we're already cutting out 2 CM's let alone if we fielded 3.

He may idealistically want 4-3-3 possession but ironically, everything that's important to him, the playing from deep and out from the back, the solid defense etc is all best done with a 3-4-3.

I think he needs to realise that and become his own man, stop trying to copy Pep and go his own way.

Pep does play out from the back but he doesn't have an obsession with Deep lying play makers and defense, he also prefers his possession higher up the pitch not possession through his defenders, there are some key differences, I think Arteta may have realised that tonight.

433 is more attacking by virtue of the fact that it allows you to play higher up the pitch. It also creates more movement particularly as the third midfielder has more license to remain in an offensive position between the opposition defense and midfield. It’s creates more chances. When you see our current setup you see two flat lines. A defensive line and an attacking line. We are easy to defend against for a team that sits deep like Leicester. Every team that plays us now onwards will look at Rogers tactic and look to replicate.

It all depends on how it's being used and the opposition because it wasn't more offensive against Leicester. Our 3 CM's sat back so we had nothing going down the middle and in the final third.

Yesterday, despite having only two CM's in the 3-4-3, Willock was able to attack the box more whilst Elneny was the more conservative and defensive CM.

All depends on how the opposition set up and how aggressive we are with our attacks. It was still a fluid formation because our wingbacks push up to attack and even the left CB pushes up which is why we tend to play Tierney or Kola. Whatever the formation, in attack it tends to turn into a 2-3-5 if we're dominating possession like we did yesterday. Pepe and Reiss were able to play a lot closer to the striker and Willock pushing up more along with AMN sometimes coming infield helped build more connections. Attack didn't look as disjointed as it usually would..

Mate yesterday was the exception not the rule. We are not going to play that level of opposition every week unless we drop down to League One.

Which is what I said as seen from the parts in bold. It depends on our opponents and how we approach the game. 4-3-3 or 3-4-3...it doesn't matter which if you don't have possession or the players can't push into the opponent's box which is what we saw against Leicester City.

[Salibatelli]

I don’t think we can take much from yesterday’s game, we were playing a bunch of part timers, these are the kind of games you usually win easily.

What we’ve seen is that against decent sides we’re toothless, yesterday’s game doesn’t disprove this, it took us 42 minutes to score, that’s pretty poor to be honest.

[Power n Glory]

I don’t think we can take much from yesterday’s game, we were playing a bunch of part timers, these are the kind of games you usually win easily.

What we’ve seen is that against decent sides we’re toothless, yesterday’s game doesn’t disprove this, it took us 42 minutes to score, that’s pretty poor to be honest.

You we can't take much from the game but you have taken something from the game. If we smash them in means nothing but struggle to score or lose and you'll take note of it.

[Santi]

Well I think what he meant was that there wasn't anything to disprove what we've already seen in recent games anyway, so even if you were to take something away from it, it wasn't really any better.

End of the day we got the win, scored a few goals and rested a few players. Doesn't mean anything for Utd other than a bit of a confidence boost, let's hope it helps.