Aaron Ramsey

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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby theHotHead » Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:38 pm

Dynamite wrote:
Yago wrote:Ritchie? Herrera? I dunno, but are you sure about this list?


Well, it's what Sports Direct announced for the UK :dontknow: there wasn't much more information just the list.

Mate don't post pointless shite, it makes your argument look silly and people are less likely to take your posts serious. Taking into account sales from Sports Direct only, Goodness gracious man !!!! there are so many things wrong with that I am offended that you would actually try to pass that off as some sort of stat FFS.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby Yago » Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:13 pm

theHotHead wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
UFGN wrote:I can't believe what I'm reading

Apparently we were as good as City and only lacked a leader

Most severe case of Gooner Goggles I've ever seen.


That's probably because you can't read ..... "over the last six years with the exception of last season when frankly City moved a mile ahead we had a squad as good or better than anyone else in the EPL " .... remember before 2017/18 every pundit, player, manager and a whole load of fans had us nailed on as contenders ... now suddenly you're saying that all that time we were rubbish? is that right?

Just to show you that you really are truly clueless .... here are the total points gained over those five years 2012 - 2017

Chelsea - 388
City - 387
Arsenal - 373
Spurs - 361
Utd - 358
Liverpool - 343


OK, I'm going to bite. Firstly, Man U didn't get fewer points than us because they had a worse squad, it was because they under-performed and their managers have been a bit crackers.

Now for the absolute piss taking comment - that Arsenal had the second best squad in the league behind Man City, for the past 5 years, the easiest way to work out if that is true is by asking the question, how many Arsenal players would get in other so-called top teams teams and vice versa. So I will list all of the main players in the last 5 seasons, the players that had 10 or more league appearances, for the clubs in question:

Arsenal:
Shezza, Diaby, Sagna, Merts, Vermaelen, Kos, Rosicky, Arteta, Podolski, Wilshere, A Santos, Giroud, Walcott, Oxo, Ramsey, Monreal, Cazorla, Coquelin, Arshavin, Mannone, Jenkinson, Gervinho, Gibbs, Ozil, Flamini, Fabianski, Sanogo, Bendtner, Gnabry, Sanchez, Chambers, Welbeck, Bellerin, Gabriel, J Campbell, Cech, Xhaka. (37 players)

Man U:
De Gea, Rafael, Evra, Jones, Ferdinand, Evans, Valencia, Rooney, Giggs, Smalling, Vidic, Carrick, Young, Welbeck, RVP, Cleverly, Kagawa, Mata, Fellaini, Januzaj, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Falcao, Blind, Herrera, McNair, Depay, Martial, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Lingard, Darmian, Rashford, Bailly, Pogba, Ibrahimovic, Mkhi. (38 players)

Chelsea:
Torres, Mata, Oscar, Cech, Ramires, Hazard, Ivanovic, Luiz, A Cole, Lampard, Azpilicueta, Cahill, Moses, Mikel, Bertrand, Terry, Ba, Schurrle, Willian, Eto'o, Matic, Salah, Fabregas, Courtois, Costa, Begovic, Zouma, B Rahman, Pedro, Alonso, Kante, (31 players)

Liverpool:
G Johnson, J Enrique, Agger, Suarez, Gerrard, Coutinho, Henderson, Sturridge, Downing, Lucas, Carragher, J Allen, Reina, Borini, Suso, Sterling, Shelvey, Skrtel, A Wisdom, K Toure, M Sakho, A Cissokho, Mignolet, Flanagan, Lovren, Moreno, J Manquillo, Lallana, Can, Balotelli, Markovic, Clyne, Milner, Benteke, Firmino, Ibe, Karius, Wijnaldum, Klavan, Mane, Origi, Matip (42 players)

Spurs:
Walker, Vertonghen, Bale, Lennon, Defoe, Lloris, Dembele, Adebayor, Caulker, Sandro, Siggurdsson, Parker, Naughton, Gallas, Freidel, Assou-Ekotto, Huddlestone, Rose, Kaboul, Chiriches, Paulinho, Soldado, Holtby, Capoue, A Townsend, Dawson, Chadli, Eriksen, Bentaleb, Fazio, Dier, Mason, Lamela, Kane, Alderweireld, Son, Alli, B Davies, Wanyama (39 players)

Now, thats your lot. What we need to do next is identify how many from each list would strengthen squads. To remove arguments if a players was at any time considered a top player and they move clubs they must still be counted as top players or good enough to strengthen any squad. Average players are NOT to be counted. So with that said, my numbers (subjective I know) look like this:

Arsenal
Top players - 8. Squad players - 11

Man U
Top players - 15. Squad players - 11

Chelsea
Top players - 17. Squad players - 5

Liverpool
Top players - 11. Squad players - 4

Spurs
Top players - 9. Squad players - 5

My numbers show Arsenal were nowhere near having the next best squad after Man City !!


I mean, this whole post is arbitrary. I have no idea who the 8 top players we supposedly had were, let alone those from other teams. You could basically make those numbers up.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby theHotHead » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:01 pm

I did say it was subjective - but I also posted a list of all of the players from each clubs, so it shouldn't be difficult to work out what 85% of what my subjective views are, it should be obvious. Some will be contentious but it depends on your point of view. for example, my 8 top Arsenal players are:
Sagna, Merts, Kos, Rosicky, Cazorla, Ozil, Sanchez and Cech. I could've put Vermelen because he was at one point a decent defender but thats arguable.

Squad players were:
Vermaelen, Arteta, Podolski, Wilshere, Giroud, Walcott, Ramsey, Monreal, Arshavin, Flamini, Bellerin. Could possibly have put Oxo but again thats arguable.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby Yago » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:13 pm

Ramsey was a key player for us, there's no arguing that. Much more important than Per, Rosicky and Cech. It's also kind of difficult to compare people when we're talking about a 5 year period.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby EliteKiller » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:21 pm

theHotHead wrote: OK, I'm going to bite. Firstly, Man U didn't get fewer points than us because they had a worse squad, it was because they under-performed and their managers have been a bit crackers.

Now for the absolute piss taking comment - that Arsenal had the second best squad in the league behind Man City, for the past 5 years, the easiest way to work out if that is true is by asking the question, how many Arsenal players would get in other so-called top teams teams and vice versa. So I will list all of the main players in the last 5 seasons, the players that had 10 or more league appearances, for the clubs in question:

Arsenal:
Shezza, Diaby, Sagna, Merts, Vermaelen, Kos, Rosicky, Arteta, Podolski, Wilshere, A Santos, Giroud, Walcott, Oxo, Ramsey, Monreal, Cazorla, Coquelin, Arshavin, Mannone, Jenkinson, Gervinho, Gibbs, Ozil, Flamini, Fabianski, Sanogo, Bendtner, Gnabry, Sanchez, Chambers, Welbeck, Bellerin, Gabriel, J Campbell, Cech, Xhaka. (37 players)

Man U:
De Gea, Rafael, Evra, Jones, Ferdinand, Evans, Valencia, Rooney, Giggs, Smalling, Vidic, Carrick, Young, Welbeck, RVP, Cleverly, Kagawa, Mata, Fellaini, Januzaj, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Falcao, Blind, Herrera, McNair, Depay, Martial, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Lingard, Darmian, Rashford, Bailly, Pogba, Ibrahimovic, Mkhi. (38 players)

Chelsea:
Torres, Mata, Oscar, Cech, Ramires, Hazard, Ivanovic, Luiz, A Cole, Lampard, Azpilicueta, Cahill, Moses, Mikel, Bertrand, Terry, Ba, Schurrle, Willian, Eto'o, Matic, Salah, Fabregas, Courtois, Costa, Begovic, Zouma, B Rahman, Pedro, Alonso, Kante, (31 players)

Liverpool:
G Johnson, J Enrique, Agger, Suarez, Gerrard, Coutinho, Henderson, Sturridge, Downing, Lucas, Carragher, J Allen, Reina, Borini, Suso, Sterling, Shelvey, Skrtel, A Wisdom, K Toure, M Sakho, A Cissokho, Mignolet, Flanagan, Lovren, Moreno, J Manquillo, Lallana, Can, Balotelli, Markovic, Clyne, Milner, Benteke, Firmino, Ibe, Karius, Wijnaldum, Klavan, Mane, Origi, Matip (42 players)

Spurs:
Walker, Vertonghen, Bale, Lennon, Defoe, Lloris, Dembele, Adebayor, Caulker, Sandro, Siggurdsson, Parker, Naughton, Gallas, Freidel, Assou-Ekotto, Huddlestone, Rose, Kaboul, Chiriches, Paulinho, Soldado, Holtby, Capoue, A Townsend, Dawson, Chadli, Eriksen, Bentaleb, Fazio, Dier, Mason, Lamela, Kane, Alderweireld, Son, Alli, B Davies, Wanyama (39 players)

Now, thats your lot. What we need to do next is identify how many from each list would strengthen squads. To remove arguments if a players was at any time considered a top player and they move clubs they must still be counted as top players or good enough to strengthen any squad. Average players are NOT to be counted. So with that said, my numbers (subjective I know) look like this:

Arsenal
Top players - 8. Squad players - 11

Man U
Top players - 15. Squad players - 11

Chelsea
Top players - 17. Squad players - 5

Liverpool
Top players - 11. Squad players - 4

Spurs
Top players - 9. Squad players - 5

My numbers show Arsenal were nowhere near having the next best squad after Man City !!


Excellent post ... at least you made the effort to have a reasoned debate not just a UFGN style c*** -off ... I didn't say we had the second best squad just "as good if not better" and for most of those five seasons I believe that was true, but it is off course totally subjective ....

Although I don't agree with all your conclusions (Utd 15 top players?) I do get your point that many top players would walk into the Arsenal squad, my view is that it's our players that have seriously under-performed, and that in fact given proper management and coaching they are as good if not better than the players at other clubs ... let's hope after a wasted decade we now start to see that ....

My main point remains the same - we lack an on-field leader Hazard - KDB - Kante - Pogba same goes for Liverpool and Spurs which is why they fall at the last hurdle ...

It's not Ozil, not Ramsey nor was it Wilshere .... it might be what Emery sees in Xhaka .... personally I think we need to buy one ...
Last edited by EliteKiller on Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby Fran Solo » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:25 am

EliteKiller wrote:
theHotHead wrote: OK, I'm going to bite. Firstly, Man U didn't get fewer points than us because they had a worse squad, it was because they under-performed and their managers have been a bit crackers.

Now for the absolute piss taking comment - that Arsenal had the second best squad in the league behind Man City, for the past 5 years, the easiest way to work out if that is true is by asking the question, how many Arsenal players would get in other so-called top teams teams and vice versa. So I will list all of the main players in the last 5 seasons, the players that had 10 or more league appearances, for the clubs in question:

Arsenal:
Shezza, Diaby, Sagna, Merts, Vermaelen, Kos, Rosicky, Arteta, Podolski, Wilshere, A Santos, Giroud, Walcott, Oxo, Ramsey, Monreal, Cazorla, Coquelin, Arshavin, Mannone, Jenkinson, Gervinho, Gibbs, Ozil, Flamini, Fabianski, Sanogo, Bendtner, Gnabry, Sanchez, Chambers, Welbeck, Bellerin, Gabriel, J Campbell, Cech, Xhaka. (37 players)

Man U:
De Gea, Rafael, Evra, Jones, Ferdinand, Evans, Valencia, Rooney, Giggs, Smalling, Vidic, Carrick, Young, Welbeck, RVP, Cleverly, Kagawa, Mata, Fellaini, Januzaj, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Falcao, Blind, Herrera, McNair, Depay, Martial, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Lingard, Darmian, Rashford, Bailly, Pogba, Ibrahimovic, Mkhi. (38 players)

Chelsea:
Torres, Mata, Oscar, Cech, Ramires, Hazard, Ivanovic, Luiz, A Cole, Lampard, Azpilicueta, Cahill, Moses, Mikel, Bertrand, Terry, Ba, Schurrle, Willian, Eto'o, Matic, Salah, Fabregas, Courtois, Costa, Begovic, Zouma, B Rahman, Pedro, Alonso, Kante, (31 players)

Liverpool:
G Johnson, J Enrique, Agger, Suarez, Gerrard, Coutinho, Henderson, Sturridge, Downing, Lucas, Carragher, J Allen, Reina, Borini, Suso, Sterling, Shelvey, Skrtel, A Wisdom, K Toure, M Sakho, A Cissokho, Mignolet, Flanagan, Lovren, Moreno, J Manquillo, Lallana, Can, Balotelli, Markovic, Clyne, Milner, Benteke, Firmino, Ibe, Karius, Wijnaldum, Klavan, Mane, Origi, Matip (42 players)

Spurs:
Walker, Vertonghen, Bale, Lennon, Defoe, Lloris, Dembele, Adebayor, Caulker, Sandro, Siggurdsson, Parker, Naughton, Gallas, Freidel, Assou-Ekotto, Huddlestone, Rose, Kaboul, Chiriches, Paulinho, Soldado, Holtby, Capoue, A Townsend, Dawson, Chadli, Eriksen, Bentaleb, Fazio, Dier, Mason, Lamela, Kane, Alderweireld, Son, Alli, B Davies, Wanyama (39 players)

Now, thats your lot. What we need to do next is identify how many from each list would strengthen squads. To remove arguments if a players was at any time considered a top player and they move clubs they must still be counted as top players or good enough to strengthen any squad. Average players are NOT to be counted. So with that said, my numbers (subjective I know) look like this:

Arsenal
Top players - 8. Squad players - 11

Man U
Top players - 15. Squad players - 11

Chelsea
Top players - 17. Squad players - 5

Liverpool
Top players - 11. Squad players - 4

Spurs
Top players - 9. Squad players - 5

My numbers show Arsenal were nowhere near having the next best squad after Man City !!


Excellent post ... at least you made the effort to have a reasoned debate not just a UFGN style c*** ... I didn't say we had the second best squad just "as good if not better" and for most of those five seasons I believe that was true, but it is off course totally subjective ....

Although I don't agree with all your conclusions (Utd 15 top players?) I do get your point that many top players would walk into the Arsenal squad, my view is that it's our players that have seriously under-performed, and that in fact given proper management and coaching they are as good if not better than the players at other clubs ... let's hope after a wasted decade we now start to see that ....

My main point remains the same - we lack an on-field leader Hazard - KDB - Kante - Pogba same goes for Liverpool and Spurs which is why they fall at the last hurdle ...

It's not Ozil, not Ramsey nor was it Wilshere .... it might be what Emery sees in Xhaka .... personally I think we need to buy one ...


Lichtsteiner. If he can play regularly off course.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby UFGN » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:17 am

EliteKiller wrote:
Excellent post ... at least you made the effort to have a reasoned debate not just a UFGN style c*** -off ... I didn't say we had the second best squad just "as good if not better"


:dizzy:

U Wot M9?

Gunna have to c*** you off there I'm afraid

:dizzy:
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby EliteKiller » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:18 am

UFGN wrote:
U Wot M9?

Gunna have to c*** you off there I'm afraid

:dizzy:


See you're adding zero to the debate as usual .... at least you're consistent .....
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby UFGN » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:48 am

EliteKiller wrote:
UFGN wrote:
U Wot M9?

Gunna have to c*** you off there I'm afraid

:dizzy:


See you're adding zero to the debate as usual .... at least you're consistent .....


You're giving zero to work with. That's kinda my point. This is not a debate, it's complete nonsense.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby Angelito » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:45 am

Okay, that's enough folks. No more bickering. There's nothing to be discussed here.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby Goonerz » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:09 pm

We already fcked up our wage bill by letting underperforming players run down their contracts and holding us to ransom.
We keep over paying our underperforming and undeserving players in wages. Ramsey is not going to be the last player to hold out for over the top wages. The cat is already out of the box.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby mel4 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:20 pm

How many other players are overpaid?
I think Ramsey is the last one bar Ozil. I'd say let Ramsey go if it is the last of our overpaid overhyped players in our squad if we can bring in potential gems like Torreira, Guendozi, in addition to a marquee signing.


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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:46 pm

Goonerz wrote:We already fcked up our wage bill by letting underperforming players run down their contracts and holding us to ransom.
We keep over paying our underperforming and undeserving players in wages. Ramsey is not going to be the last player to hold out for over the top wages. The cat is already out of the box.


Well as of now with AFC's stance on this matter ............ the proverbial cat is being put firmly back in the box.

Ramsey is being made an example of.

Fact is Ramsey tried to pull that crap with the new regime and the new regime said "sorry pal this is a new day", no more soft touch Arsenal, so I applaud them for it.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby Dynamite » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:18 pm

mel4 wrote:How many other players are overpaid?
I think Ramsey is the last one bar Ozil. I'd say let Ramsey go if it is the last of our overpaid overhyped players in our squad if we can bring in potential gems like Torreira, Guendozi, in addition to a marquee signing.


How is Ramsey overpaid he gets 10k less as Kola or Mkhitaryan ffs.
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Re: Aaron Ramsey (8)

Postby PairyGrows » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:38 pm

Honestly, it's surprising to see the fan base being torn on the Ramsey situation. I, for one, am very encouraged by the club's taking a firm stance on the issue and I fully support their decision.

Let's think about this. Ramsey is asking for £200,000 per week. He's about to turn 28. It'a unlikely he has lots of unused potential at this stage of his career. Furthermore, our budget doesn't allow for too much wiggle room. We simply can't afford to pay Ramsey what he's asking - he's not worth it.

All in all, I'm happy with the way Arsenal are handling Ramsey. If he wants the big money, he can go out and ask for it. In life you get what you deserve.
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