Aaron Ramsey

[Phil71]

My God.

Can you imagine getting that lot out in the pub.

[theHotHead]

Pudpop just laid down brimstone and fire, the likes of which we last saw when the US bombed Saddam Hussein's clart !!!

Good luck to anyone that tries to combat that.

[Ach]

Let this mark the end of all Ozil haters

[Yago]

Pudpop is clueless and his post doesn't mean anything.

[Dynamite]

Why did you not include the first PL season cause it's another below average one for Özil while Ramsey had a really good one?
Ramsey 176 per goal
Ramsey 196 per assist
Özil 430 per goal
Özil 215 per assist

Nearly most of them aren't even CAMs like Mahrez, Cesc, Pogba, Ramsey or Mata ffs!
Özil having this stats while doing nearly f**k all for the defence unlike Silva, Eriksen, Mata or Ramsey.
Where are the defence stats per 90min?
Why did you even include Ramsey, he barely played CAM? To have a dig at him cause with his defence duties he can't match completely the Özil assist rates?
None of this players earn 350k a week AFAIK.

So what the f**k is this bar a selective Pro-Özil posting?

And what are these stupid expected stats per 90 minutes?

[Pudpop]

Why did you not include the first PL season cause it's another below average one for Özil while Ramsey had a really good one?
Ramsey 176 per goal
Ramsey 196 per assist
Özil 430 per goal
Özil 215 per assist

understat.com only started collecting in 2014/15. Had I had 13/14's stats I would have included them. Also, I wasn't trying to disparage Ramsey in this post. I only included him because the thread is actually about him, so I didn't exclude any data to favour Ozil or disadvantage Ramsey.

Nearly most of them aren't even CAMs like Mahrez, Cesc, Pogba, Ramsey or Mata ffs!

Oh, ok. So you didn't actually read my post, did you? You just looked at the pretty pictures and got triggered then?

Özil having this stats while doing nearly f**k all for the defence unlike Silva, Eriksen, Mata or Ramsey.
Where are the defence stats per 90min?

I only included the correct stats to disprove what you claimed about his goals and assists being 'bang average'. You didn't include any defensive stats for me to dispute.

Also, if understat had them readily available I would have included them, but I didn't feel like going through 50+ whoscored webpages just to prove a point that doesn't need to be proven.

Why did you even include Ramsey, he barely played CAM? To have a dig at him cause with his defence duties he can't match completely the Özil assist rates?

The conversation is about Ramsey and Ozil? If you actually read my post you'd see I thought (and still think) Ramsey had it in him to be a great CM but ended up playing further up the pitch instead, and further up the pitch his stats don't compare to either CAMs or to goalscoring players, so he isn't good enough in that position. There is no point in my post where I am having a dig at Ramsey.

None of this players earn 350k a week AFAIK.

So what the f**k is this bar a selective Pro-Özil posting?

Selective? I included every player I could think of in the Premier League who could reasonably be compared to him and showed the same stats you did but weighted for minutes played. As always, I'm posting stats in response to someone (you) using them incorrectly. That's what this post is. If you used the stats correctly I wouldn't have joined this, frankly, useless conversation.

And what are these stupid expected stats per 90 minutes?

Expected goals per 90 is essentially the same as shots per 90, except shots are weighted for the how good a chance was, ie a shot from the halfway line counts less than a shot from the 6 yard box.

Expected assists is the same thing but from when a player passes the ball to the person who shoots, ie if I pass to you on the halfway line and you shoot, it counts less for me than if i were to set you up for a tap in on the six yard line.

Pudpop is clueless and his post doesn't mean anything.

Cheers, mate. You too.

[EliteKiller]

I think we can quote stats and comparisons all day long ....

In 2013/14 Yaya Toure drove a decent but not world beating City side to the title ... Ozil drove as good an Arsenal squad to 4th place
In 2014/15 Eden Hazard drove a decent but not world beating Chelsea side to the title ... Ozil drove as good an Arsenal squad to 3rd place
In 2015/16 N'Golo Kante drove a very average Leicester side to the title ... Ozil drove a far better Arsenal squad to 2nd place
In 2016/17 N'Golo Kante drove a decent but not world beating Chelsea side to the title ... Ozil drove as good an Arsenal squad to 5th place
In 2017/18 Kevin De Bruyne drove a world beating City side to the title ... Ozil drove a decent Arsenal squad to 6th place

Bottom line .... title winning sides do need a 350k a week superstar player who drives their squad to title winning success .... Ozil has never looked like doing that during his entire Arsenal career ... good, indeed very good ... but in the EPL just not a true great ....

[Pudpop]

I think we can quote stats and comparisons all day long ....

In 2013/14 Yaya Toure drove a decent but not world beating City side to the title ... Ozil drove as good an Arsenal squad to 4th place
In 2014/15 Eden Hazard drove a decent but not world beating Chelsea side to the title ... Ozil drove as good an Arsenal squad to 3rd place
In 2015/16 N'Golo Kante drove a very average Leicester side to the title ... Ozil drove a far better Arsenal squad to 2nd place
In 2016/17 N'Golo Kante drove a decent but not world beating Chelsea side to the title ... Ozil drove as good an Arsenal squad to 5th place
In 2017/18 Kevin De Bruyne drove a world beating City side to the title ... Ozil drove a decent Arsenal squad to 6th place

Bottom line .... title winning sides do need a 350k a week superstar player who drives their squad to title winning success .... Ozil has never looked like doing that during his entire Arsenal career ... good, indeed very good ... but in the EPL just not a true great ....

At best, this is revisionism. At worst, it's framing anything Ozil did as a failure because we as a team didn't win the leage, completely ignoring any other factors such as Arsene Wenger.

Secondly, saying our team in 2013/14 was as good as City's is not true. This is the same for 2014/15 and 2016/17. In none of those seasons did we have a world class striker. All three teams to win the league did (Aguero, Costa, Costa). Also, we did not lost the title in 2013/14 because of our attack. That was never the case. We scored more than enough goals. We finished 4th with 79 points (our highest since 2008 iirc) because we didn't have a defence and were hopeless away from home against the big teams.

Lastly, Ozil's performance in 2015/16 is unparalleled in the Premier league in terms of creation. He was on 16 assists in December, put up similar passings stats for the rest of the season but the rest of the team choked. Even in the games where our season fell apart (United and Swansea) he made 10 key passes over the 2 games, and had a goal and assist at Old Trafford ('but he never turns up for the big games???'). Implying that Ozil didn't do everything humanly possible to win us the league in 2015/16 is completely false. We lost the league because Giroud went on an extended goal drought and Wenger never instilled a ruthless mentality in the team nor addressed our defensive issues.

'Ozil has never looked like doing that during his entire Arsenal career'

It's just not true.

[EliteKiller]

At best, this is revisionism. At worst, it's framing anything Ozil did as a failure because we as a team didn't win the leage, completely ignoring any other factors such as Arsene Wenger.

Secondly, saying our team in 2013/14 was as good as City's is not true. This is the same for 2014/15 and 2016/17. In none of those seasons did we have a world class striker. All three teams to win the league did (Aguero, Costa, Costa). Also, we did not lost the title in 2013/14 because of our attack. That was never the case. We scored more than enough goals. We finished 4th with 79 points (our highest since 2008 iirc) because we didn't have a defence and were hopeless away from home against the big teams.

Lastly, Ozil's performance in 2015/16 is unparalleled in the Premier league in terms of creation. He was on 16 assists in December, put up similar passings stats for the rest of the season but the rest of the team choked. Even in the games where our season fell apart (United and Swansea) he made 10 key passes over the 2 games, and had a goal and assist at Old Trafford ('but he never turns up for the big games???'). Implying that Ozil didn't do everything humanly possible to win us the league in 2015/16 is completely false. We lost the league because Giroud went on an extended goal drought and Wenger never instilled a ruthless mentality in the team nor addressed our defensive issues.

'Ozil has never looked like doing that during his entire Arsenal career'

It's just not true.

What an entirely predictable response ... I could have written it for you ... it's not Ozil's fault, the team was shit, the manager was shit, the fans were all c**** ... funny thing is TRULY GREAT PLAYERS actually carry their team mates forward they don't get dragged down to their level ...

I get it you're saying Arsenal were shit (can't find your posts saying that from 2104/2015/2016/2017/2018 but no doubt you told us that at the time) .... Ozil was, is, and always will be, the best player in the EPL .....

Delusional or what?

[Pudpop]

At best, this is revisionism. At worst, it's framing anything Ozil did as a failure because we as a team didn't win the leage, completely ignoring any other factors such as Arsene Wenger.

Secondly, saying our team in 2013/14 was as good as City's is not true. This is the same for 2014/15 and 2016/17. In none of those seasons did we have a world class striker. All three teams to win the league did (Aguero, Costa, Costa). Also, we did not lost the title in 2013/14 because of our attack. That was never the case. We scored more than enough goals. We finished 4th with 79 points (our highest since 2008 iirc) because we didn't have a defence and were hopeless away from home against the big teams.

Lastly, Ozil's performance in 2015/16 is unparalleled in the Premier league in terms of creation. He was on 16 assists in December, put up similar passings stats for the rest of the season but the rest of the team choked. Even in the games where our season fell apart (United and Swansea) he made 10 key passes over the 2 games, and had a goal and assist at Old Trafford ('but he never turns up for the big games???'). Implying that Ozil didn't do everything humanly possible to win us the league in 2015/16 is completely false. We lost the league because Giroud went on an extended goal drought and Wenger never instilled a ruthless mentality in the team nor addressed our defensive issues.

'Ozil has never looked like doing that during his entire Arsenal career'

It's just not true.

What an entirely predictable response ... I could have written it for you ... it's not Ozil's fault, the team was shit, the manager was shit, the fans were all c*** ... funny thing is TRULY GREAT PLAYERS actually carry their team mates forward they don't get dragged down to their level ...

I get it you're saying Arsenal were shit (can't find your posts saying that from 2104/2015/2016/2017/2018 but no doubt you told us that at the time) .... Ozil was, is, and always will be, the best player in the EPL .....

Delusional or what?

Firstly, this is a complete strawman of what I just said.

Secondly, there are plenty of posts of mine saying how bad our defence was in all of those seasons, as well as me saying that Giroud wasn't good enough for us to win the league. These weren't controversial opinions.

Lastly, my response is predictable because I've made those points multiple times, and the only response I've ever received is 'that's just making excuses'. In now way does my predicatability detract from my argument.

[CaptGooner]

Pudpop- wouldn’t bother with these wind ups.

Doesn’t matter that your posts are fact based and professional. They will just resort to name calling when proven wrong.

[thebigbangtheo]

Pudpop- wouldn’t bother with these wind ups.

Doesn’t matter that your posts are fact based and professional. They will just resort to name calling when proven wrong.

Got to go with the Captain on this one Pud. Like a field surgeon who's fought the ultimately futile fight to save a blown up squadie, you need to call time on this.

To try and reason with anyone who is by nature unreasonable, is but an abject lesson in futility.

[Zedie]

Pudpop- wouldn’t bother with these wind ups.

Doesn’t matter that your posts are fact based and professional. They will just resort to name calling when proven wrong.

Got to go with the Captain on this one Pud. Like a field surgeon who's fought the ultimately futile fight to save a blown up squadie, you need to call time on this.

To try and reason with anyone who is by nature unreasonable, is but an abject lesson in futility.

Ditto. You really couldn't spell it out any more clear. Some people have to stick to their agenda and not stray from that course regardless of how ridiculous their argument looks or becomes.

Oh well.

[theHotHead]

Why did you not include the first PL season cause it's another below average one for Özil while Ramsey had a really good one?
Ramsey 176 per goal
Ramsey 196 per assist
Özil 430 per goal
Özil 215 per assist

Nearly most of them aren't even CAMs like Mahrez, Cesc, Pogba, Ramsey or Mata ffs!
Özil having this stats while doing nearly f**k all for the defence unlike Silva, Eriksen, Mata or Ramsey.
Where are the defence stats per 90min?
Why did you even include Ramsey, he barely played CAM? To have a dig at him cause with his defence duties he can't match completely the Özil assist rates?
None of this players earn 350k a week AFAIK.

So what the f**k is this bar a selective Pro-Özil posting?

And what are these stupid expected stats per 90 minutes?

What abiut his defensive stats?? Thought we were talking about his offensive stats. Feel free to move the goalposts as much as you want if it helps.

[theHotHead]

I think we can quote stats and comparisons all day long ....

In 2013/14 Yaya Toure drove a decent but not world beating City side to the title ... Ozil drove as good an Arsenal squad to 4th place
In 2014/15 Eden Hazard drove a decent but not world beating Chelsea side to the title ... Ozil drove as good an Arsenal squad to 3rd place
In 2015/16 N'Golo Kante drove a very average Leicester side to the title ... Ozil drove a far better Arsenal squad to 2nd place
In 2016/17 N'Golo Kante drove a decent but not world beating Chelsea side to the title ... Ozil drove as good an Arsenal squad to 5th place
In 2017/18 Kevin De Bruyne drove a world beating City side to the title ... Ozil drove a decent Arsenal squad to 6th place

Bottom line .... title winning sides do need a 350k a week superstar player who drives their squad to title winning success .... Ozil has never looked like doing that during his entire Arsenal career ... good, indeed very good ... but in the EPL just not a true great ....

EK come better than that. The one thing that Arsenal fans for the past 8 years have complained about is the underspending, the squad quality erosion and the poor state of the Arsenal squad and you are trying to say Arsenal's squad was on a par with Chelsea and Man City's?!!!

As for Leicester, nobody had any explanation as to why Liverpool, Man U, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal wete so shite that season, it was an anomaly, nobody can give you a sensible answer so you cannot pin the blame on Ozil, that is called clutching straws my friend.

Secondly, saying our team in 2013/14 was as good as City's is not true. This is the same for 2014/15 and 2016/17. In none of those seasons did we have a world class striker. All three teams to win the league did (Aguero, Costa, Costa). Also, we did not lost the title in 2013/14 because of our attack. That was never the case. We scored more than enough goals. We finished 4th with 79 points (our highest since 2008 iirc) because we didn't have a defence and were hopeless away from home against the big teams.

And you completely ignored the above, choosing instead to lamely state it was a predictable response. Thats because it is true, but don't let the truth affect you.