Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Marsbar100 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:18 pm

Jedi wrote:
Tony Adams wrote:
Angelito wrote:It's amazing how many here worshipped Emery for the longest time, but are willing to take their swords out 6 games into Arteta's tenure.

Disgusting set of fans.
We aren't getting results though. In Emery's opening few games we were getting results. His substitutions appeared to be changing games.

Arteta seems clueless in game management. Affraid to make subs or makes the wrong ones, no idea how to hold on to a lead. He just sticks to the same formation and tactics regardless of the score or opponent. It may be early days but so far it feels to me like a step back to the things Wenger got wrong.

Not every manager uses all 3 subs every game and some prefer to go for cohesion rather than erratically making subs as soon as things aren't going your way. For every sub Emery got right, he had another that completely backfired. I don't understand the obsession with team selection most fans have. There's so much more to the tactics than picking the right team/subs (which is all very subjective).

Lets face it, if Fleck doesn't score that insanely unlikely volley, you would have no problem with the subs cause we would have won the game. You also said today that we need a defensive coach, despite us only scoring 30 goals in 23 games. For comparison, City has 64 so far, and this is supposed to be their bad season. Our defense has been shit forever but Emery has done the unthinkable which is making our attack toothless too.

The bigger picture here is that there's no quick fix. This is a team that's in a crisis and needs a serious rebuild come May. Until then we have to settle for positive signs in what will be some embarrassing results.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Godlop » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:26 pm

Tony Adams wrote:
Angelito wrote:It's amazing how many here worshipped Emery for the longest time, but are willing to take their swords out 6 games into Arteta's tenure.

Disgusting set of fans.
We aren't getting results though. In Emery's opening few games we were getting results. His substitutions appeared to be changing games.

Arteta seems clueless in game management. Affraid to make subs or makes the wrong ones, no idea how to hold on to a lead. He just sticks to the same formation and tactics regardless of the score or opponent. It may be early days but so far it feels to me like a step back to the things Wenger got wrong.


You can't compare Emery's start with Arteta's

Emery had a whole preseason, a summer transfer window and largely took over a squad from Wenger that still played good football in parts and was a force at home.

Arteta doesn't have any of this because Raul and Emery ruined the only good things left about the squad that Wenger left us with.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Arsenal Tone » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:39 pm

Settle for positive signs. OK, name one that doesn't involve sideways passes on the half way line.

Sorry, I'm just annoyed at how obvious it was that a club in crisis should not appoint a head coach who has never been a head coach before. They should have brought in an experienced manager to steady the ship til the summer and given arteta the job then when he'd have a summer transfer window and full preseason.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Jack The Ripper » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:01 pm

Everyone told me that Arteta will be like Pep and has learned everything from Pep.. but I swear in his first 5 prem games with us so far he is exactly like Wenger, nothing like Pep at all.. it actually is basically Wenger. Subs are exactly the same time, its almost right down to the actual second!!!!!!. Also tactics are Wenger too. I feel like its Wenger

Is Wenger back in disguise??
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Ach » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:06 pm

Jack The Ripper wrote:Everyone told me that Arteta will be like Pep and has learned everything from Pep.. but I swear in his first 5 prem games with us so far he is exactly like Wenger, nothing like Pepe at all.. it actually is basically Wenger. Subs are exactly the same time, its almost right down to the actual second!!!!!!. Also tactics are Wenger too. I feel like its Wenger

Is Wenger back in disguise??

What we all thought has come to pass

But but he is the unknown..

Jobs far too big for him but hes here and we have to hope he can turn it around
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Salibatelli » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:21 pm

Tony Adams wrote:Settle for positive signs. OK, name one that doesn't involve sideways passes on the half way line.

Sorry, I'm just annoyed at how obvious it was that a club in crisis should not appoint a head coach who has never been a head coach before. They should have brought in an experienced manager to steady the ship til the summer and given arteta the job then when he'd have a summer transfer window and full preseason.


Pretty much, it was beyond ridiculous to employ this guy, no other top club would have even considered it, but you know why we did, because we're cheap, there was talk of getting the right man, interviewing 12 candidates and all that and in the end we appoint Arteta a guy who was one of the two people we interviewed last time.

For me, the board made their choice, Arteta took the job so he has no credit, he performs or he gets sacked, so far 1 win out of 5 PL games just isn't good enough and these positives some people point out are hardly noticeable. At the end of the day we needed result, not some guy who thinks bringing back that good feeling from when he was around in 2016 (and we were basically failing) is what's needed.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Salibatelli » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:23 pm

Jack The Ripper wrote:Everyone told me that Arteta will be like Pep and has learned everything from Pep.. but I swear in his first 5 prem games with us so far he is exactly like Wenger, nothing like Pep at all.. it actually is basically Wenger. Subs are exactly the same time, its almost right down to the actual second!!!!!!. Also tactics are Wenger too. I feel like its Wenger

Is Wenger back in disguise??


Yeah but then Wenger has been very complimentary about him for years and thought he could definitely replace him (no wonder the guy is like a mini clone of him), that should have been enough to put us off.

The bottom line is he needs to start getting results, the obvious way for us to play is a more pacey game as we do have pace in the team up front, so why we're going back to 5 yard triangular passing we disliked so much I don't know.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Jedi » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:26 pm

Tony Adams wrote:Settle for positive signs. OK, name one that doesn't involve sideways passes on the half way line.

Didn't we already do this and three people replied, myself included, all with different answers?


Tony Adams wrote:They should have brought in an experienced manager to steady the ship til the summer and given arteta the job then when he'd have a summer transfer window and full preseason.

Why? What difference does it make? It's not like we could challenge for top 4 with a different manager and Europa is always a roll of the dice.

Klopp came to Liverpool a few games into the season, forced to play with Rodgers' players finishing 8th. Look where they are now.

----------------------------------------------------------
And as far as Wenger comparisons go, when it comes to style, i wouldn't mind a second Wenger at all. In fact, i can only hope Arteta will make us play that kind of football.

Wengers main problem was being too sentimental with certain players and getting old. Arteta doesn't seem to have either of those problems.
Last edited by Jedi on Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Salibatelli » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:28 pm

Jedi wrote:Not every manager uses all 3 subs every game and some prefer to go for cohesion rather than erratically making subs as soon as things aren't going your way. For every sub Emery got right, he had another that completely backfired. I don't understand the obsession with team selection most fans have. There's so much more to the tactics than picking the right team/subs (which is all very subjective).

Lets face it, if Fleck doesn't score that insanely unlikely volley, you would have no problem with the subs cause we would have won the game. You also said today that we need a defensive coach, despite us only scoring 30 goals in 23 games. For comparison, City has 64 so far, and this is supposed to be their bad season. Our defense has been shit forever but Emery has done the unthinkable which is making our attack toothless too.

The bigger picture here is that there's no quick fix. This is a team that's in a crisis and needs a serious rebuild come May. Until then we have to settle for positive signs in what will be some embarrassing results.


Cohesion rather than making subs? We drew today, we failed to win and the guy has only managed 1 win in 5 PL games, I'd suggest he needs to change something that he's doing and making the wrong subs and too late isn't working, you say there's so much more to tactics than picking the right team/subs, but he's got it wrong because again we failed to win and that's the acid test, if you don't win you didn't get it right.

That's an excuse, like in every game we fail to win, it's always because of some freakish incident, bad luck or the ref, it's not it's because we weren't good enough. We were average at best against Sheff Utd, they got the point the deserved.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Salibatelli » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:31 pm

Jedi wrote:
Tony Adams wrote:Settle for positive signs. OK, name one that doesn't involve sideways passes on the half way line.

Didn't we already do this and three people replied, myself included, all with different answers?


Tony Adams wrote:They should have brought in an experienced manager to steady the ship til the summer and given arteta the job then when he'd have a summer transfer window and full preseason.

Why? What difference does it make? It's not like we could challenge for top 4 with a different manager and Europa is always a roll of the dice.

Klopp came to Liverpool a few games into the season, forced to play with Rodgers' players finishing 8th. Look where they are now.

And as far as Wenger comparisons go, when it comes to style, i wouldn't mind a second Wenger at all. In fact, i can only hope Arteta will make us play that kind of football.

Wengers main problem was being too sentimental with certain players and getting old. Arteta doesn't seem to have either of those problems.


Stop with the comparisons with Klopp, this guy is no Klopp, he was proven had taken Dortmund to the title and to the CL final, what evidence is there that this guy is anything like Klopp, Guardiola or Ferguson, there's isn't, that's just fantasy I'm aftaid.

I'd never want another Wenger, he was a walking disaster and caused this mess in the first place, why anyone would want another one of him is beyond me.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Santi » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:32 pm

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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Jedi » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:15 am

Özim wrote:Stop with the comparisons with Klopp, this guy is no Klopp, he was proven had taken Dortmund to the title and to the CL final, what evidence is there that this guy is anything like Klopp, Guardiola or Ferguson, there's isn't, that's just fantasy I'm aftaid.

I agree. Klopp is arguably the best manager in the world, won the CL, on his way to go unbeaten in league, doing unspeakable things and ravaging teams left and right, yet even he struggled when he took over in the middle of the season and finished 8th.

So why do people expect Arteta, a rookie, to be winning every game, if the best manager in the world couldn't do it?
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:11 am

Angelito wrote:It's amazing how many here worshipped Emery for the longest time, but are willing to take their swords out 6 games into Arteta's tenure.

Disgusting set of fans.


Emery did well in his first season, right up to the end...we were crusing to a top 4 finish and favourites for 3rd and in the Europey League Final.
Once he started making stupid decisions and the team imploded he was quickly gone.
In fact it took basically from the last 5-6 games of the 2018/19 season until less than 20 games this season for him to be fired and it was along time before then when the fans turned on him.

Arteta has started as badly as Emery finished.
We can pretend if we like, but Arteta is clearly not the man for the job.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Nuggets » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:58 am

Tony Adams wrote:Settle for positive signs. OK, name one that doesn't involve sideways passes on the half way line.

Sorry, I'm just annoyed at how obvious it was that a club in crisis should not appoint a head coach who has never been a head coach before. They should have brought in an experienced manager to steady the ship til the summer and given arteta the job then when he'd have a summer transfer window and full preseason.


There speaks the voice of reason :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Mikel Arteta, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Angelito » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:18 am

Tony Adams wrote:Settle for positive signs. OK, name one that doesn't involve sideways passes on the half way line.

Sorry, I'm just annoyed at how obvious it was that a club in crisis should not appoint a head coach who has never been a head coach before. They should have brought in an experienced manager to steady the ship til the summer and given arteta the job then when he'd have a summer transfer window and full preseason.


Why did we sign Emery in the first place? That should be your question. Emery is everything Arsenal isn't. He destroyed our style, cohesion, and gameplay. Apparently, Wenger's worst season ever only happened because Gazidis begged him to stay for one more season because Arsenal had no structure in place.

And in that worst season ever, we had the second best home record in the Prem, reached the League Cup Final losing to the Centurions, and the EL SF where we lost because of a Koscielny brain fart. Emery took over a side that had won the FA Cup and had notched 75 points 12 months prior; had reached the EL SFs and the League Cup final just a few months prior. Plus, Emery had an array of talented players like Auba, Ozil, Laca, Monreal, Kosc, Mkhi, Bellerín, etc. He got defensive reenforcements in Sokratis and Leno. He got CDMs in Torreira and 'Douzi. Yet, we were worse off defensively under Unai than under Wenger.

Arteta, meanwhile, is taking over Emery who was a walking disaster for 12 of those 18 months in the Prem. He had us humiliated in the EL Final. He witnessed the most catastrophic collapse in the Prem when we were a lock for the top-4, and he left us languishing at 8th place with 6 wins out of 20 games. Then, under Freddie we slipped further down to 11th place.

Are you seriously comparing Emery's situation to the circumstances in which Arteta took over? Emery had a pre-season. He was here for 18 months. Sanllehi and Co. spent £200m for him. Yet, he sucked out all the life from Arsenal. He left us worse off than when he arrived.


Godlop wrote:
Tony Adams wrote:
Angelito wrote:It's amazing how many here worshipped Emery for the longest time, but are willing to take their swords out 6 games into Arteta's tenure.

Disgusting set of fans.
We aren't getting results though. In Emery's opening few games we were getting results. His substitutions appeared to be changing games.

Arteta seems clueless in game management. Affraid to make subs or makes the wrong ones, no idea how to hold on to a lead. He just sticks to the same formation and tactics regardless of the score or opponent. It may be early days but so far it feels to me like a step back to the things Wenger got wrong.


You can't compare Emery's start with Arteta's

Emery had a whole preseason, a summer transfer window and largely took over a squad from Wenger that still played good football in parts and was a force at home.

Arteta doesn't have any of this because Raul and Emery ruined the only good things left about the squad that Wenger left us with.


This.
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