Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

[Nuggets]

I don't always agree with Jayram but on this occasion I do.

I'm optimistic this will be the season Arteta tries to address our creativity issues. He's made us more competitive and harder to beat and the end of last season we were the second best team in the league results wise.

Ok, it wasn't pretty at times and the issues were glaring. With a fully fit Partey and the additions we've made so far I'm quietly optimistic about this season.

My biggest issue was how much deadwood we've been carrying and slowly but surely they are being weeded out.

Yes, there has also been mistakes here and there and that comes with any job. That said I like Mikel and I think this season he may start to show why so many people in the industry think so highly of him.

I really hope your right, time will tell.

[Ach]

Seen nothing to suggest anything will change but I'm ever optimistic

With no Europe and as embarrassing as that is, I always look to the good in every situation and no Europe means we have no reason not to go for the title.

Anything less is a failure

[theHotHead]

Alas I think Jay is right on this, they have backed their manager thus far ..... but a piece of me says they have a contingency plan if it goes tits up.

I absolutely see no point whatsoever. Arteta is firmly backed by the owner at the moment.
The players, owner and media seem to all be right behind him.

I just find it a bit weird that people keep going on about it when there is absolutely no chance of it happening right now..

Same as people that keep saying “Kroenke has to sell up. Lets force him to sell etc”.

People that used to call for wenger to be sacked from 2007.

I just think that we have all got to be realistic and honest to ourselves sometimes.

Comparisons to Wenger in 2007 aren't apt here. Wenger got CL football and developed young stars with a shoestring budget. No club would have sacked him then.

Arteta meanwhile has had his hand in the transfer kitty since he arrived, ignoring players we already have. During that time he's finished midtable twice, and been embarrassed in Europe twice.

The club has shown that it's not beyond making panicked decisions. If we start badly, the panic will spread because the amounts we've spent so far (I am still expecting one big transfer besides BW).

That’s what I am saying. People were calling for wenger to be sacked from 2007. There was no way he was going to be sacked back then but you still had fans tiring themselves about the whole thing. “Wenger out” blah blah..

Same with Arteta at the moment. The club seems to be right behind him and backing him. He has at least another half season to go.

So what I am asking is “Why are people even talking him being sacked before the season has even started”.
It not going to happen.

This is what I call “Making up unnecessary situations in order to outrage one’s self”.

It seems like people just want to be outraged for the sake of it.

What makes you think that if the ball hadn't begun rolling in 2007 that in 2017 Wenger would've been sacked ??? It took a noticeable bit of momentum for the hardcore (not diehard) to move across, it really started to swing when the Kroenke Out marches started (The Black Scarf Movement) and Wenger Out chants became more vociferous. Thats when the fights between factions kicked off. by then there was a 50/50 split, but ... it took time to get to that point, it started in 2007 though.

[theHotHead]

Alas I think Jay is right on this, they have backed their manager thus far ..... but a piece of me says they have a contingency plan if it goes tits up.

I absolutely see no point whatsoever. Arteta is firmly backed by the owner at the moment.
The players, owner and media seem to all be right behind him.

I just find it a bit weird that people keep going on about it when there is absolutely no chance of it happening right now..

Same as people that keep saying “Kroenke has to sell up. Lets force him to sell etc”.

People that used to call for wenger to be sacked from 2007.

I just think that we have all got to be realistic and honest to ourselves sometimes.

Because that's how you make change, first its a single voice, then a few, then it snowballs until the voices are loud enough not only to be heard but to have an affect. Jay was calling for Wenger to be sacked in 2007, I was calling for it in 2010/2011, if you wait for everyone to be on the same page it would take even longer for things to happen. People need to know that there is a large part of the fanbase that are not happy with the way things are, that "should" keep people honest and hopefully avoid lethargy. We need people to be on their toes.

If Arteta doesn't perform in the first few games the boos will ring out and he will immediately be under more pressure.

But you have got to surely guage the atmosphere around the club. What’s the mood like around Arteta according to the board and the players?
As long as the club and the players are behind the manager then everything else is just unrealistic outrage.

The mood at the moment says that the club and players still want to give Arteta another go. So some fans calling for him to be sacked right now before the season has even kicked off is proper wishful thinking.

Outraging one’s self for the sake of getting outraged.

Mate, the club and the players loved Wenger, that didn't stop the fanbase from turning super toxic and in the end the situation was untenable. The mood at the club is irrelevant, the mood of the fans is what matters and what counts.

[Goonerred]

No point in arguing for or against Arteta at this stage. He's going nowhere and we will start the season with him in charge. Wait to see how he gets on, because it probably won't be long before we start failing if we carry on as we were last season and I mean the whole season. If we start well and show promise, all well and good.

[theHotHead]

We can concentrate on the league and not be travelling mid week to play nothing matches.

I really don't know why some Arsenal fans think it is prestigious in any way to play Dundalk on a Thursday night.

Talk about missing the ENITRE point.

Those "nothing matches" get you to the Europa Quarter and Semi finals ......... you know, so we can actually win a trophy.

They're also great practice for our emerging youth and reserve players who don't get a look in for the Prem 1st team, you know, get the squad up to par ...... all good teams have a ready bench.

This is the equivalent of saying .......... "I don't want to play in the World Cup because Iran are rubbish, what's the point".

Dumbest comment of the week, should we not accept the CL just in case we'd have to play Rangers as well? yeah fk that, who needs the CL.

The WC comparison is not correct - because it is a premier tournament, not a secondary tournament.
It is equivalent to saying , 'I don;t want to play in a World Cup B league'
It's like saying to the England team, hey... if you play in the World Cup B league whilst you are trying to qualify for the Euro's you might be able to qualify for the world cup next year. You'll be playing San Marion Anguilla and the British Virgin Islands.

..and you missed the point.
Whilst we were toiling away playing Dundalk and Molde in the hope we would end up winning the whole thing eventually and getting to the top European table... we f***ked up our league form and wrote off any chance of getting top 4 and getting in the CL through that route.

Jay, its a secondary tournament with a bonafide European Trophy, of which we only have 2 in our history - and in this incarnation all of our peers have won it that have been it (except Spurs) but we haven't. So whilst I don't want us to be in the EL i would rather be in it than not in Europe at all. We are in no position to be turning our nose up against it.

It was different when we were in the CL, no chance of winning it but at least earning a decent wedge from participation. I'm not even sure I would accept CL participation and no hope of winning it, any competition we are in I expect is to have a chance of winning.

[theHotHead]

JayRam is talking himself right into another "Villarreal is a pub team and we'll beat them easy" scenario.

This won't end well if by Christmas we're outside of the top 4 again on our way to another slide.

You have your "No Europe" so I expect to go from 8th to 4th place season finish absolute minimum.

Anything like 6th or 7th is another abject failure, with no Europe to distract us by daring us to be a proper successfull club, the minimum requirement will be to jump up the Premier league, and not by just 1 -2 places but 3-5 places minimum.

........... I mean by not being in Europe, what else is there to do?

Sorry but you are talking gibberish.
Villareal are a poor side. We lost to a poor side that we should have beaten. So what? Happens.

I expect us to be outside the top 4 at Christmas. Top 6 is progress. I would expect us to be at least in touching distance of top 4 though.
Not said any more than that, so I am not sure what you are referring to when you say 'this won't end well'? What won't end well?

5th/6th and a chance of top4. That is what I have said.

Moving up a couple of places and being closer to top 4 till the end of the season will be easier for us now that we don;t have to play on Thursday nights.

Why are you setting up silly confrontation?
Is everything a pissing contest with you?

I agree with Jay, we should've beaten Villareal, the loss was down to the idiocy of Arteta and nothing more, with his stupid decisions across both legs.

I absolutely do not see Top 6 as progress though, top 6 is where we should've finished last season at a minimum, the fact Arteta ballsed up doesn't mean we reset expectations or starting points.

[theHotHead]

It seems to me that people are making an argument for Arteta because he was no worse than Emery. People forget, Emery finished 5th in his first season, compared to 8th for Arteta !! Just because Emery was shit in the second season - which seems to be the standard people are comparing Arteta to, doesn't mean its ok for Arteta to be shit !

Emery had a better squad than Wenger but performed worse than him ! Arteta had a better squad than both Emery AND Wenger and performed worse than both of them. How can anyone justify the benefits Arteta brings, what benefits ? Shit Wenger did more than Arteta.

[Dejan]

It seems to me that people are making an argument for Arteta because he was no worse than Emery. People forget, Emery finished 5th in his first season, compared to 8th for Arteta !! Just because Emery was shit in the second season - which seems to be the standard people are comparing Arteta to, doesn't mean its ok for Arteta to be shit !

Emery had a better squad than Wenger but performed worse than him ! Arteta had a better squad than both Emery AND Wenger and performed worse than both of them. How can anyone justify the benefits Arteta brings, what benefits ? Shit Wenger did more than Arteta.

Jep. This shouldnt be even a debate.
We have regressed.

[Nuggets]

It seems to me that people are making an argument for Arteta because he was no worse than Emery. People forget, Emery finished 5th in his first season, compared to 8th for Arteta !! Just because Emery was shit in the second season - which seems to be the standard people are comparing Arteta to, doesn't mean its ok for Arteta to be shit !

Emery had a better squad than Wenger but performed worse than him ! Arteta had a better squad than both Emery AND Wenger and performed worse than both of them. How can anyone justify the benefits Arteta brings, what benefits ? Shit Wenger did more than Arteta.

Jep. This shouldnt be even a debate.
We have regressed.

[Phil71]

It seems to me that people are making an argument for Arteta because he was no worse than Emery. People forget, Emery finished 5th in his first season, compared to 8th for Arteta !! Just because Emery was shit in the second season - which seems to be the standard people are comparing Arteta to, doesn't mean its ok for Arteta to be shit !

Emery had a better squad than Wenger but performed worse than him ! Arteta had a better squad than both Emery AND Wenger and performed worse than both of them. How can anyone justify the benefits Arteta brings, what benefits ? Shit Wenger did more than Arteta.

Wenger, toward the end of his tenure, was sailing a ship with holes in the bottom and a ragged crew. Emery took over that flagging ship & ragged crew and tried to make it work, but failed.

By the time Arteta took over the holes were bigger and the crew were tired, aged and in some cases mutinous. The ship had to be brought into a dry dock and repaired, and the crew changed. That takes time. But will be worth it in the end.

[theHotHead]

It seems to me that people are making an argument for Arteta because he was no worse than Emery. People forget, Emery finished 5th in his first season, compared to 8th for Arteta !! Just because Emery was shit in the second season - which seems to be the standard people are comparing Arteta to, doesn't mean its ok for Arteta to be shit !

Emery had a better squad than Wenger but performed worse than him ! Arteta had a better squad than both Emery AND Wenger and performed worse than both of them. How can anyone justify the benefits Arteta brings, what benefits ? Shit Wenger did more than Arteta.

Wenger, toward the end of his tenure, was sailing a ship with holes in the bottom and a ragged crew. Emery took over that flagging ship & ragged crew and tried to make it work, but failed.

By the time Arteta took over the holes were bigger and the crew were tired, aged and in some cases mutinous. The ship had to be brought into a dry dock and repaired, and the crew changed. That takes time. But will be worth it in the end.

Phil, what ragged crew ? I'll agree there were bigger holes, but they were easy holes to plug i.e. going from not paying any attention to defending (Wenger), to paying some mind to defending but insisting on suicidal playing out from the back (Emery). All any incoming manager needed to do was be less gung-ho and hey presto, those holes would mostly have been plugged. Please don't make out that open heart surgery was required.

The crew has mostly been changed, the only remnants from Wenger were Bellerin, Auba and Laca. All that needed to happen were 2 or 3 key additions and a less gung ho approach and we would have been challenging for top 4.

[jayramfootball]

Seen nothing to suggest anything will change but I'm ever optimistic

With no Europe and as embarrassing as that is, I always look to the good in every situation and no Europe means we have no reason not to go for the title.

Anything less is a failure

Your post here is a simple case of covering your bases in case we do well.
Win the title or we failed?
Get lost.

[jayramfootball]

It seems to me that people are making an argument for Arteta because he was no worse than Emery. People forget, Emery finished 5th in his first season, compared to 8th for Arteta !! Just because Emery was shit in the second season - which seems to be the standard people are comparing Arteta to, doesn't mean its ok for Arteta to be shit !

Emery had a better squad than Wenger but performed worse than him ! Arteta had a better squad than both Emery AND Wenger and performed worse than both of them. How can anyone justify the benefits Arteta brings, what benefits ? Shit Wenger did more than Arteta.

Wenger, toward the end of his tenure, was sailing a ship with holes in the bottom and a ragged crew. Emery took over that flagging ship & ragged crew and tried to make it work, but failed.

By the time Arteta took over the holes were bigger and the crew were tired, aged and in some cases mutinous. The ship had to be brought into a dry dock and repaired, and the crew changed. That takes time. But will be worth it in the end.

This is exactly the correct analogy.

[jayramfootball]

We can concentrate on the league and not be travelling mid week to play nothing matches.

I really don't know why some Arsenal fans think it is prestigious in any way to play Dundalk on a Thursday night.

Talk about missing the ENITRE point.

Those "nothing matches" get you to the Europa Quarter and Semi finals ......... you know, so we can actually win a trophy.

They're also great practice for our emerging youth and reserve players who don't get a look in for the Prem 1st team, you know, get the squad up to par ...... all good teams have a ready bench.

This is the equivalent of saying .......... "I don't want to play in the World Cup because Iran are rubbish, what's the point".

Dumbest comment of the week, should we not accept the CL just in case we'd have to play Rangers as well? yeah fk that, who needs the CL.

The WC comparison is not correct - because it is a premier tournament, not a secondary tournament.
It is equivalent to saying , 'I don;t want to play in a World Cup B league'
It's like saying to the England team, hey... if you play in the World Cup B league whilst you are trying to qualify for the Euro's you might be able to qualify for the world cup next year. You'll be playing San Marion Anguilla and the British Virgin Islands.

..and you missed the point.
Whilst we were toiling away playing Dundalk and Molde in the hope we would end up winning the whole thing eventually and getting to the top European table... we f***ked up our league form and wrote off any chance of getting top 4 and getting in the CL through that route.

Jay, its a secondary tournament with a bonafide European Trophy, of which we only have 2 in our history - and in this incarnation all of our peers have won it that have been it (except Spurs) but we haven't. So whilst I don't want us to be in the EL i would rather be in it than not in Europe at all. We are in no position to be turning our nose up against it.

It was different when we were in the CL, no chance of winning it but at least earning a decent wedge from participation. I'm not even sure I would accept CL participation and no hope of winning it, any competition we are in I expect is to have a chance of winning.

Bonifide in what way?
You mean official... Sure... So will the new third tier joke tournament be official.
But no trophy is really bonifide if a team who loses and gets relegated from one tournament not only enters a new lower level tournament but gets an advantage over the teams who have been slogging it out in the group stages .

As a showcase final it's fine, but the entire tournament is rather underwhelming to say the least. Is it nice to win it and have the silverware? Nice to add a count to our history. Sure. In years to come many will not even know how crap the tournament was but it will still be in the win column if you win it , so yeah it's nice.

Bonifide? Impressive? A big achievement? No.