Aaron Ramsey

[theHotHead]

Exactly, at the end of the day if you can get a good pairing that works roles are immaterial.

As for Kante not attacking, we are obviously talking abiut different Kantes, the Kante I am talking about bursts through midfield and ends up in advanced positions quite a lot for a holding midfielder. He certainly is no Makelele or Gilberto/Petit, staying in his own half all game.

Kante does not attack at all, i suppose he shuttles the ball forward after making record breaking tackle numbers if you count forward passes as attacking, but he never gets near the oppositions box and does all of his work in his own half, if anything his best comparison is Makelele.

He is certainly not a box to box midfielder, hes a DM with a stupidly high work rate.

Kante heat map's

Your first heat map shows exactly what Kante is. He works from the edge of his box to the edge of the opponent's box. Countless times I have seen him burst forward and play the ball wide then he hangs back to the edge of the box.

Clearly he is far more offensive than a straight DM/holding midfielder. Last season he had 25 shots in the Prem, the season before he had 27. No way he would have had that many shots on goal if he barely made it past the halfway line in games.

[KingChrome]

Exactly, at the end of the day if you can get a good pairing that works roles are immaterial.

As for Kante not attacking, we are obviously talking abiut different Kantes, the Kante I am talking about bursts through midfield and ends up in advanced positions quite a lot for a holding midfielder. He certainly is no Makelele or Gilberto/Petit, staying in his own half all game.

Kante does not attack at all, i suppose he shuttles the ball forward after making record breaking tackle numbers if you count forward passes as attacking, but he never gets near the oppositions box and does all of his work in his own half, if anything his best comparison is Makelele.

He is certainly not a box to box midfielder, hes a DM with a stupidly high work rate.

Kante heat map's

Your first heat map shows exactly what Kante is. He works from the edge of his box to the edge of the opponent's box. Countless times I have seen him burst forward and play the ball wide then he hangs back to the edge of the box.

Clearly he is far more offensive than a straight DM/holding midfielder. Last season he had 25 shots in the Prem, the season before he had 27. No way he would have had that many shots on goal if he barely made it past the halfway line in games.

It depends what you call 'offensive', i mean never entering the oppositions box is not offensive imo, the main difference between Kante and say Makelele is Makelele's game was based on positioning, Kantes is work rate, but other than that they are very similar, Kante does not spend very much time in the opposition half at all, he is the most defensive midfielder in the Premier League.

I don't remember any time seeing him hit a cross or take a shot, he just shuttles the ball forwards.

I mean if you class taking the ball and passing it forward as offensive, then you could call a goalkeeper offensive.

[thebigbangtheo]

Exactly, at the end of the day if you can get a good pairing that works roles are immaterial.

As for Kante not attacking, we are obviously talking abiut different Kantes, the Kante I am talking about bursts through midfield and ends up in advanced positions quite a lot for a holding midfielder. He certainly is no Makelele or Gilberto/Petit, staying in his own half all game.

Kante does not attack at all, i suppose he shuttles the ball forward after making record breaking tackle numbers if you count forward passes as attacking, but he never gets near the oppositions box and does all of his work in his own half, if anything his best comparison is Makelele.

He is certainly not a box to box midfielder, hes a DM with a stupidly high work rate.

Kante heat map's

Your first heat map shows exactly what Kante is. He works from the edge of his box to the edge of the opponent's box. Countless times I have seen him burst forward and play the ball wide then he hangs back to the edge of the box.

Clearly he is far more offensive than a straight DM/holding midfielder. Last season he had 25 shots in the Prem, the season before he had 27. No way he would have had that many shots on goal if he barely made it past the halfway line in games.

It depends what you call 'offensive', i mean never entering the oppositions box is not offensive imo, the main difference between Kante and say Makelele is Makelele's game was based on positioning, Kantes is work rate, but other than that they are very similar, Kante does not spend very much time in the opposition half at all, he is the most defensive midfielder in the Premier League.

I don't remember any time seeing him hit a cross or take a shot, he just shuttles the ball forwards.

I mean if you class taking the ball and passing it forward as offensive, then you could call a goalkeeper offensive.

If a keeper kicks the ball long and it travels to end up in the net, is that not both an offensive action and a goal?

When Bould and Adams combined for that iconic goal, did you redefine them as offensive players?

Is Pep Guardiola wrong for recognising the advantages to be gained from having a keeper that can a) play comfortably with the ball at his feet and initiate attacks and build up play as opposed to just clearing his lines with a hoof and turning possession of the ball into a 50/50 at best, and b) give his team 11 good outfield players on the pitch playing against 10 for the vast majority of games?

Whilst scoring and attempting to score are indeed the result of offensive actions, it is not to the exclusivity of those players in the offensive roles and positions.

[KingChrome]

Exactly, at the end of the day if you can get a good pairing that works roles are immaterial.

As for Kante not attacking, we are obviously talking abiut different Kantes, the Kante I am talking about bursts through midfield and ends up in advanced positions quite a lot for a holding midfielder. He certainly is no Makelele or Gilberto/Petit, staying in his own half all game.

Kante does not attack at all, i suppose he shuttles the ball forward after making record breaking tackle numbers if you count forward passes as attacking, but he never gets near the oppositions box and does all of his work in his own half, if anything his best comparison is Makelele.

He is certainly not a box to box midfielder, hes a DM with a stupidly high work rate.

Kante heat map's

Your first heat map shows exactly what Kante is. He works from the edge of his box to the edge of the opponent's box. Countless times I have seen him burst forward and play the ball wide then he hangs back to the edge of the box.

Clearly he is far more offensive than a straight DM/holding midfielder. Last season he had 25 shots in the Prem, the season before he had 27. No way he would have had that many shots on goal if he barely made it past the halfway line in games.

It depends what you call 'offensive', i mean never entering the oppositions box is not offensive imo, the main difference between Kante and say Makelele is Makelele's game was based on positioning, Kantes is work rate, but other than that they are very similar, Kante does not spend very much time in the opposition half at all, he is the most defensive midfielder in the Premier League.

I don't remember any time seeing him hit a cross or take a shot, he just shuttles the ball forwards.

I mean if you class taking the ball and passing it forward as offensive, then you could call a goalkeeper offensive.

If a keeper kicks the ball long and it travels to end up in the net, is that not both an offensive action and a goal?

When Bould and Adams combined for that iconic goal, did you redefine them as offensive players?

Is Pep Guardiola wrong for recognising the advantages to be gained from having a keeper that can a) play comfortably with the ball at his feet and initiate attacks and build up play as opposed to just clearing his lines with a hoof and turning possession of the ball into a 50/50 at best, and b) give his team 11 good outfield players on the pitch playing against 10 for the vast majority of games?

Whilst scoring and attempting to score are indeed the result of offensive actions, it is not to the exclusivity of those players in the offensive roles and positions.

Thats getting a bit silly, its kinda saying every player in the world is a offensive player if we are taking it that far

All i was trying to say was Kante is a defensive player, and not a box to box type like Gerrard/Lampard.

[theHotHead]

Exactly, at the end of the day if you can get a good pairing that works roles are immaterial.

As for Kante not attacking, we are obviously talking abiut different Kantes, the Kante I am talking about bursts through midfield and ends up in advanced positions quite a lot for a holding midfielder. He certainly is no Makelele or Gilberto/Petit, staying in his own half all game.

Kante does not attack at all, i suppose he shuttles the ball forward after making record breaking tackle numbers if you count forward passes as attacking, but he never gets near the oppositions box and does all of his work in his own half, if anything his best comparison is Makelele.

He is certainly not a box to box midfielder, hes a DM with a stupidly high work rate.

Kante heat map's

Your first heat map shows exactly what Kante is. He works from the edge of his box to the edge of the opponent's box. Countless times I have seen him burst forward and play the ball wide then he hangs back to the edge of the box.

Clearly he is far more offensive than a straight DM/holding midfielder. Last season he had 25 shots in the Prem, the season before he had 27. No way he would have had that many shots on goal if he barely made it past the halfway line in games.

It depends what you call 'offensive', i mean never entering the oppositions box is not offensive imo, the main difference between Kante and say Makelele is Makelele's game was based on positioning, Kantes is work rate, but other than that they are very similar, Kante does not spend very much time in the opposition half at all, he is the most defensive midfielder in the Premier League.

I don't remember any time seeing him hit a cross or take a shot, he just shuttles the ball forwards.

I mean if you class taking the ball and passing it forward as offensive, then you could call a goalkeeper offensive.

Because you don't remember it happening doesn't mean it didn't happen, I provided stats that show how many shots on goal Kante had in the previous 2 seasons which clearly means he got into offensive positions quite a few times and is far from being the most defensive midfielder in the Premier league.

[thebigbangtheo]

Exactly, at the end of the day if you can get a good pairing that works roles are immaterial.

As for Kante not attacking, we are obviously talking abiut different Kantes, the Kante I am talking about bursts through midfield and ends up in advanced positions quite a lot for a holding midfielder. He certainly is no Makelele or Gilberto/Petit, staying in his own half all game.

Kante does not attack at all, i suppose he shuttles the ball forward after making record breaking tackle numbers if you count forward passes as attacking, but he never gets near the oppositions box and does all of his work in his own half, if anything his best comparison is Makelele.

He is certainly not a box to box midfielder, hes a DM with a stupidly high work rate.

Kante heat map's

Your first heat map shows exactly what Kante is. He works from the edge of his box to the edge of the opponent's box. Countless times I have seen him burst forward and play the ball wide then he hangs back to the edge of the box.

Clearly he is far more offensive than a straight DM/holding midfielder. Last season he had 25 shots in the Prem, the season before he had 27. No way he would have had that many shots on goal if he barely made it past the halfway line in games.

It depends what you call 'offensive', i mean never entering the oppositions box is not offensive imo, the main difference between Kante and say Makelele is Makelele's game was based on positioning, Kantes is work rate, but other than that they are very similar, Kante does not spend very much time in the opposition half at all, he is the most defensive midfielder in the Premier League.

I don't remember any time seeing him hit a cross or take a shot, he just shuttles the ball forwards.

I mean if you class taking the ball and passing it forward as offensive, then you could call a goalkeeper offensive.

If a keeper kicks the ball long and it travels to end up in the net, is that not both an offensive action and a goal?

When Bould and Adams combined for that iconic goal, did you redefine them as offensive players?

Is Pep Guardiola wrong for recognising the advantages to be gained from having a keeper that can a) play comfortably with the ball at his feet and initiate attacks and build up play as opposed to just clearing his lines with a hoof and turning possession of the ball into a 50/50 at best, and b) give his team 11 good outfield players on the pitch playing against 10 for the vast majority of games?

Whilst scoring and attempting to score are indeed the result of offensive actions, it is not to the exclusivity of those players in the offensive roles and positions.

Thats getting a bit silly, its kinda saying every player in the world is a offensive player if we are taking it that far

All i was trying to say was Kante is a defensive player, and not a box to box type like Gerrard/Lampard.

You're right, brother gooner. Given that all (especially hothead's) the counter opinions to your remarks are completely valid, it is therefore silly to try and reason with someone who is being unreasonable. You are however entitled to your opinion and ultimately we worship at the same temple so I will respect that.

[Santi]

Well he's signing anyway we know that for sure, no way we let the window shut without selling him if he wasn't gonna.


Inb4 he can go abroad, then we'd be short in midfield.

[ag6789]

He should only be deployed as a replacement for either Ozil or Mikhi. Should not be played as CM or DM. I think it'll be difficult for him to break in the first squad if both Ozil and Mikhi have an outstanding season.

[Arsene Nose]

Why would Ramsey sign a new deal at this point? He can just run down his contract and walk like Sanchez for a massive sign on fee.

[Goonerz]

If Ramsey is asking for over the top wages then let him go.
Our underachieving and underwhelming players keep being rewarded with massive contracts that the don’t deserve.

No more..

[PairyGrows]

Ramsey can take his wage demands and go to clubs like United, City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs. Better yet, he should talk to Real, Barca, Juventus, Bayern, PSG and Atletico.

We'll see just how high the demand for his services. While we can't know it for sure, I doubt Ramsey will be pleasantly surprised.

[DiamondGooner]

If Ramsey is asking for over the top wages then let him go.
Our underachieving and underwhelming players keep being rewarded with massive contracts that the don’t deserve.

No more..

I agree.

There are players not attached to our apron strings who are under paid and are as good as what we have but with a better attitude.

Look at Lich, we got him for FREE and he's as good if not better than any Fullback we have at the club.

For the wages etc Ramsey is demanding we could replace him relatively easily.

Tbh its more the attitude I'm concerned with, yes get paid, that's understandable but if you try and hold us to ransom which is what he's doing trying to run down his contract then fk him off immediately.

We really need to stop acting like these players are irreplaceable when that's far from teh truth, we're not doing ourselves any favors.

[Marsbar100]

I just hope he plays well and warrants keeping, at his best he is def worth keeping but he needs to be consistent

[StLGooner]

Is this supposed "wage squeeze" that we're in right now until we get sponsorship money next summer keeping the deal from happening?

[Pudpop]

Is this supposed "wage squeeze" that we're in right now until we get sponsorship money next summer keeping the deal from happening?

Probably not. It would be an easy work around with some imaginative accounting