Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Arsenal news and interviews
Discuss anything Arsenal related, players, tactics etc.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:45 pm

thebigbangtheo wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
thebigbangtheo wrote:Well, I for one do like that he is making a clear effort to change the demographic of the team in his revamp by significantly reducing its average age.

Not only does this promise to refresh the attitude, approach and mental outlook of the squad by injecting a greater emphasis on the exuberance and dangerous courage of youthfulness, it dispels and moves us further away from the negativity and morose self pitying born of failure and marinated in the stench of self doubt and under-achievement that has seemingly and unconsciously soaked into the very bones of most of our more senior players.

For too long now we have been undergoing a transitional period during which time we haven't in reality transitioned one iota - until now.


I don't know. It looks like project youth 2.0. So far we've signed two 21 year olds and both Ben White and Aouar are 23 if those deals go through. Hard to expect a lot from new signings so young, which kind of puts us in another transitional period.

The demographic we have now with aging seniors was born out of the original project youth where we lacked experience. The original project youth was born out of replacing an aging Invincible side with youthfulness. It's a cycle. Hopefully, we get the balance right this time but I'm not expecting much this season.


I do get the point you are making PnG, but equally I must call out the difference between the misguided, failed attempt by Wenger to ham fistedly address the need for an infusion of new ideas and approach to rebuilding a new team to challenge for the title by introducing new bodies as opposed to a transfusion of iron enriched blood.

In essence, the difference is that the efforts of our former and still illustrious manager were akin to trawler fishing which uses giant nets that gather up all and sundry, whereas this operation governed by Arteta and Edu bears more resemblance to deep sea fishing for tuna using fishing rods which is ultimately specific.


I wish I had that same enthusiasm but I don't see it. Wenger was misguided and stubborn but he had a brand of football that could have worked with better players and if he and others around him were quick to identify the missing pieces and weak areas. We are far from having a playing style and philosophy under Arteta. Nobody can quite understand what style of football he's trying to play or how we'll look with these new signings. It's another transition and we won't really know if these signings are good or a bust until a couple of seasons have past as usual. Similar to Emery and similar to Wenger's final stages.
User avatar
Power n Glory
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 5969
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:46 pm

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:We finished second in 2016. That’s two years before he was fired. How that makes it ten years in decline I don’t know. You’d be doing cartwheels if we finish second any time in the next decade.

Because we finished second in a 2 horse race. He is not getting props for finishing second when we should've won the league that season, we won't get a better chance than 2016 and Wenger f***ked it up!

No. We finished second in a 20 horse race. And for what it’s worth every fan thinks we should have won every season. But it’s going to be a looooooong fcking wait before the next Arsenal manager gets us to finish second.

Mate, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea and Man U were going through a major transition, they were all poor, it was down to Arsenal and Tottenham to duke it out for the league title, we were on top at Christmas I believe, we got overtaken by Leicester and lost the title. We won't be in a situation where 4 of the biggest teams are going through a major transition again at the same time.


Honestly how the f**k is this even a conversation that has been driven from a simple point that it will be good to get top 6 this year and we might even get top 4 with some luck???????
Does anyone actually think otherwise?

I don't agree it would be good, I think it should be the bottom line. Good would be a top 4 finish.


Top 4 would be an exceptional achievement.
To turn this club around and get us back into the CL in less than 3 years would elevate Arteta massively.


It would because he’s been so rubbish so far, two 8th places.

There’s zero chance of 4th place with Arteta, anyone who thinks there is needs to wake up IMO, the guy is a dreadful manager.

Next season will be a washout, if it’s possible to get it wrong Arteta will, let’s not kid ourselves anymore please, this guy was all hype.


I can tell you right now the one thing that will make Arteta miss out on a top 4 finish and that is starting Auba as CF. Book this post.

By the time Arteta realizes his mistake we would have dropped too many points to make a comeback


I am still hopeful Auba will be better this year. He can't be much worse than last.
We're stuck with him this season, so if last season was just about attitude and not his age we might get one final season out of him before he leaves.
Against some teams, where we have less possession, he may even be ok playing centrally
jayramfootball
Herbert Chapman
Herbert Chapman
 
Posts: 12078
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:17 pm

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:We finished second in 2016. That’s two years before he was fired. How that makes it ten years in decline I don’t know. You’d be doing cartwheels if we finish second any time in the next decade.

Because we finished second in a 2 horse race. He is not getting props for finishing second when we should've won the league that season, we won't get a better chance than 2016 and Wenger f***ked it up!

No. We finished second in a 20 horse race. And for what it’s worth every fan thinks we should have won every season. But it’s going to be a looooooong fcking wait before the next Arsenal manager gets us to finish second.

Mate, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea and Man U were going through a major transition, they were all poor, it was down to Arsenal and Tottenham to duke it out for the league title, we were on top at Christmas I believe, we got overtaken by Leicester and lost the title. We won't be in a situation where 4 of the biggest teams are going through a major transition again at the same time.


Honestly how the f**k is this even a conversation that has been driven from a simple point that it will be good to get top 6 this year and we might even get top 4 with some luck???????
Does anyone actually think otherwise?

I don't agree it would be good, I think it should be the bottom line. Good would be a top 4 finish.


Top 4 would be an exceptional achievement.
To turn this club around and get us back into the CL in less than 3 years would elevate Arteta massively.


It would because he’s been so rubbish so far, two 8th places.

There’s zero chance of 4th place with Arteta, anyone who thinks there is needs to wake up IMO, the guy is a dreadful manager.

Next season will be a washout, if it’s possible to get it wrong Arteta will, let’s not kid ourselves anymore please, this guy was all hype.


I can tell you right now the one thing that will make Arteta miss out on a top 4 finish and that is starting Auba as CF. Book this post.

By the time Arteta realizes his mistake we would have dropped too many points to make a comeback


I agree.

Any man and his dog can see that Auba playing CF is not and hasn't worked.

I didn't mind him trying it but its not worked for half a season, when's he going to learn?

I think we should go to a two man LF & RF mainly with Auba and Pepe up front, they are our two best finishers and both can run at defences.
Image
User avatar
DiamondGooner
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 25971
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am
Location: At the Gucci store

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:24 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:We finished second in 2016. That’s two years before he was fired. How that makes it ten years in decline I don’t know. You’d be doing cartwheels if we finish second any time in the next decade.

Because we finished second in a 2 horse race. He is not getting props for finishing second when we should've won the league that season, we won't get a better chance than 2016 and Wenger f***ked it up!

No. We finished second in a 20 horse race. And for what it’s worth every fan thinks we should have won every season. But it’s going to be a looooooong fcking wait before the next Arsenal manager gets us to finish second.

Mate, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea and Man U were going through a major transition, they were all poor, it was down to Arsenal and Tottenham to duke it out for the league title, we were on top at Christmas I believe, we got overtaken by Leicester and lost the title. We won't be in a situation where 4 of the biggest teams are going through a major transition again at the same time.


Honestly how the f**k is this even a conversation that has been driven from a simple point that it will be good to get top 6 this year and we might even get top 4 with some luck???????
Does anyone actually think otherwise?

I don't agree it would be good, I think it should be the bottom line. Good would be a top 4 finish.


Top 4 would be an exceptional achievement.
To turn this club around and get us back into the CL in less than 3 years would elevate Arteta massively.


It would because he’s been so rubbish so far, two 8th places.

There’s zero chance of 4th place with Arteta, anyone who thinks there is needs to wake up IMO, the guy is a dreadful manager.

Next season will be a washout, if it’s possible to get it wrong Arteta will, let’s not kid ourselves anymore please, this guy was all hype.


I can tell you right now the one thing that will make Arteta miss out on a top 4 finish and that is starting Auba as CF. Book this post.

By the time Arteta realizes his mistake we would have dropped too many points to make a comeback


I am still hopeful Auba will be better this year. He can't be much worse than last.
We're stuck with him this season, so if last season was just about attitude and not his age we might get one final season out of him before he leaves.
Against some teams, where we have less possession, he may even be ok playing centrally


Assuming we don’t buy a new CF, Lacazette should be starting most games with Auba coming off the bench IMO. Arteta has it backwards atm and I don’t know how long it will take for him to see this.

If it were up to me though, I’d have Martinelli has my number 1 CF. And if not that then a two striker formation as DG mentioned with Auba playing alongside Lacazette, Pepe, or Martinelli depending on the opposition
Leno
(Runarsson/Okonkwo)
Bellerin White Gabriel Tierney
(Cedric/Niles) (Saliba/Dinos) (Holding/Mari) (Tavares/Kolasinac)
Partey —- Lokonga
(Xhaka/Chambers) --- (Elneny/Azeez)
Pepe ————— ESR ————— Saka
(Willian/Omari) ————— (Matteo/Willock) ————— (Martinelli/Nelson)
Auba(c)
(Lacazette/Balogun)


Last Updated: 7/30/21
User avatar
CrimsonGunner11
Predictions League 2011-12, 2016-17 Winner
Predictions League 2011-12, 2016-17 Winner
 
Posts: 18733
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:14 pm
Location: The Peach State

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:48 am

I can see it now. Arteta lovers blaming Auba for another failed season so their boy gets one more chance.
swipe right
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 4016
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:05 am

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Nuggets » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:51 am

swipe right wrote:I can see it now. Arteta lovers blaming Auba for another failed season so their boy gets one more chance.


I am sure they can get medication for that.
Image
User avatar
Nuggets
Predictions League 2011-12, 2016-17 Winner
Predictions League 2011-12, 2016-17 Winner
 
Posts: 19692
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:16 pm
Location: Sunny Turkey, now.

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:56 am

Until we see how the team are going to play we can't pin our hopes on Auba saving our season, Messi himself could do f**k all about last season's abysmal 4 months. Creatively we were mostly shockingly bad.
User avatar
theHotHead
Herbert Chapman
Herbert Chapman
 
Posts: 11680
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:36 am

theHotHead wrote:Until we see how the team are going to play we can't pin our hopes on Auba saving our season, Messi himself could do f**k all about last season's abysmal 4 months. Creatively we were mostly shockingly bad.


Yep. So far we haven't signed a player that can have an effect on our attack and we need to address the lack of connectivity between the front three. At the moment we're just hoping they have a better season without making a real adjustment.
User avatar
Power n Glory
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 5969
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:46 am

Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Until we see how the team are going to play we can't pin our hopes on Auba saving our season, Messi himself could do f**k all about last season's abysmal 4 months. Creatively we were mostly shockingly bad.


Yep. So far we haven't signed a player that can have an effect on our attack and we need to address the lack of connectivity between the front three. At the moment we're just hoping they have a better season without making a real adjustment.


We have players that are a year older and I would expect to get even better. They are already some of the best young players on the planet.
ESR, Saka and Martinelli.
Do we need another CAM? maybe... but we're not short of attacking options.
jayramfootball
Herbert Chapman
Herbert Chapman
 
Posts: 12078
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:22 am

jayramfootball wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Until we see how the team are going to play we can't pin our hopes on Auba saving our season, Messi himself could do f**k all about last season's abysmal 4 months. Creatively we were mostly shockingly bad.


Yep. So far we haven't signed a player that can have an effect on our attack and we need to address the lack of connectivity between the front three. At the moment we're just hoping they have a better season without making a real adjustment.


We have players that are a year older and I would expect to get even better. They are already some of the best young players on the planet.
ESR, Saka and Martinelli.
Do we need another CAM? maybe... but we're not short of attacking options.


As I said, we're hoping players improve. It's not always an upwards trajectory even though our young players have more experience and a year older. The first project youth taught us that. Martinelli went backwards last year compared to his debut season, so hopefully he gets more game time this year and we also have to hope ESR gets more game time and stays fit.
User avatar
Power n Glory
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 5969
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:25 am

Would you buy a CAM if Willock impresses in pre season?
swipe right
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 4016
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:05 am

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:34 am

swipe right wrote:Would you buy a CAM if Willock impresses in pre season?


Yes, I would still buy a CAM because Willock isn't a creative midfielder that's going to do the link up play and splitting passes feeding our attackers. Would have to improve massively on his passing. He's more CM than CAM.
User avatar
Power n Glory
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 5969
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:56 am

Power n Glory wrote:
swipe right wrote:Would you buy a CAM if Willock impresses in pre season?


Yes, I would still buy a CAM because Willock isn't a creative midfielder that's going to do the link up play and splitting passes feeding our attackers. Would have to improve massively on his passing. He's more CM than CAM.

This - and this is the reason we should not put all of our eggs in the ESR basket. We need to at least have the option of a creative midfielder that can pick locks, ESR isn't that sort of attacking midfielder, we need somone that can play that disguised pass, to say we will rely on ESR and Saka for our creativity is a monumental mistake.
User avatar
theHotHead
Herbert Chapman
Herbert Chapman
 
Posts: 11680
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:46 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Until we see how the team are going to play we can't pin our hopes on Auba saving our season, Messi himself could do f**k all about last season's abysmal 4 months. Creatively we were mostly shockingly bad.


Yep. So far we haven't signed a player that can have an effect on our attack and we need to address the lack of connectivity between the front three. At the moment we're just hoping they have a better season without making a real adjustment.


We have players that are a year older and I would expect to get even better. They are already some of the best young players on the planet.
ESR, Saka and Martinelli.
Do we need another CAM? maybe... but we're not short of attacking options.


As I said, we're hoping players improve. It's not always an upwards trajectory even though our young players have more experience and a year older. The first project youth taught us that. Martinelli went backwards last year compared to his debut season, so hopefully he gets more game time this year and we also have to hope ESR gets more game time and stays fit.


There are no guarantees.

Players like ESR and Saka HAVE to keep progressing - or else we're toast.
We can't just keep buying players in an effort to try and guarantee success - it's a fools' errand.
We need to go all-in on our young stars and give them the game time they need.
New signings should be for a specific need that we don't have covered. I would want Martinelli, ESR and Saka to play 45-50 games this coming season.
Martinelli hardly got game time last year because we played less talented players in front of him - something I am critical of Arteta for.

Given ESRs injury record a CAM might be a good idea, but only as backup.
I certainly do not want to see ESR left on the bench in an effort to accommodate another CAM.

Attacking wise the areas we are probably short is in the striker position.
Auba, Nketiah, Balogun and Lacazette doesn;t look too good.
Two of those (Auba and Laca) are getting older and one of those is in the last year of his contract, whilst we can only hope the other regains some form. But even if he does we're in the circus of his last year again in 12 months.
Nketiah didn't take the limited chances he had in the first team last year. I don't hold out much hope for him being a 20 goal man this year.
Balogun - who knows. Looked poor in his pre season game, but early days.
jayramfootball
Herbert Chapman
Herbert Chapman
 
Posts: 12078
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:58 pm

I actually don't think there is anything wrong with our attackers at all ...............

Its just how they're being deployed.

Do you think a front two LF & RF of Auba and Pepe wouldn't do damage?

The issue is Pepe is out wide so can only get into scoring positions now and again and Auba is being asked to play in the post (to use an NBA term) and play as a CF.

Auba is suited to the classic Henry attack line of coming in off the left and occassionally swooping into the middle, not standing between two CB's like Giroud used to.

If Auba was at Liverpool playing in their 4-3-3 he'd play in Manes position of LWF and be smashing it.
Image
User avatar
DiamondGooner
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 25971
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am
Location: At the Gucci store

PreviousNext

Return to Arsenal Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: swipe right and 4 guests