It was not an heroic failure so time to move on

[TRA Dial Square]

Fact: We were 1-1 and through to the next round before the red card.

Fact: They couldn't break our defense with 11 men on the pitch.

f**k your facts. Facts are about as useless as stats.

Why do you insist on ignoring those facts?

Difference between mine and yours is mine is based upon what happened over the course of the whole match Leody.
Yours is based upon conjecture and speculation.
We need to get over it. Hardly anyone apart from Wilshere and Almunia stood up to be counted. Although I felt sorry for the defence who were given little protection by those in front of them.

Bit confused Gza...

But how is it conjecture and speculation that they couldn't break our defence w/ 11 men on the pitch?

The fact they were only really able to do it, after the sending off proves it's a fact.

[ayN]

I thought I heard a rumor somewhere, that a *** buried a *** scarf somewhere under the Emirates when it was being built (apparently he was part of the construction crew). Not sure how true that is, or if that would even be considered a curse, but it can't be good if its true.

I read that somewhere as well. It was right when the construction started.

r***rd.

[elkanofan]

anyone know of any Arsenal players pissing off any witch doctors? Toure at the ACON? Maybe his drug bust has something to do with it?

It's Highbury TIBC.

We never won a trophy before we played at Highbury and we all know the trophy count since we lift.....

Bound to end soon anyway

[gzagee]

Fact: We were 1-1 and through to the next round before the red card.

Fact: They couldn't break our defense with 11 men on the pitch.

f**k your facts. Facts are about as useless as stats.

Why do you insist on ignoring those facts?

Difference between mine and yours is mine is based upon what happened over the course of the whole match Leody.
Yours is based upon conjecture and speculation.
We need to get over it. Hardly anyone apart from Wilshere and Almunia stood up to be counted. Although I felt sorry for the defence who were given little protection by those in front of them.

Bit confused Gza...

But how is it conjecture and speculation that they couldn't break our defence w/ 11 men on the pitch?

The fact they were only really able to do it, after the sending off proves it's a fact.

How can you be confused? They breached our defence in no small part to Cesc's moment of madness. And that goal was coming.
Adriano had a shot which hit the post. Almunia had already made a couple of stops before Messi scored.
We hardly left our own penalty box in the first half.

So yes, I say it was conjecture.

That should clear up the matter.

[JackMan86]

Was it just me or was it cringey to watch Cesc have that love in with half the Barcelona team in the tunnel?

What kind of message does that send to your team mates and fans? That could have had an impact on the mindset of the team.

I think Cesc really wishes he was somewhere else. Shame really

[Artillero]

I'm tired of this whole "blame it on Cesc" movement. Yes, he wasn't up to snuff, but he never is when coming back from injury. Sure, their goal had to come from one of our guys making a mistake, and it turned out it was him: that doesn't make him disloyal, and if it does, that must mean that Biscuits is dying to come play here.

The man worked his ass off to be able to start yesterday for you, you ungrateful tits.

[Leody]

Fact: We were 1-1 and through to the next round before the red card.

Fact: They couldn't break our defense with 11 men on the pitch.

f**k your facts. Facts are about as useless as stats.

Why do you insist on ignoring those facts?

Difference between mine and yours is mine is based upon what happened over the course of the whole match Leody.
Yours is based upon conjecture and speculation.
We need to get over it. Hardly anyone apart from Wilshere and Almunia stood up to be counted. Although I felt sorry for the defence who were given little protection by those in front of them.

Bit confused Gza...

But how is it conjecture and speculation that they couldn't break our defence w/ 11 men on the pitch?

The fact they were only really able to do it, after the sending off proves it's a fact.

How can you be confused? They breached our defence in no small part to Cesc's moment of madness. And that goal was coming.
Adriano had a shot which hit the post. Almunia had already made a couple of stops before Messi scored.
We hardly left our own penalty box in the first half.

So yes, I say it was conjecture.

That should clear up the matter.

So it's conjecture when I say they couldn't break us down... but it isn't when you say we never would have held on with 11 and they would have won anyhow...

Right...

It goes both ways mate.

[gzagee]

I'm tired of this whole "blame it on Cesc" movement. Yes, he wasn't up to snuff, but he never is when coming back from injury. Sure, their goal had to come from one of our guys making a mistake, and it turned out it was him: that doesn't make him disloyal, and if it does, that must mean that Biscuits is dying to come play here.

The man worked his ass off to be able to start yesterday for you, you ungrateful tits.

True.

However let's not smooth over the fact he was seen by millions cosying up to several Barca players in the tunnel.
This, the biggest game of his captaincy, the biggest game for the club in some time, and he's seen cavorting with the enemy.
Do you think Vieira would've done the same?
It's not even a question of his love for Barca, more the fact that it sent out the wrong message to his club colleagues.
As captain I expect stone cold focus and determination. Much like Adams, Vieira and Roy Keane.
Whenevr you saw Adams or Keane waiting to lead their team out you knew they were deadly serious. No joking or smiling with old acquaintances. All that can wait for postmatch drinks in the players lounge.

[gzagee]

Fact: We were 1-1 and through to the next round before the red card.

Fact: They couldn't break our defense with 11 men on the pitch.

f**k your facts. Facts are about as useless as stats.

Why do you insist on ignoring those facts?

Difference between mine and yours is mine is based upon what happened over the course of the whole match Leody.
Yours is based upon conjecture and speculation.
We need to get over it. Hardly anyone apart from Wilshere and Almunia stood up to be counted. Although I felt sorry for the defence who were given little protection by those in front of them.

Bit confused Gza...

But how is it conjecture and speculation that they couldn't break our defence w/ 11 men on the pitch?

The fact they were only really able to do it, after the sending off proves it's a fact.

How can you be confused? They breached our defence in no small part to Cesc's moment of madness. And that goal was coming.
Adriano had a shot which hit the post. Almunia had already made a couple of stops before Messi scored.
We hardly left our own penalty box in the first half.

So yes, I say it was conjecture.

That should clear up the matter.

So it's conjecture when I say they couldn't break us down... but it isn't when you say we never would have held on with 11 and they would have won anyhow...

Right...

It goes both ways mate.

It is conjecture because you are simply speculating upon an outcome without substance or evidence.
You were the one who said they couldn't break us down with 11 on the field, yet they had. And we were creaking.
The goal we got came courtesy of Barca.
We never had a shot on their goal, well we did but that was offside, lol.
The only thing we can really speculate on is IF Bendy had taken his chance could we have gone through with it coming so late in the game?
It's possible.
Nothing more.

There was no nobility and galantry to the way we played and if you and others are proud of the effort the team put in last night, then good for you's.
The ref was part of the problem but the team needs to admit they failed. Miserably.
That, indeed is a fact.

[Epic Fail]

Look, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the fact that they were better than us before the red card does not automatically mean they would have won had it not happened. The simple fact is that BOTH arguments are conjecture. We'll never know what would have happened had he stayed on the pitch. It didn't happen and to say definitively one way or another is frankly impossible.

[Forest]

Maybe wrong thread but Im suprised that people have a go at the way we play yet havent said what we should of tried and how we should of played.

How we was playing was working, the whole idea was to defend for 60/70mins and hope they tired enough, rather that than the 5-0 thumping real got.

[gzagee]

Tell me I'm wrong Epic, but if you read my posts I don't think i've been speculative in anything.
I've merely stated what actually happened, the performance of the team, and the fact we need to get over it.

I'm not here arguing whether the ref was right or wrong. I'm not debating what might've been. I'm simply stating what actually happened. I think...

[Artillero]

However let's not smooth over the fact he was seen by millions cosying up to several Barca players in the tunnel.
This, the biggest game of his captaincy, the biggest game for the club in some time, and he's seen cavorting with the enemy.
Do you think Vieira would've done the same?

Oh, yeah, sure. They walked all over us because Cesc had a bit of a laugh with some old mates before the game started. Sure. Had Moussaka seen Cesc ignoring the other team, he totally would have decided not to go crazy in that game. Absolutely. We don't need to improve our game for the big stages, no. What we need is a Captain who keeps to himself.

Oh, well. You've all found your scapegoat, have fun blaming it all on him.

[Leody]

Look, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the fact that they were better than us before the red card does not automatically mean they would have won had it not happened. The simple fact is that BOTH arguments are conjecture. We'll never know what would have happened had he stayed on the pitch. It didn't happen and to say definitively one way or another is frankly impossible.

Exactly.

And that was my point Gza

[gzagee]

However let's not smooth over the fact he was seen by millions cosying up to several Barca players in the tunnel.
This, the biggest game of his captaincy, the biggest game for the club in some time, and he's seen cavorting with the enemy.
Do you think Vieira would've done the same?

Oh, yeah, sure. They walked all over us because Cesc had a bit of a laugh with some old mates before the game started. Sure. Had Moussaka seen Cesc ignoring the other team, he totally would have decided not to go crazy in that game. Absolutely. We don't need to improve our game for the big stages, no. What we need is for a Captain who keeps to himself.

Oh, well. You've all found your scapegoat, have fun blaming it all on him.

I'm not singling him out as a scapegoat, plenty others didn't turn up. He succumbed to the most childish of mind games.
We'll never know what they said to him, whether they whispered some nonsense in his ear or spoke aloud so the Arsenal players could hear. But, and this is conjecture on my part, that might've put him slightly off his game.
And it wouldn't surprise me if Guardiola and Puyol sanctioned it.
Okay that's enough sepculation from me!!
All i'm saying is I think the captain should send out a message of intent to his teammates and opposition.

But you're right the whole team is to blame.