Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:31 am

Phil71 wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Arteta has bought the Ozil situation on himself. I don't think it's the clubs instructions because Sokratis is in the same boat and it's almost the same situation with Saliba. He's chosen to freeze these players out for some reason and it's starting to look bad.

Not sure what he's trying achieve tactically anymore. He moved away from playing a 4-2-3-1 when our most impressive display was against Man Utd where we won 2-0. AMN had a stand out performance playing as an inverted wingback, Pepe had a man of the match performance and we just had more of threat down the right with Ozil, AMN and Pepe working in a similar way to how Saka, Tierny and Auba worked on the opposite flank.

I don't know why he's abandoned that set up even without Ozil if he wants to return to a 4-2-3-1. Just play Ceballos in that role to connect AMN and Pepe on the right.


I don't believe for one minute that it's down to him.

What manager in their right mind would completely exclude players from his selection? If you want to drop them for whatever reason fine. But it would be madness for a football manager to deliberately reduce the number of players he can choose from.

There is more to this than we know, and he is toeing the club line - same as Wenger did.

I think these players - especially Ozil and Sokratis - have significant pay as you play clauses in theior contracts, and Arteta has been given the choice of playing them and reducing his playing budget, or not playing them and getting the additional funds - like for Partey and Gabriel.

I believe it either is down to him or he is being complicit with it. He is no longer Head Coach, he is the Manager so he has a say in decisions like this. bonus or no bonus we still have to pay Ozil his £350k per week, I cannot imagine the club agreed to such excessive basic pay wages of £350k per week PLUS a significant bonus on top of that. No way in the world, only a total f***ing imbecile would agree to give the player such a contract. Ozil is not Messi or Ronaldo !!

You give a player a significant pay as you play bonus as an incentive to do well or if the player has a patchy medical rrecord, you don't give him one of the highest basic salaries in Premier League history as well as a significant pay as you play bonus.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:32 am

Jedi wrote:
gooney wrote:
Rockape wrote:Let’s face it, Arteta was a gamble which looked like it had paid off when we won the FA Cup and have looked so much more coherent in defence this season.

Now he has serious work to do to get the team firing and deserves some time to achieve that. However, if there’s no improvement by the end of the year, then we need to look elsewhere.

I agree with this. I would give him until end of the year and it’s not even about result. If he can’t show improvement in our attacking play. He needs to go. We could have stolen the Leeds game if saka scored. But would that change anything? There are serious problems which shows unless something changes we will fail guaranteed.

Do you think a different manager could do better with this current roster? I don't think so.

I don't think the coaching or the tactics are the problem here. I think It's the recruitment, which has been awful for a couple of years. Since Wenger left, we've lost Wilshere, Cazorla, Ramsey, Ozil, Mkhitaryan. That's 5 offensive minded creative midfielders. Who did we replace them with? Ceballos? And Besiktas reject Elnenny?

This squad doesn't have a single creative midfielder that's top 4 quality. How could you expect anything other than what we're seeing right now?

Of course and bloody easily ! While the squad is not a title challenger it is capable of far better than we are seeing, aor are you saying that this squad is only worth 11th place in the league ?!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:40 am

Jedi wrote:
Dejan wrote:Yes. Alot better aswell.
Wolves, crystal palace, westham, aston villa and southampton are above us ffs. You think they have a better team then us?

We have a -1 goal difference ffs

Grealish and Ross Barkley would walk into our first team and Villa had a net spend of 80 million in the summer.

Other than them none of those teams have a realistic shot at finishing above us unless there's a meltdown of epic proportions. And Wolves are currently behind us.

Power n Glory wrote:Arteta has never managed before. We set the bar pretty low on this one. They may not be everyone's cup of tea but I believe Ancelotti, Mourinho or Rodgers would have gotten something more out of this team. It's not as if Arteta hasn't had two transfer windows either. The players he's vouched for have been garbage.

That's an entirely different argument. Perhaps these managers would've brought different players that could perform better, but I'm strictly speaking about whether something can be done to see a big improvement with the current squad.

The only reason "nearly relegated last season Villa" have a chance of finishing above us this season is because we are playing so shit, it has nothing to do with them having a better team than us ! Ross Barkley ... do me a lemon ! Henri bloody Lansbury is even getting games for them .. .YES THAT HENRI LANSBURY !
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:00 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
We can't for the way some people want him to play and to which he's caving into.

We actually don't have a better team for midfield offense than Leeds or Aston Villa, no one in our midfield is as good going forward as Grealish.

If we played the Atletico model or even went back to Arteta's 3-4-3 we'd be better off than what we saw against Leeds and Leicester, that's even despite the Villa thrashing but that the whole team switched off for the entire game that day.

The best we've looked was against Utd using our CM's to bully them and hit them on the flanks.

Its not difficult, just add up the team.

CM - Partey, Ceballos, Xhaka, Elneny

CAM - Willock

Wingers - Pepe, Willian, Saka, Nelson

Strikers - Auba, Laca, Nketiah

There you have it, our outfield team (all but defenders), that is our team, read it and weep, there is no space there at all for fancy passing, midfield creativity, none.

That is a team of wide players and solid deep CM's, so again, Atletico's 4-4-2 or 3-4-3.

That's the only way we're better than other teams, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 is not the one.

Why are people going on like Jack Grealish is f***ing Maradona ? He is slightly above average, nothing more. Walcott pisses all over his numbers and half the club thought Walcott was shit. Even Ramsey gives Grealish's a run for his money !!

Grealish stats, age 20 to current age of 25 (league):
2015/16 - 1 goal
2016/17 - 5 goals, 5 assists (Championship)
2017/18 - 3 goals, 5 assists (Championship)
2018/19 - 6 goals, 6 assists (Championship)
2019/20 - 8 goals 6 assists
2020-21 - 4 goals, 6 assists

Walcott age 20:
2009/10 - 3 goals, 3 assists
2010/11 - 9 goals, 7 assists
2011/12 - 8 goals, 11 assists
2012/13 - 14 goals, 12 assists
2014/15 - 5 goals, 1 assist
2015/16 - 5 goals 3 assists

Ramsey age 20:
2010/11 - 1 goal
2011/12 - 2 goals, 4 assists
2012/13 - 1 goal, 4 assists
2013/14 - 10 goals, 9 assists
2014/15 - 6 goals, 6 assists
2015/16 - 5 goals, 4 assists
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Phil71 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:31 am

theHotHead wrote:
Phil71 wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Arteta has bought the Ozil situation on himself. I don't think it's the clubs instructions because Sokratis is in the same boat and it's almost the same situation with Saliba. He's chosen to freeze these players out for some reason and it's starting to look bad.

Not sure what he's trying achieve tactically anymore. He moved away from playing a 4-2-3-1 when our most impressive display was against Man Utd where we won 2-0. AMN had a stand out performance playing as an inverted wingback, Pepe had a man of the match performance and we just had more of threat down the right with Ozil, AMN and Pepe working in a similar way to how Saka, Tierny and Auba worked on the opposite flank.

I don't know why he's abandoned that set up even without Ozil if he wants to return to a 4-2-3-1. Just play Ceballos in that role to connect AMN and Pepe on the right.


I don't believe for one minute that it's down to him.

What manager in their right mind would completely exclude players from his selection? If you want to drop them for whatever reason fine. But it would be madness for a football manager to deliberately reduce the number of players he can choose from.

There is more to this than we know, and he is toeing the club line - same as Wenger did.

I think these players - especially Ozil and Sokratis - have significant pay as you play clauses in theior contracts, and Arteta has been given the choice of playing them and reducing his playing budget, or not playing them and getting the additional funds - like for Partey and Gabriel.

I believe it either is down to him or he is being complicit with it. He is no longer Head Coach, he is the Manager so he has a say in decisions like this. bonus or no bonus we still have to pay Ozil his £350k per week, I cannot imagine the club agreed to such excessive basic pay wages of £350k per week PLUS a significant bonus on top of that. No way in the world, only a total f***ing imbecile would agree to give the player such a contract. Ozil is not Messi or Ronaldo !!

You give a player a significant pay as you play bonus as an incentive to do well or if the player has a patchy medical rrecord, you don't give him one of the highest basic salaries in Premier League history as well as a significant pay as you play bonus.


My thoughts were more that he has a salary of £350k a week if he plays - and maybe £250k a week if he doesn't.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby EliteKiller » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:36 am

theHotHead wrote:Why are people going on like Jack Grealish is f***ing Maradona ? He is slightly above average, nothing more. Walcott pisses all over his numbers and half the club thought Walcott was shit. Even Ramsey gives Grealish's a run for his money !!

Grealish stats, age 20 to current age of 25 (league):
2015/16 - 1 goal
2016/17 - 5 goals, 5 assists (Championship)
2017/18 - 3 goals, 5 assists (Championship)
2018/19 - 6 goals, 6 assists (Championship)
2019/20 - 8 goals 6 assists
2020-21 - 4 goals, 6 assists

Walcott age 20:
2009/10 - 3 goals, 3 assists
2010/11 - 9 goals, 7 assists
2011/12 - 8 goals, 11 assists
2012/13 - 14 goals, 12 assists
2014/15 - 5 goals, 1 assist
2015/16 - 5 goals 3 assists

Ramsey age 20:
2010/11 - 1 goal
2011/12 - 2 goals, 4 assists
2012/13 - 1 goal, 4 assists
2013/14 - 10 goals, 9 assists
2014/15 - 6 goals, 6 assists
2015/16 - 5 goals, 4 assists


You're just creating page filling stats ....

Plenty of players were nothing before they turned 25 - Ian Wright, Vardy, Toni, Blind - look at their records before they turned 25 then look at them afterwards. Walcott and Ramsey went nowhere after turning 25, maybe Grealish will move up, maybe he won't.

A player is only as good as he is right now, what he did as a junior makes very little difference ... Harry Kane loaned out to Orient, Millwall, Norwich, Leicester did bugger all worth talking about, only got his chance at Spurs due to injuries, sadly he turned our pretty good.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Dejan » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:04 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Why are people going on like Jack Grealish is f***ing Maradona ? He is slightly above average, nothing more. Walcott pisses all over his numbers and half the club thought Walcott was shit. Even Ramsey gives Grealish's a run for his money !!

Grealish stats, age 20 to current age of 25 (league):
2015/16 - 1 goal
2016/17 - 5 goals, 5 assists (Championship)
2017/18 - 3 goals, 5 assists (Championship)
2018/19 - 6 goals, 6 assists (Championship)
2019/20 - 8 goals 6 assists
2020-21 - 4 goals, 6 assists

Walcott age 20:
2009/10 - 3 goals, 3 assists
2010/11 - 9 goals, 7 assists
2011/12 - 8 goals, 11 assists
2012/13 - 14 goals, 12 assists
2014/15 - 5 goals, 1 assist
2015/16 - 5 goals 3 assists

Ramsey age 20:
2010/11 - 1 goal
2011/12 - 2 goals, 4 assists
2012/13 - 1 goal, 4 assists
2013/14 - 10 goals, 9 assists
2014/15 - 6 goals, 6 assists
2015/16 - 5 goals, 4 assists


You're just creating page filling stats ....

Plenty of players were nothing before they turned 25 - Ian Wright, Vardy, Toni, Blind - look at their records before they turned 25 then look at them afterwards. Walcott and Ramsey went nowhere after turning 25, maybe Grealish will move up, maybe he won't.

A player is only as good as he is right now, what he did as a junior makes very little difference ... Harry Kane loaned out to Orient, Millwall, Norwich, Leicester did bugger all worth talking about, only got his chance at Spurs due to injuries, sadly he turned our pretty good.


Agreed. Jack has a shown a very impressive growth in the last 1.5 years
4 goals and 6 assists after only 8 games. I am very curious on how is he going to perform the full season

If he keeps doing well, he is out of our limits tho

Pep the bald fraud probavbly buying him in his 500m transfer window next summer
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:30 pm

Angelito wrote:

Somebody please show Arteta this.

Beautiful, soccer !!!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:47 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
You're just creating page filling stats ....

Plenty of players were nothing before they turned 25 - Ian Wright, Vardy, Toni, Blind - look at their records before they turned 25 then look at them afterwards. Walcott and Ramsey went nowhere after turning 25, maybe Grealish will move up, maybe he won't.

A player is only as good as he is right now, what he did as a junior makes very little difference ... Harry Kane loaned out to Orient, Millwall, Norwich, Leicester did bugger all worth talking about, only got his chance at Spurs due to injuries, sadly he turned our pretty good.

EK that is precisely my point, I showed what Grealish has done NOW alongside what he did before now, just to show that now and in the past he has been nothing special.

So why are people going on like he is something special ? From what I have seen he is a bit better than average.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:54 pm

Dejan wrote:Agreed. Jack has a shown a very impressive growth in the last 1.5 years
4 goals and 6 assists after only 8 games. I am very curious on how is he going to perform the full season

If he keeps doing well, he is out of our limits tho

Pep the bald fraud probavbly buying him in his 500m transfer window next summer

Impressive growth ?? Do me a favour.

Grealish stats, age 20 to current age of 25 (league):
2015/16 - 1 goal
2016/17 - 5 goals, 5 assists (Championship)
2017/18 - 3 goals, 5 assists (Championship)
2018/19 - 6 goals, 6 assists (Championship)
2019/20 - 8 goals 6 assists
2020-21 - 4 goals, 6 assists

Since 2016 he has scored or assisted 10, 8, 12, 14, 10 (current season). What is impressive about that ? Scoring 2 more goals than the 2018/19 season is hardly impressive. Poor choice of words.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Dejan » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:00 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Dejan wrote:Agreed. Jack has a shown a very impressive growth in the last 1.5 years
4 goals and 6 assists after only 8 games. I am very curious on how is he going to perform the full season

If he keeps doing well, he is out of our limits tho

Pep the bald fraud probavbly buying him in his 500m transfer window next summer

Impressive growth ?? Do me a favour.

Grealish stats, age 20 to current age of 25 (league):
2015/16 - 1 goal
2016/17 - 5 goals, 5 assists (Championship)
2017/18 - 3 goals, 5 assists (Championship)
2018/19 - 6 goals, 6 assists (Championship)
2019/20 - 8 goals 6 assists
2020-21 - 4 goals, 6 assists

Since 2016 he has scored or assisted 10, 8, 12, 14, 10 (current season). What is impressive about that ? Scoring 2 more goals than the 2018/19 season is hardly impressive. Poor choice of words.


I clearly said impressive growth in the last 1.5 years
Poor choice of words, buddy ;)
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:19 pm

Dejan wrote:
I clearly said impressive growth in the last 1.5 years
Poor choice of words, buddy ;)

Hmm ... will give you the benefit of the doubt. This season is the first season he has shown any kind of form to suggest he is decent, anything prior to this season - meh.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby starmandb » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:58 pm

KG3 wrote:Ljungburg may have been out of his depth but one this about him is he wasn’t afraid of giving the youth players a shot, most of them were subs in certain games but his final team selection was this against Everton in our 0-0, I guess after getting hammered by city 3-0 the game before he thought f**k it why not.

———————Leno—————

Niles—Chambers—Luiz—Saka

————Torreria—Xhaka———

Nelson————ESR————Martinelli

—————Aubameyang———————

Bench: Martinez, Mustafi, Mavropanos, Guendouzi, Willock, Pepe, Lacazette

You wouldn’t see Arteta fielding such a team with so many youth players even in the Europa League, he doesn't trust our backup goalkeeper to play against a bunch of part time farmers.

Arteta played
Torriera
Willock
Guendouzi
Saka
Nelson
Nketiah
Martinelli
And Ceballos came off the bench
At Portsmouth in the 2-0 fa cup win
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby starmandb » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:21 pm

gooney wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:I'm also hoping that he hasn't just boxed Partey into a defensive midfielder category because it was so disappointing seeing how Arteta set the team up against Leicester when Partey played. None of the play went through him and distribution went outside of him and over the top!

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/amp/news/ars ... opcx4bh7eq

He has said himself that he wants to attack more and he's more than capable so give him more responsibility.

Arteta is spanish and anyone who follow spanish football knows how the spanish views black midfielders. They did it to even yaya toure.....luckily for partey this clown will be gone soon

Arteta has played 12 black players
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby starmandb » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:34 pm

Angelito wrote:

Somebody please show Arteta this.

There was also a 3-1 home defeat to Aston Villa
A 6-3 defeat at Man City
A 5-1 defeat at Liverpool( watch it? He scored in it)
And a 6-0 defeat at Chelsea
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