Aaron Ramsey

[Angelito]

So what season was it when Ramsey was always being played on the right?

The first time Wenger tried Ramsey as a RAM was 12/13.

He became a RW regular when Santi Cazorla started playing as a CM. End of 2014 until Santi's injury at around Nov/Dec in 2015. Whenever Santi was out, Ramsey played as a CM. When Santi was fit, Ramsey was moved to the right.

[Jedi]

So what season was it when Ramsey was always being played on the right?

I think you're talking about 14/15 when wenger was trying to shoehorn everyone into the team (Coquelin, Cazorla, Ramsey and Ozil)

[Va-Va-Voom]

Maybe.

All I know is he was AIDs on the right.

[Marsbar100]

Ramsey like ozil needs a team built around him, he hasn't really had that, last season was the first time for a lot of games he was playing with 2 more defensive minded midfielders and he caused havoc.

He can press, he has an engine to defend on the front foot and back foot and whilst he isn't a maestro and he wouldn't be your controller he is neat and tidy and can certainly help control a game.

Imo Lampard wouldn't have been as effective in a 4-2-3-1, when you have a player like this it makes sense to unleash them.

He has been inconsistent over the years but he has been asked to play multiple positions, played under a tactically poor manager and had on off injury issues.

[Santi]

Oh Ang I think I love you, someone that clearly gets it. Agree with every word you wrote.

[Angelito]

Ramsey like ozil needs a team built around him, he hasn't really had that, last season was the first time for a lot of games he was playing with 2 more defensive minded midfielders and he caused havoc.

What havoc causing are you talking about? He had his best season since 13/14 and that season coincided with the worst season Arsenal have had in 22 years.

Pogba, who was largely criticized last season, had a better season than Ramsey. If Ramsey caused havoc, Pogba must have burnt down the Theatre of Dreams with his flaming performances.

To bring the best out of Ramsey, you need a deep controller and a nimble B2B player, or you have to play him as a SS.

I don't know what Unai has planned. He usually plays a 4-2-3-1 (or a 4-2-2-2).

If it's a 4-3-3, Elneny - Xhaka - Ramsey is the best option from what we have.

In a 4-2-3-1, I'd assume Elneny - Wilshere, with Ramsey as a CAM is the way to go. But why should we play Ramsey as a CAM when we have two better CAMs?

This is the reason I dislike our midfield situation. We have uneven, lopsided midfielders who don't complement one another.

As you said, Ramsey has the engine. But the problem is, he doesn't use it. He's too busy roaming in and around the final third, where he is near world class. As a CM, however, he is not.

The reason he's toyed around in various positions is that Ramsey's goals and contribution in the attacking third are significant, but he becomes a liability as a central midfielder because he's too busy in the final third and leaves gaping holes behind him.

By the way, Lampard won the UCL in a 4-2-3-1. But Lampard was a freak. I've never seen any midfielder as prolific as him.

[Santi]

We're also just gonna have to balance out each ones weaknesses by playing a 3 man mid rather than putting together midfielders who compliment each other, all of ours have too many and too obvious flaws.

In fact I think Ramsey's is the easiest to cope with but as I've said before it means sacrificing our world class CAM, they shouldn't both be in the same team imo, regardless of what realtalk thinks of this Ramzil combo he always goes on about.

[Marsbar100]

Ramsey like ozil needs a team built around him, he hasn't really had that, last season was the first time for a lot of games he was playing with 2 more defensive minded midfielders and he caused havoc.

What havoc causing are you talking about? He had his best season since 13/14 and that season coincided with the worst season Arsenal have had in 22 years.

Pogba, who was largely criticized last season, had a better season than Ramsey. If Ramsey caused havoc, Pogba must have burnt down the Theatre of Dreams with his flaming performances.

To bring the best out of Ramsey, you need a deep controller and a nimble B2B player, or you have to play him as a SS.

I don't know what Unai has planned. He usually plays a 4-2-3-1 (or a 4-2-2-2).

If it's a 4-3-3, Elneny - Xhaka - Ramsey is the best option from what we have.

In a 4-2-3-1, I'd assume Elneny - Wilshere, with Ramsey as a CAM is the way to go. But why should we play Ramsey as a CAM when we have two better CAMs?

This is the reason I dislike our midfield situation. We have uneven, lopsided midfielders who don't complement one another.

As you said, Ramsey has the engine. But the problem is, he doesn't use it. He's too busy roaming in and around the final third, where he is near world class. As a CM, however, he is not.

The reason he's toyed around in various positions is that Ramsey's goals and contribution in the attacking third are significant, but he becomes a liability as a central midfielder because he's too busy in the final third and leaves gaping holes behind him.

By the way, Lampard won the UCL in a 4-2-3-1. But Lampard was a freak. I've never seen any midfielder as prolific as him.

He had 17 goals/assists in 24 pl games last season, how is that not causing havoc?

[Pudpop]

Saw this in the chit-chat thread - responding here:

So Ang has an irrational hate of Ramsey? Interesting to know

It surprised me as well

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Ramsey is positionally a CM but he doesn't play like one. He's poor man's Lampard, minus the positional awareness and overall class.

When I said Ramsey isn't a CM, I meant his style of play. Ramsey can be world class in the final third but he leaves the team unbalanced. Simply put, we wouldn't have had to buy Ozil and Cazorla if Ramsey and Wilshere had done their jobs. They were supposed to be the "heirs" to Cesc and Nasri.

Wenger saw Ramsey as a long-term replacement of Cesc at CAM and Wilshere as a CM. But Ramsey was awful in 11/12 - so much so that he was dropped by Wenger. Ramsey finally had his breakthrough season in 13/14. He was superb that season and we might have won the league had he remained fit throughout. We all expected Ramsey to do what he did best in 2013: play as a CM, who made those late runs and offered his workrate - in subsequent seasons. But no, he started playing like a false #9 after that. It's not surprising that he's never been able to capture that form and since then has largely been inconsistent.

Yet, even in 13/14, Ramsey didn't have a famed season for bossing the midfield. His ability to has been more or less erratic always. In 13/14, his phenomenal output papered over his usual weaknesses. And heck who cares about his weaknesses when a CM could score or create as he did that season. But numbers don't lie:

Since then, Ramsey has scored 6, 5, 1, and 7 goals. His assist tally: 6, 4, 4, and 8.

Since 13/14, last season was his best season.

Now, Ramsey isn't a controller. He hasn't been a proper B2B player since 13/14. He's not a CAM. He's not a DLP. He's a player who starts at central midfield but doesn't play like one. It's telling that Wenger opted to play Santi Cazorla as a CM over Ramsey from 14/15. He realized that Ramsey would never be able to boss the midfield as a CM. He was too reliant on outputs.

Tbh, isn't it revealing that we've all been screaming for a world class CM? Why would we be if Ramsey did his job properly?

Check these stats—Ramsey against Pogba—from Ramsey's best season for us against last season's Pogba:

Ramsey's best season ever isn't quite off Pogba's first season in England - save for the goals and assists.

Ramsey scored 10, assisted 8 in 13/14.

I like Ramsey and his two winning goals in FA Cup finals will ensure that he's remembered as an icon here. But the man definitely can't hold our midfield together. Midfield is still out weakest part and it isn't aided by Ramsey playing as a false #9, nor by Xhaka or Wilshere. Wilshere had the raw talent but he's done now. Ramsey isn't a conventional CM like Verratti or Modric. He's a CM who plays like a CAM yet can't produce in the numbers of a CAM. Sometimes he reminds me of Muller tbh. He should have been groomed as a secondary striker, or like Dele Alli.

That said, I think Klopp could use Ramsey excellently because unlike us, Liverpool upper heads and Klopp have shown ambition and the desire to fix errors in their squad as they see fit. We've persisted with an unstable midfield since Cesc-Flamini. Cazorla-Coquelin was the closest we've come to having any midfield.

God, when was the last time we bought a decent CM?

Where are the stats for tackles and interceptions? I remember Ramsey having great defensive stats in 2013. I made a point of pointing that out throughout the season saying that his goals were really just icing on the cake of his true performances.

I distinctly remember the City game where we lost but Ramsey still shined against a Prime Yaya Toure

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Angelito]

Oh Ang I think I love you, someone that clearly gets it. Agree with every word you wrote.

He had 17 goals/assists in 24 pl games last season, how is that not causing havoc?

7 goals and 8 assists.

Overall, 11 goals and 9 assists.

By comparison, Ozil had 8 assists and 5 goals.

Overall, 12 assists and 5 goals.

Ramsey was good. But if Ramsey "caused havoc," then surely nobody can criticize Ozil's performance too because Ozil had an "underwhelming" season accto many.

The double standard irks me. I know the expectation is higher with Ozil but most Arsenal players get a free pass, except Ozil.

On a different note, the increasing trend of sentences starting with, "Sell Ozil," is also alarming.

Where are the stats for tackles and interceptions? I remember Ramsey having great defensive stats in 2013. I made a point of pointing that out throughout the season saying that his goals were really just icing on the cake of his true performances.

I distinctly remember the City game where we lost but Ramsey still shined against a Prime Yaya Toure

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Ramsey's great defensive stats are from 15/16 primarily. He played partly as a CM and partly as a RW'er at the time.

As I mentioned in my post, Ramsey did play as a B2B in 13/14. That can't be denied. But for someone who is apparently hailed for being a B2B and for someone who is slammed for not performing his defensive duties, there's not a lot between Ramsey's best season and Pogba's first season (at ManU).

Of course, Ramsey's interceptions have always been good. He's good at it. He also loses the ball due to a bad touch and quickly recovers it, which adds to his defensive stats.

[Va-Va-Voom]

No, Ramsey's best defensive work was from 13/14.

I remember before he got injured he was 2nd in the league for most tackles won.

Ramsey’s 65 total tackles ranked 17th in the league, despite his missing three and a half months with a thigh injury. He also tackled at a tidy 57 percent success rate, especially impressive given the increased difficulty of tackling higher up the field.

[Angelito]

Just checked. You're right. Except for interceptions and blocks, his defensive game in 13/14 was at another level.

Not surprised. Ramsey was at his best in 13/14.

Never been able to replicate the same form or style though. You have to agree.

[Marsbar100]

He had 17 goals/assists in 24 pl games last season, how is that not causing havoc?

7 goals and 8 assists.

Overall, 11 goals and 9 assists.

By comparison, Ozil had 8 assists and 5 goals.

Overall, 12 assists and 5 goals.

Ramsey was good. But if Ramsey "caused havoc," then surely nobody can criticize Ozil's performance too because Ozil had an "underwhelming" season accto many.

The double standard irks me. I know the expectation is higher with Ozil but most Arsenal players get a free pass, except Ozil.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/aaron-ram ... eler/50057

According to transfer market market ramsey got 11 goals and 12 assists all comps, if they are wrong fair enough, let's bare in mind though ramsey def played less games and an assist doesn't have the same value as a goal.

Forgetting stats anyway ozil was great be for he signed an extension, after that he was shit, you cant turn up for half a season hear and there on 300k

[Angelito]

He had 17 goals/assists in 24 pl games last season, how is that not causing havoc?

7 goals and 8 assists.

Overall, 11 goals and 9 assists.

By comparison, Ozil had 8 assists and 5 goals.

Overall, 12 assists and 5 goals.

Ramsey was good. But if Ramsey "caused havoc," then surely nobody can criticize Ozil's performance too because Ozil had an "underwhelming" season accto many.

The double standard irks me. I know the expectation is higher with Ozil but most Arsenal players get a free pass, except Ozil.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/aaron-ram ... eler/50057

According to transfer market market ramsey got 11 goals and 12 assists all comps, if they are wrong fair enough, let's bare in mind though ramsey def played less games and an assist doesn't have the same value as a goal.

Forgetting stats anyway ozil was great be for he signed an extension, after that he was shit, you cant turn up for half a season hear and there on 300k

Transfermarkt aren't reliable when it comes to such stats. They have a very lose understanding of what an assist is.

And you last para is exactly what's wrong. Ozil only had fewer goals than Ramsey, but Ramsey was apparently "wrecking havoc," yet Ozil was so-so before becoming, "shit."

Need to make up your mind on every player. The bar can't be subjective.

On his wages, Ozil warranted his wages for being the best CAM in the world—remember, only Messi has more assists than Ozil since they started playing. Let Ramsey be the best CM in the world. We would all happily pay him £300k a week.

[Va-Va-Voom]

No one is asking for Ramsey to be paid 300k a week.