Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby StLGooner » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:21 pm

Dejan wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Dejan wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
The XG and stats show a major improvement compared to Unai


This season, league only.

Under Unai: average Xg 1,36
Under Mikel: average Xg 1,26


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Take the average of Unai's last 5 games, you speng. Unai - 1.218. Arteta - 1.262. AND - averaging out xGs is not what PnG's comment is about. Its about having a greater xG than the opposing team in any given game and games under Arteta we are having a higher xG than the opponents more often - hence PnG's comment.


Why would you? Population size does not have to be equal, you "speng". Only taking the last 5 of unai is just manipulating statistics.

Under unai this season we have had a higher Xg goals than arteta. This cant be twisted, its a fact.

The only stat that matters though is the pts/game. Im interested to know that ratio of both managers.

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But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Marsbar100 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:24 pm

Arguing over the Xg stat, time for the forum to go Into liquidation
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Salibatelli » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:25 pm

StLGooner wrote:But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.


Quite the oppositve, it's much harder to have a higher ratio over a longer stretch of games than it is over a shorter number.

The facts are there though, 1 win, 3 draws and 1 defeat, that's not a lot different to what Emery was achieving despite people hyping Arteta up. If we play a bit better but get relegated performances won't matter at all.

What matters is results and if he can't get results, then he should be given the boot. We've got better players than many of the teams he's drawn with, Norwich, Bournemouth and Sheff Utd (a promoted team) and we should be beating them, saying our team is rubbish is an excuse because pound for pound we have more talent and those teams would happily take some of the players we have if they could afford them.

We're not a great team, far from it, but we're better than the results we're getting, on that basis Arteta is not doing a good job.
Last edited by Salibatelli on Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby StLGooner » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:29 pm

Özim wrote:
StLGooner wrote:But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.


Quite the oppositve, it's much harder to have a higher ration over a longer stretch of games than it is over a shorter number.

The facts are there though, 1 win, 3 draws and 1 defeat, that's not a lot different to what Emery was achieving despite people hyping Arteta up. If we play a bit better but get relegated performances won't matter at all.

What matters is results and if he can't get results, then he should be given the boot. We've got better players than many of the teams he's drawn with, Norwich, Bournemouth and Sheff Utd (a promoted team) and we should be beating them, saying out team is rubbish is an excuse because pound for pound we are more talent and those teams would happily take some of the players we have if they could afford them.

We're not a great team, far from it, but we're better than the results we're getting, on that basis Arteta is not doing a good job.




Right it could be a negative comparison as well, but either way, you're not making the comparison equal because Arteta simply hasn't managed enough.

Again though, it's just another useless stat that only makes it easier to confuse the illogical minded folks.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby StLGooner » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:30 pm

Marsbar100 wrote:Arguing over the Xg stat, time for the forum to go Into liquidation



At least it's something new, instead of the ole agenda based arguments. :biggrin:
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Salibatelli » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:34 pm

StLGooner wrote:
Özim wrote:
StLGooner wrote:But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.


Quite the oppositve, it's much harder to have a higher ration over a longer stretch of games than it is over a shorter number.

The facts are there though, 1 win, 3 draws and 1 defeat, that's not a lot different to what Emery was achieving despite people hyping Arteta up. If we play a bit better but get relegated performances won't matter at all.

What matters is results and if he can't get results, then he should be given the boot. We've got better players than many of the teams he's drawn with, Norwich, Bournemouth and Sheff Utd (a promoted team) and we should be beating them, saying out team is rubbish is an excuse because pound for pound we are more talent and those teams would happily take some of the players we have if they could afford them.

We're not a great team, far from it, but we're better than the results we're getting, on that basis Arteta is not doing a good job.


Right it could be a negative comparison as well, but either way, you're not making the comparison equal because Arteta simply hasn't managed enough.

Again though, it's just another useless stat that only makes it easier to confuse the illogical minded folks.


I don't disagree, but what noone can disagree about is 6 points from 15, that's 40% of points on offer that we've got and that's not even playing any real top teams other than maybe Chelsea, that's a poor return, there's no doubt about it.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby StLGooner » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:39 pm

Özim wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
Özim wrote:
StLGooner wrote:But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.


Quite the oppositve, it's much harder to have a higher ration over a longer stretch of games than it is over a shorter number.

The facts are there though, 1 win, 3 draws and 1 defeat, that's not a lot different to what Emery was achieving despite people hyping Arteta up. If we play a bit better but get relegated performances won't matter at all.

What matters is results and if he can't get results, then he should be given the boot. We've got better players than many of the teams he's drawn with, Norwich, Bournemouth and Sheff Utd (a promoted team) and we should be beating them, saying out team is rubbish is an excuse because pound for pound we are more talent and those teams would happily take some of the players we have if they could afford them.

We're not a great team, far from it, but we're better than the results we're getting, on that basis Arteta is not doing a good job.


Right it could be a negative comparison as well, but either way, you're not making the comparison equal because Arteta simply hasn't managed enough.

Again though, it's just another useless stat that only makes it easier to confuse the illogical minded folks.


I don't disagree, but what noone can disagree about is 6 points from 15, that's 40% of points on offer that we've got and that's not even playing any real top teams other than maybe Chelsea, that's a poor return, there's no doubt about it.



Well duh, but not the point at the moment.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:04 pm

StLGooner wrote:
Dejan wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Dejan wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
The XG and stats show a major improvement compared to Unai


This season, league only.

Under Unai: average Xg 1,36
Under Mikel: average Xg 1,26


Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

Take the average of Unai's last 5 games, you speng. Unai - 1.218. Arteta - 1.262. AND - averaging out xGs is not what PnG's comment is about. Its about having a greater xG than the opposing team in any given game and games under Arteta we are having a higher xG than the opponents more often - hence PnG's comment.


Why would you? Population size does not have to be equal, you "speng". Only taking the last 5 of unai is just manipulating statistics.

Under unai this season we have had a higher Xg goals than arteta. This cant be twisted, its a fact.

The only stat that matters though is the pts/game. Im interested to know that ratio of both managers.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk



But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.


Agreed. Looking at averages won't work. Also, when I'm looking at the xG and stats, I'm also looking at the fact that we've reduced the amount of chances teams are creating against us. The stats back up what I've concerning our improved defensive structure. It's far from perfect but instead of looking completely vulnerable and open, it's now more so a case the one odd lapse in concentration that's costing us instead of complete systematic failure.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby StLGooner » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:39 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
Dejan wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Dejan wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
The XG and stats show a major improvement compared to Unai


This season, league only.

Under Unai: average Xg 1,36
Under Mikel: average Xg 1,26


Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

Take the average of Unai's last 5 games, you speng. Unai - 1.218. Arteta - 1.262. AND - averaging out xGs is not what PnG's comment is about. Its about having a greater xG than the opposing team in any given game and games under Arteta we are having a higher xG than the opponents more often - hence PnG's comment.


Why would you? Population size does not have to be equal, you "speng". Only taking the last 5 of unai is just manipulating statistics.

Under unai this season we have had a higher Xg goals than arteta. This cant be twisted, its a fact.

The only stat that matters though is the pts/game. Im interested to know that ratio of both managers.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk



But the sample size from which you're drawing Unai's number is greater, thus giving him an advantage in comparison. Not that any of this matters anyway though.


Agreed. Looking at averages won't work. Also, when I'm looking at the xG and stats, I'm also looking at the fact that we've reduced the amount of chances teams are creating against us. The stats back up what I've concerning our improved defensive structure. It's far from perfect but instead of looking completely vulnerable and open, it's now more so a case the one odd lapse in concentration that's costing us instead of complete systematic failure.



Exactly.

But we shouldn't need statistics to show some people that we have improved in areas. Just watch the games people, it's easy to see. Yea the results haven't been there yet, but hopefully that comes with time and a whole bunch of new players. Arteta has us competing harder. f**k it even looks like Ozil is running more.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Zanatos3 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:46 pm

elkanofan wrote:
Jedi wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
Jedi wrote:
swipe right wrote:There is no doubt we look a better side under Arteta than Emery. But we need urgent reinforcements in midfield and defense. Sadly I don’t see our geniuses Raul and Edu securing them. Raul only seems to buy from agents he’s friends with and Edu doesn’t seem to know anyone outside the youth teams of Brazil.

It's not a race. January is an awful transfer window and even if we don't sign anyone that's completely fine.


I don't care how shit January is for transfers, we need players and we need them now! An attacking Mid and utility defensive cover for CB and LB.

The squad we have right now will not absolutely nothing this season.

Our season is already over. What would we be buying for? We're not getting top 4 and one or two january transfers aren't going to make much difference in cup competitions. We just need to take the L and strengthen in the summer. No panic buys.


and who the f**k is going to join us when we narrowly beat the drop, no CL, not EL, Auba leaves and we have few to no top level players anymore?

Your neglecting the 15 leagues games left, the EL to come and all the injuries to come we must contend with.

We have won 3 games in the league under 3 different coaches since October 1st.

We have won 5 games since then adding the win vs Guimaraes and Leeds at home.

Injuries, big injuries are only just starting to mount up with many, tough games ahead in 3 competitions.

We are a rudderless club drifting towards to drop with the only salvation at best midtable mediocrity and a AC Milan future future of this continually for the next 5 years at best with how things are moving.

We need players now, right now, right f***ing now and no later by February 1st! We need an attacking mid, we need a midfielder with movement to link our play between transitions and help allow our wingers and forwards to run in behind. We need CB and LB cover! If we don't sort this out we are in deep shit, deeper than the crisis we are already in.
You need to start concerning yourself with now and today because the tomorrow of next season will look very bleak unless we have clear ambition of CL football ready to present to new signings.

Aubameyang is 100% gone unless we win the Europa League or somehow by a miracle get top 4!

Arteta needs help from upstairs and so far he ain't getting enough help.


True

But the other part that people are neglecting to mention

Half the window gone &

Certain players should still be & should have already been Shipped out in THIS WINDOW!....

We Nearly Had Musti&Xhaka Definitely OUT set pre-order in the 1st week of January, NO RETURNS!!!!

But then we allowed the mediocre games to give them time to creep back in, so that we could get RE-RAPED by Liverpool & City when

the Window closes.

Like you say its Kronke's lack of Management

Do you think that Roman Abramovich would have let Raul Salmonella Keep his job after buying the wrong parts in the summer

& letting the club slip DOWN to 10th for the 1st time in Decades.

Raul would have been shown the door Promptly, just as Barca kicked him out for screwing up the Suarez signing.

Kronke doesn't care to change things nor add funds to improve the personnel.

Window isn't closed yet, lets see if Raul & Edu buy what we NEED this time, [ Instead of nice fowards to BE EXCITED about ]

I'm More concerned that there's no Deadwood heading OUT!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Zanatos3 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:00 pm

That & people suddenly saying we need an Attacking Midfielder (AM)

Yet Neglecting to mention that we have Ozil on 350k doing Nothing more that 1 good pass, & 57 AM's , in the 1st team,

so much that they are now filling in at RB & LB to teens, but AM's

We should be working on moving Ozil on, we know not in this window, so in the Summer Definitely!

let Ceballos,Willock,Saka,AMN,Nelson,Eddie ANY one of those play in the no.10 role behind the striker.

Ozil Can't Dribble & he WON'T SHOOT......All of these guys above, could!

so in January i'm sorry, an AM is not what we need. We need to fix the original problem.

Defense & DM
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby VCC » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:53 pm

You can pass a ball which makes it way to the keeper which therefore counts as a shot on target its literally traveling as fast as a back pass,
Some stats are a joke which is why watching football counts more than some prick rolling the ball 10 yards all day
Denilsen was statistically one of our best midfielders think about that
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:15 pm

theHotHead wrote:Jay - he has come in and done immediately better than the managers before him. He has only had 5 games !! The results have not been great but the performances and stats show we should have won more - which is better than the previous managers who were dominated in their games !!

With what he has, anyone expecting anything other than an evolution is deluded.



That's the issue - it IS revolution that we need - not evolution. This squad can only evolve into a different type of sh*te.
The players simply are not good enough.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:18 pm

VCC wrote:You can pass a ball which makes it way to the keeper which therefore counts as a shot on target its literally traveling as fast as a back pass,
Some stats are a joke which is why watching football counts more than some prick rolling the ball 10 yards all day
Denilsen was statistically one of our best midfielders think about that


I've argued heavily about the chance creation stat and how misleading it is. However, xG is supposed to be a statistic that measures quality chances created. Best explanation for it below.

https://youtu.be/zSaeaFcm1SY
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby VCC » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:26 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
VCC wrote:You can pass a ball which makes it way to the keeper which therefore counts as a shot on target its literally traveling as fast as a back pass,
Some stats are a joke which is why watching football counts more than some prick rolling the ball 10 yards all day
Denilsen was statistically one of our best midfielders think about that


I've argued heavily about the chance creation stat and how misleading it is. However, xG is supposed to be a statistic that measures quality chances created. Best explanation for it below.

https://youtu.be/zSaeaFcm1SY

I already understand that PG
But it is one of many miss leading stats, literally football unless a pass is miss judged or played poorly or miss controlled, could be controlled in possession by one team providing there is no ambition to go forward in any intent to score,where you will find the majority of the oppositions players, my point is the passes made stat should only be to forward passes,
Like I have said before Denilsen was one of our best midfielders statistically and he was dross
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