Vieira says Gunners lack his winning mentality

[elkanofan]

everybody sees it but wenger doesn't or he doesn't want to see it.

Wenger sees it but what the f**k can he do when his best players just feel sorry for themselves and settle for second best and a big money move elsewhere!

[Popey]

you should ask wenger this question. do you really think you can keep key players like rvp and cesc without winning a trophie for 6 years?

If they want to leave because they haven't won, I say let them go then. I want players that are fully committed to the cause through thick and thin, not mercenaries.

I'm not saying I think RVP and Cesc are mercenaries, but IF they are I don't care if they leave.

I hate wishy washy grass is greener types. They need to take a look at themselves and ask why they haven't won, what more could they do... not look for a way out of the situation.

but c'mon! they want to win a trohie one day. and if we continue to play like that we will never win something.

If they want to win a trophy and think the only way they can is by leaving, then they can f**k off now imho. They're quitters and don't have the passion and heart that it takes to win, and will be passengers at another club, not the leaders. And that's our biggest problem right now, we don't have the leaders required.

so henry was also a quitter with no passion and heart?

[Leody]

you should ask wenger this question. do you really think you can keep key players like rvp and cesc without winning a trophie for 6 years?

If they want to leave because they haven't won, I say let them go then. I want players that are fully committed to the cause through thick and thin, not mercenaries.

I'm not saying I think RVP and Cesc are mercenaries, but IF they are I don't care if they leave.

I hate wishy washy grass is greener types. They need to take a look at themselves and ask why they haven't won, what more could they do... not look for a way out of the situation.

but c'mon! they want to win a trohie one day. and if we continue to play like that we will never win something.

If they want to win a trophy and think the only way they can is by leaving, then they can f**k off now imho. They're quitters and don't have the passion and heart that it takes to win, and will be passengers at another club, not the leaders. And that's our biggest problem right now, we don't have the leaders required.

so henry was also a quitter with no passion and heart?

Seriously? He already won things, he had already proven himself, he was at the end of his prime and Wenger was clearly starting a rebuilding project. Completely different situation then our current crop of players. WAY different.

[gzagee]

To be honest I don't mind players leaving after serving 5+ years so long as they don't angle for a move to one of our rivals.
Shouls Cesc or RvP wish to move on after the years of service they've both put in then fine, I say. I can't blame them if they believe they've achieved as much as they can with Arsenal.
In this day and age where players are always looking for the next big deal after they've just broken into the team (I refer to the likes of Rooney here...) it makes for a nice change to see a couple of hugely talented foreign players who've stuck around during our 'barren' years.

[Popey]

To be honest I don't mind players leaving after serving 5+ years so long as they don't angle for a move to one of our rivals.
Shouls Cesc or RvP wish to move on after the years of service they've both put in then fine, I say. I can't blame them if they believe they've achieved as much as they can with Arsenal.
In this day and age where players are always looking for the next big deal after they've just broken into the team (I refer to the likes of Rooney here...) it makes for a nice change to see a couple of hugely talented foreign players who've stuck around during our 'barren' years.

exactly!

[Leody]

I can't blame them if they believe they've achieved as much as they can with Arsenal.

To me, and this is purely my opinion... that is the attitude of a quitter.

When you believe you've done everything you can and there is no more room for improvement you may as well retire. A true legend never believes they can't improve, they can't do more or they can't win.

In the end though, we agree, if they've reached the point where they feel that way I have no problem with them leaving.

[elkanofan]

I can't blame them if they believe they've achieved as much as they can with Arsenal.

To me, and this is purely my opinion... that is the attitude of a quitter.

When you believe you've done everything you can and there is no more room for improvement you may as well retire. A true legend never believes they can't improve, they can't do more or they can't win.

In the end though, we agree, if they've reached the point where they feel that way I have no problem with them leaving.

Emphasize my point! Those two just ain't good enough! We are Arsenal, we are a huge club! 3rd most successful in england! We don't quit and settle for second best we fight until the end!

[gzagee]

I can't blame them if they believe they've achieved as much as they can with Arsenal.

To me, and this is purely my opinion... that is the attitude of a quitter.

When you believe you've done everything you can and there is no more room for improvement you may as well retire. A true legend never believes they can't improve, they can't do more or they can't win.

In the end though, we agree, if they've reached the point where they feel that way I have no problem with them leaving.

If you feel they are quitters then i think you're getting way too emotional about the players.
As you've said Arsenal [in other posts] should be run as a business and that being the case these players are employees (like you and me in the real world) are entitled to move on as they see fit (in a sense).
Why do we cry foul when a player may want to leave after x-amount of years service but mearly shrug our shoulders if they are forced out of the club?
If we are now run as a business then I wouldn't get too attached to any one player as football players in general have long lost their sentimentality.
The last of those were Tony Adams' class.
So whether it's Adebayor hankering for a move after one great season or Ray Parlour being farmed to pasture in Middlesbro, it boils down to the same thing: business.
That's why i don't get myself attached to any one player because who's to say Jack Wilshere won't do the unthinkable and leave us some time in the future.
I support the club and admire the players.
Therefore i know that whilst a player may come and go my club will always remain.

[Popey]

Arsenal must take responsibility for lack of silverware, says honest Arshavin

Andrey Arshavin believes Arsenal only have themselves to blame for heading towards a sixth-straight trophyless season.

The Russia forward has completed 100 matches since signing for £15million from Zenit St Petersburg in Ferbruary 2009, and admits he expected to have won honours by now.

Manchester United extended their lead at the top of the Barclays Premier League to seven points with five games to play after a goalless draw against Newcastle on Tuesday night.

Arsenal have six games left but face a tough trip to north London rivals Tottenham on Wednesday night and Arshavin admits the Gunners are unlikely to end their wait for a trophy.

'We are fighting, but we have few chances,' he told Russian newspaper Sport-Express. 'To catch up with Manchester United is of course very difficult. The main task for us now is to achieve maximum points from our remaining matches.'

Asked what mark he would give to the team's displays this season, the 29-year-old admitted Arsenal had suffered for their inconsistency, which includes four draws in their last five league games.

'It's difficult to give an unequivocal grade for the whole season,' he said. 'We had both some impressive and some terrible matches.

'Myself, I have played just satisfactory. To be honest my plan was to finally win something with the team, personal achievements are secondary.

'We had to win the League Cup (against Birmingham in February). I consider that we gave it to our opponents with our own hands.

'Unimpressive seasons, unfortunately, do happen. I think it will get better.'

Sportsmail understands that Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger is tempted to off-load Arshavin in the summer, with Zenit keen to take him back.

Wenger criticised referee Andre Marriner after Liverpool snatched a 1-1 draw at the Emirates on Sunday by scoring a disputed penalty 11 minutes into second-half stoppage time.

Marriner's fourth official had indicated there would a minimum of eight extra minutes, but Arshavin said his team-mates should look closer to home before blaming others.

'Only the referee can decide when to blow the final whistle,' he said. '(Injured Liverpool defender Jamie) Carragher was treated for a very long time.

'In any case, the blame is with ourselves. No matter how much time the referee added, it was left to us to competently see out the game.

'We all want to prove our critics wrong but, unfortunately, we haven't been able to yet.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... z1K4jlT2V9

[Leody]

I can't blame them if they believe they've achieved as much as they can with Arsenal.

To me, and this is purely my opinion... that is the attitude of a quitter.

When you believe you've done everything you can and there is no more room for improvement you may as well retire. A true legend never believes they can't improve, they can't do more or they can't win.

In the end though, we agree, if they've reached the point where they feel that way I have no problem with them leaving.

If you feel they are quitters then i think you're getting way too emotional about the players.
As you've said Arsenal [in other posts] should be run as a business and that being the case these players are employees (like you and me in the real world) are entitled to move on as they see fit (in a sense).
Why do we cry foul when a player may want to leave after x-amount of years service but mearly shrug our shoulders if they are forced out of the club?
If we are now run as a business then I wouldn't get too attached to any one player as football players in general have long lost their sentimentality.
The last of those were Tony Adams' class.
So whether it's Adebayor hankering for a move after one great season or Ray Parlour being farmed to pasture in Middlesbro, it boils down to the same thing: business.
That's why i don't get myself attached to any one player because who's to say Jack Wilshere won't do the unthinkable and leave us some time in the future.
I support the club and admire the players.
Therefore i know that whilst a player may come and go my club will always remain.

I've said it run as a business, not that I think it should or shouldn't be. Doesn't really matter in the end, because as long ad there is money involved it will be run as a business.

(and there are many ways to run a business)

And emotion really has little to do with my feeling the way I do about the players, what I said is just a pure fact of life. If you ever think you've reached your best in anything or done all you can, you may as well die, because clearly you're God. There are different types of quitter, ones that quit before they start, at the first sign of struggle, after a few failures, after many... and then there is the select few that will never give up no matter what. Those are the people we sing about, those are the people that have statues erected for them and those are the people I want at my club. The rest I will thank for their effort and say good day to when they leave.

[gzagee]

I can't blame them if they believe they've achieved as much as they can with Arsenal.

To me, and this is purely my opinion... that is the attitude of a quitter.

When you believe you've done everything you can and there is no more room for improvement you may as well retire. A true legend never believes they can't improve, they can't do more or they can't win.

In the end though, we agree, if they've reached the point where they feel that way I have no problem with them leaving.

If you feel they are quitters then i think you're getting way too emotional about the players.
As you've said Arsenal [in other posts] should be run as a business and that being the case these players are employees (like you and me in the real world) are entitled to move on as they see fit (in a sense).
Why do we cry foul when a player may want to leave after x-amount of years service but mearly shrug our shoulders if they are forced out of the club?
If we are now run as a business then I wouldn't get too attached to any one player as football players in general have long lost their sentimentality.
The last of those were Tony Adams' class.
So whether it's Adebayor hankering for a move after one great season or Ray Parlour being farmed to pasture in Middlesbro, it boils down to the same thing: business.
That's why i don't get myself attached to any one player because who's to say Jack Wilshere won't do the unthinkable and leave us some time in the future.
I support the club and admire the players.
Therefore i know that whilst a player may come and go my club will always remain.

I've said it run as a business, not that I think it should or shouldn't be. Doesn't really matter in the end, because as long ad there is money involved it will be run as a business.

(and there are many ways to run a business)

And emotion really has little to do with my feeling the way I do about the players, what I said is just a pure fact of life. If you ever think you've reached your best in anything or done all you can, you may as well die, because clearly you're God. There are different types of quitter, ones that quit before they start, at the first sign of struggle, after a few failures, after many... and then there is the select few that will never give up no matter what. Those are the people we sing about, those are the people that have statues erected for them and those are the people I want at my club. The rest I will thank for their effort and say good day to when they leave.

Okay cool.

But I ask you: should a man not be allowed to move on when he feels he needs a new challenge, in much the same way the club move a player on after they feel he can offer no more?

[Leody]

Yeah he can leave, but in my mind he will be classed a quitter if he thinks he has a better chance elsewhere. To me it is clear he is just try to take the easy road and doesn't share in my passion for the club. These guys aren't looking for a new challenge, they've never completed the first challenge.

No sweat off my back.

[gzagee]

Leody mate, in my opinion you talk in idyllic black-n-white tones when life just isn't like that.
If i take your stance then I:
don't want foreign ownership becuase that's selling out
don't want any foreign players because they're harming English talent
don't want any player from further than 90mile radius as there's less chance they'll want to jump ship and more likely to be born & bred gooners

All this would more likely reduce the chances of breeding quitters.

[Leody]

Leody mate, in my opinion you talk in idyllic black-n-white tones when life just isn't like that.
If i take your stance then I:
don't want foreign ownership becuase that's selling out
don't want any foreign players because they're harming English talent
don't want any player from further than 90mile radius as there's less chance they'll want to jump ship and more likely to be born & bred gooners

All this would more likely reduce the chances of breeding quitters.

I realize I am, and I accept that the vast majority of player wouldn't fit my mold. But that's ok if they have a lot of pride in their work and do it for themselves if not for the club. But it's the nature of sports these days with the huge paydays. In a utopian football world all you said would happen, but it can't in reality, unless you're content with being a league 2 side.

I've often said I wasn't a big fan of foreign players, because they don't have the passion for the club in most cases. To me their more mercenaries... They don't bleed Arsenal, they don't have, and often can't have, the level of passion for the club that local players would. The drama we're going through with Fabregas is a perfect example of it. If he were born and raised in London, we wouldn't be going through what we are. To him, Arsenal is little more than the name at the top of his paycheck.

If I actually lived in England and were able to follow whoever I wanted, I'm fairly certain I'd be a supporter of my small local club. But I don't have that connection to any soccer team here, because there isn't the league structure here. And I've fallen in love with Arsenal over the years of watching them.

To give you an idea, over here with the clubs I support in American sports they're mostly college teams. Because those players are part of the community, they're not paid, in many cases they're not good enough to earn a living paying a sport, but they play their hearts out because they love the game and they have loads of pride. They're not looking to move to another school, they grew up in the area in many cases, and by hell or high water they're going to give it their all to win where they are. You're never going to find that in professional sports...

We make due with what we have though I guess.

[gzagee]

Leody mate, in my opinion you talk in idyllic black-n-white tones when life just isn't like that.
If i take your stance then I:
don't want foreign ownership becuase that's selling out
don't want any foreign players because they're harming English talent
don't want any player from further than 90mile radius as there's less chance they'll want to jump ship and more likely to be born & bred gooners

All this would more likely reduce the chances of breeding quitters.

I realize I am, and I accept that the vast majority of player wouldn't fit my mold. But that's ok if they have a lot of pride in their work and do it for themselves if not for the club. But it's the nature of sports these days with the huge paydays. In a utopian football world all you said would happen, but it can't in reality, unless you're content with being a league 2 side.

I've often said I wasn't a big fan of foreign players, because they don't have the passion for the club in most cases. To me their more mercenaries... They don't bleed Arsenal, they don't have, and often can't have, the level of passion for the club that local players would. The drama we're going through with Fabregas is a perfect example of it. If he were born and raised in London, we wouldn't be going through what we are. To him, Arsenal is little more than the name at the top of his paycheck.

If I actually lived in England and were able to follow whoever I wanted, I'm fairly certain I'd be a supporter of my small local club. But I don't have that connection to any soccer team here, because there isn't the league structure here. And I've fallen in love with Arsenal over the years of watching them.

To give you an idea, over here with the clubs I support in American sports they're mostly college teams. Because those players are part of the community, they're not paid, in many cases they're not good enough to earn a living paying a sport, but they play their hearts out because they love the game and they have loads of pride. They're not looking to move to another school, they grew up in the area in many cases, and by hell or high water they're going to give it their all to win where they are. You're never going to find that in professional sports...

We make due with what we have though I guess.

I agree with you Leo.
I have an older brother who lived in Philly and schooled at Penn State. So by default his family are Nittany lions, and me too I guess.
I also support Dulwich Hamlet who are more or less my local non-league team and i always look out for Crystal Palace's results as they're not too far from me.