Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:46 am

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:^ we’ve already improved the attack this season from a poor start.
Over the last 2 months we’ve been one of the most creative teams in the league.
Some of the football has been very good. Very entertaining to watch.
Still in patches, granted, 20-25 minutes here and there, but it’s clear it’s there.

Jay, sit down with your selective stats.


Nothing to do with being selective.
You made out that the manager can’t get the team playing creatively whilst maintaining the defence.
That is not true.
He can, and has.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Ach » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:50 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Goonerred wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Hey man, we're 5th at the moment. Can't really knock it. The performances haven't been the most eye catching and we still have some players looking below par. Attack needs a lot of work still. But we're 5th. If we can improve in other areas, who knows where we could end up.

That's what I thought, if we're fifth on the same points as 4th not playing that well, where will we be if we gain a bit more cohesion and consistency?

See this is where I think you and PnG are not looking at this in a realistic way. This is the best Arteta has to offer, he has not demonstrated at any point he is capable of us playing better football. He has hit his ceiling. If he tweaks our attack our defence will suffer.

I think you are both "hoping" he can improve us offensively, but I see no reason for this hope, he has decimated our attacking capacity for 2 seasons now!! For me its more of a case of his luck has to run out, you can't keep playing shit and scraping victories


So are you not hoping we improve? Regardless of circumstances, I hope each match will be better than the last. It hasn't been enjoyable to watch but credit where it's due. I wouldn't have thought we'd be close to a 4th this season but we are. We're level on points with West Ham who are 4th. It might be short lived but I'm taking the good with the bad. Only thing we have is hope and if we're talking realism, it seems unrealistic to expect the Board to sack Arteta this season. I'm one of his biggest critics but I'm trying to be fair as well.

PnG, for me, when I see "if we can improve", I wonder, how?? We look at potential, we look at ceilings, we look at what has come before and the likelihood of something different happening.

I "hope" we finish top 4, I don't have confidence that we will, I have not seen anything from Arteta that can provide the improvements you are hoping for. We have been here before with Arteta. Sure, he has the ability to get the team to defend, we saw that when he first joined. What we also saw was the knock on effect of Arteta's decision making and system which was - the decimation of our attack! When Arteta made an attempt to improve our attack our defending suffered.

For me, at this point, Arteta in 2 years has not been able to provide a cohesive and effective attack that works effectively alongside good overall team defending. We defend well but we also don't create enough.

Yup. Been saying it all along. Improving one area of the team to the detriment of another is not improving at all

We've seen it all this season. Barely scored. 15 goals in 13 games is horrific. Minus GD.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:18 pm

According to Jay we ARE playing creatively. We sit 7th for xG, for this season. Last season we finished 10th !!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:21 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Goonerred wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Hey man, we're 5th at the moment. Can't really knock it. The performances haven't been the most eye catching and we still have some players looking below par. Attack needs a lot of work still. But we're 5th. If we can improve in other areas, who knows where we could end up.

That's what I thought, if we're fifth on the same points as 4th not playing that well, where will we be if we gain a bit more cohesion and consistency?

See this is where I think you and PnG are not looking at this in a realistic way. This is the best Arteta has to offer, he has not demonstrated at any point he is capable of us playing better football. He has hit his ceiling. If he tweaks our attack our defence will suffer.

I think you are both "hoping" he can improve us offensively, but I see no reason for this hope, he has decimated our attacking capacity for 2 seasons now!! For me its more of a case of his luck has to run out, you can't keep playing shit and scraping victories


So are you not hoping we improve? Regardless of circumstances, I hope each match will be better than the last. It hasn't been enjoyable to watch but credit where it's due. I wouldn't have thought we'd be close to a 4th this season but we are. We're level on points with West Ham who are 4th. It might be short lived but I'm taking the good with the bad. Only thing we have is hope and if we're talking realism, it seems unrealistic to expect the Board to sack Arteta this season. I'm one of his biggest critics but I'm trying to be fair as well.

PnG, for me, when I see "if we can improve", I wonder, how?? We look at potential, we look at ceilings, we look at what has come before and the likelihood of something different happening.

I "hope" we finish top 4, I don't have confidence that we will, I have not seen anything from Arteta that can provide the improvements you are hoping for. We have been here before with Arteta. Sure, he has the ability to get the team to defend, we saw that when he first joined. What we also saw was the knock on effect of Arteta's decision making and system which was - the decimation of our attack! When Arteta made an attempt to improve our attack our defending suffered.

For me, at this point, Arteta in 2 years has not been able to provide a cohesive and effective attack that works effectively alongside good overall team defending. We defend well but we also don't create enough.


I also think about how we can improve and still believe Arteta isn't getting the best out of the team. If we're talking ceilings and potential, looking at the players we have, I wouldn't say he's maxed out their potential. If I believed this is the best he can do with what he has, then a change of manager would probably be pointless. It's would more so be a recruitment and resources problem and even if that were the case, we'd have to wait and see what happens in each transfer window.

But in terms of potential, there are probably 4 or 5 players that have hit their ceiling but the majority of the squad is still young and developing. For example, a player you rate but I don't ( Odegaard), you say he needs more runners around him to get the best out of him. That may be true and we could potentially put more runners ahead of him to get the best out of him. Which brings me to Martinelli and Pepe. We haven't seen much of either player this season and I wouldn't say we've seen the very best of them either.

There are plenty of different combinations and set ups Arteta. A positive for this season was when he dropped Odegaard for Lacazette and went with two forwards up front with Laca dropping more in between the lines. I never would have thought he'd try that set up. If he continues to try different things to get the best out of his players, then great. I'm more optimistic when I know the coach is willing to change a system when things aren't working. I fall on the pessimistic side when I see a coach try the same thing week in week out despite results showing it doesn't work and numerous players under performing. For example, if Arteta decides to go back to using Odergaard regularly, we still look poor, results start falling away but the manager persists with the same set up or uses similar types of players in positions that doesn't address the initial problem, that's when I lose patience.

I also feel like there are plenty of players that are not playing anywhere near to their potential. I also feel like Arteta's chopping and changing are not proactive tactical changes, they are more the moves of a man desperate to find a solution, its trial and error and I can't get down with that.


As said, we're 5th and not far off 4th. If it's luck, he'll be found out soon enough. But if it's not and then we'll at least see some form of consistency with results.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Goonerred » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:09 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Goonerred wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Hey man, we're 5th at the moment. Can't really knock it. The performances haven't been the most eye catching and we still have some players looking below par. Attack needs a lot of work still. But we're 5th. If we can improve in other areas, who knows where we could end up.

That's what I thought, if we're fifth on the same points as 4th not playing that well, where will we be if we gain a bit more cohesion and consistency?

See this is where I think you and PnG are not looking at this in a realistic way. This is the best Arteta has to offer, he has not demonstrated at any point he is capable of us playing better football. He has hit his ceiling. If he tweaks our attack our defence will suffer.

I think you are both "hoping" he can improve us offensively, but I see no reason for this hope, he has decimated our attacking capacity for 2 seasons now!! For me its more of a case of his luck has to run out, you can't keep playing shit and scraping victories


So are you not hoping we improve? Regardless of circumstances, I hope each match will be better than the last. It hasn't been enjoyable to watch but credit where it's due. I wouldn't have thought we'd be close to a 4th this season but we are. We're level on points with West Ham who are 4th. It might be short lived but I'm taking the good with the bad. Only thing we have is hope and if we're talking realism, it seems unrealistic to expect the Board to sack Arteta this season. I'm one of his biggest critics but I'm trying to be fair as well.

PnG, for me, when I see "if we can improve", I wonder, how?? We look at potential, we look at ceilings, we look at what has come before and the likelihood of something different happening.

I "hope" we finish top 4, I don't have confidence that we will, I have not seen anything from Arteta that can provide the improvements you are hoping for. We have been here before with Arteta. Sure, he has the ability to get the team to defend, we saw that when he first joined. What we also saw was the knock on effect of Arteta's decision making and system which was - the decimation of our attack! When Arteta made an attempt to improve our attack our defending suffered.

For me, at this point, Arteta in 2 years has not been able to provide a cohesive and effective attack that works effectively alongside good overall team defending. We defend well but we also don't create enough.


I also think about how we can improve and still believe Arteta isn't getting the best out of the team. If we're talking ceilings and potential, looking at the players we have, I wouldn't say he's maxed out their potential. If I believed this is the best he can do with what he has, then a change of manager would probably be pointless. It's would more so be a recruitment and resources problem and even if that were the case, we'd have to wait and see what happens in each transfer window.

But in terms of potential, there are probably 4 or 5 players that have hit their ceiling but the majority of the squad is still young and developing. For example, a player you rate but I don't ( Odegaard), you say he needs more runners around him to get the best out of him. That may be true and we could potentially put more runners ahead of him to get the best out of him. Which brings me to Martinelli and Pepe. We haven't seen much of either player this season and I wouldn't say we've seen the very best of them either.

There are plenty of different combinations and set ups Arteta. A positive for this season was when he dropped Odegaard for Lacazette and went with two forwards up front with Laca dropping more in between the lines. I never would have thought he'd try that set up. If he continues to try different things to get the best out of his players, then great. I'm more optimistic when I know the coach is willing to change a system when things aren't working. I fall on the pessimistic side when I see a coach try the same thing week in week out despite results showing it doesn't work and numerous players under performing. For example, if Arteta decides to go back to using Odergaard regularly, we still look poor, results start falling away but the manager persists with the same set up or uses similar types of players in positions that doesn't address the initial problem, that's when I lose patience.

I also feel like there are plenty of players that are not playing anywhere near to their potential. I also feel like Arteta's chopping and changing are not proactive tactical changes, they are more the moves of a man desperate to find a solution, its trial and error and I can't get down with that.


As said, we're 5th and not far off 4th. If it's luck, he'll be found out soon enough. But if it's not and then we'll at least see some form of consistency with results.


Exactly.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:41 pm

theHotHead wrote:According to Jay we ARE playing creatively. We sit 7th for xG, for this season. Last season we finished 10th !!


Yes and it’s 4th for xG since this opening 3 games, which is the creative improvement I told you about.
We’ve been excellent going forward in patches in quite a few games.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:36 pm

theHotHead wrote:According to Jay we ARE playing creatively. We sit 7th for xG, for this season. Last season we finished 10th !!

Artful troll he is.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:01 am

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:According to Jay we ARE playing creatively. We sit 7th for xG, for this season. Last season we finished 10th !!


Yes and it’s 4th for xG since this opening 3 games, which is the creative improvement I told you about.
We’ve been excellent going forward in patches in quite a few games.

Jay, excellent in patches going forward, awful in much larger patches going forward.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:46 pm

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:According to Jay we ARE playing creatively. We sit 7th for xG, for this season. Last season we finished 10th !!


Yes and it’s 4th for xG since this opening 3 games, which is the creative improvement I told you about.
We’ve been excellent going forward in patches in quite a few games.

Jay, excellent in patches going forward, awful in much larger patches going forward.


That's fair, but we CAN do it.
The consistency needs to come to be happy about it, but I am more positive than ever that the main issues are being addressed (so far). The next couple of windows are very important, as is the continued development of our young players.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby firfi » Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:20 pm

No idea where u get ur stats mate , but ur very wrong we're literally mid table for expected points and shit while spending the most out of any club in the world.HOW IS THAT PROGRESS i really wanna know. We have no style our goals have come mostly from set pieces and from pressing the enemy team. Tonight we're gonna be setup to defend ourselves like we're playing against prime Barca trust me vs poor hurt United and in the end they're gonna beat us by 1 goal and we're gonna say it was close and shit.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:13 pm

firfi wrote:No idea where u get ur stats mate , but ur very wrong we're literally mid table for expected points and shit while spending the most out of any club in the world.HOW IS THAT PROGRESS i really wanna know. We have no style our goals have come mostly from set pieces and from pressing the enemy team. Tonight we're gonna be setup to defend ourselves like we're playing against prime Barca trust me vs poor hurt United and in the end they're gonna beat us by 1 goal and we're gonna say it was close and shit.

Wowsers, you called it!!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Nuggets » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:53 pm

firfi wrote:No idea where u get ur stats mate , but ur very wrong we're literally mid table for expected points and shit while spending the most out of any club in the world.HOW IS THAT PROGRESS i really wanna know. We have no style our goals have come mostly from set pieces and from pressing the enemy team. Tonight we're gonna be setup to defend ourselves like we're playing against prime Barca trust me vs poor hurt United and in the end they're gonna beat us by 1 goal and we're gonna say it was close and shit.

:clap: :hail:
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:23 pm

firfi wrote:No idea where u get ur stats mate , but ur very wrong we're literally mid table for expected points and shit while spending the most out of any club in the world.HOW IS THAT PROGRESS i really wanna know. We have no style our goals have come mostly from set pieces and from pressing the enemy team. Tonight we're gonna be setup to defend ourselves like we're playing against prime Barca trust me vs poor hurt United and in the end they're gonna beat us by 1 goal and we're gonna say it was close and shit.


The most important 'stat' - points.
We have 23 after 14 games.
After 14 games last year we had 14 points.

That to me is an improvement - where it matters.
We currently sit 1 point from 4th place - a position we all would have taken at this stage with 24 games left.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Hypergooner » Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:02 pm

Nuggets wrote:
firfi wrote:No idea where u get ur stats mate , but ur very wrong we're literally mid table for expected points and shit while spending the most out of any club in the world.HOW IS THAT PROGRESS i really wanna know. We have no style our goals have come mostly from set pieces and from pressing the enemy team. Tonight we're gonna be setup to defend ourselves like we're playing against prime Barca trust me vs poor hurt United and in the end they're gonna beat us by 1 goal and we're gonna say it was close and shit.

:clap: :hail:


Great call on this one. I do think we have a style emerging though. We are setting up as a counter attacking team with a high press, open expansive play that's narrow and pushes forward while sitting deep. How can you not see that?
Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:20 pm

Hypergooner wrote:
Nuggets wrote:
firfi wrote:No idea where u get ur stats mate , but ur very wrong we're literally mid table for expected points and shit while spending the most out of any club in the world.HOW IS THAT PROGRESS i really wanna know. We have no style our goals have come mostly from set pieces and from pressing the enemy team. Tonight we're gonna be setup to defend ourselves like we're playing against prime Barca trust me vs poor hurt United and in the end they're gonna beat us by 1 goal and we're gonna say it was close and shit.

:clap: :hail:


Great call on this one. I do think we have a style emerging though. We are setting up as a counter attacking team with a high press, open expansive play that's narrow and pushes forward while sitting deep. How can you not see that?


:lol:
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