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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:23 pm
by DiamondGooner
A strikers training is very different to that of a wingers or even a Forward.

A striker is drilled to take accurate shots more, when to make runs in the box, headers etc etc.

A strikers job is to concentrate on "Inside the box" craft, a Forward or a Winger is not.

Sanchez is a Wide player, whether you play him as a Forward or as an out an out winger is down to the formation.

Usually a high level winger will cover both areas hence why they look WC compared to bog standard wingers, Ronaldo, Messi ect have too much talent to just hug the touchline.

Just because a Winger is good enough to effectively be / act / contribute like a 2nd striker doesn't mean they are in fact a striker.

Sanchez isn't even a CF (Bergkamp, Del Peirro role) he is def a Wide player, just because you cut in or can shoot a ball does not make you a striker.

Giroud, Lacazette are our only true box strikers, Welbeck is sort of half / half, ST come Forward, mainly because he's not good enough to be a striker so he gets used as a Forward because he's mobile.

Podolski is a Forward.

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:36 am
by theHotHead
GA you listed typical centre forwards. Shearer, Les Ferdinand, Mark Bright, Lee Chapman, all old school traditional centre forwards.

Bergkamp wasn't a centre forward neither was Zola, they played the number 10 role typically behind the number 9. Forwards are strikers, striker is just the modern name for a forward. Sanchez is a striker but in old language he is an inside forward. He is absolutely not a winger because his role is not primarily to provide and he does not hug the touchline.

A striker plays anywhere along the forward line whereas a winger's starting position is much deeper. Typically deployed in a 4-4-2 the winger starts deeper than the 2 forwards/strikers.

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:41 am
by Cripps
Internationals need to end for the sake of GW

The boredom on here during them knows no bounds

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:50 am
by Nuggets
Cripps wrote:Internationals need to end for the sake of GW

The boredom on here during them knows no bounds

:clap:

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:57 pm
by DiamondGooner
theHotHead wrote:GA you listed typical centre forwards. Shearer, Les Ferdinand, Mark Bright, Lee Chapman, all old school traditional centre forwards.

Bergkamp wasn't a centre forward neither was Zola, they played the number 10 role typically behind the number 9. Forwards are strikers, striker is just the modern name for a forward. Sanchez is a striker but in old language he is an inside forward. He is absolutely not a winger because his role is not primarily to provide and he does not hug the touchline.

A striker plays anywhere along the forward line whereas a winger's starting position is much deeper. Typically deployed in a 4-4-2 the winger starts deeper than the 2 forwards/strikers.


That's not right.

Tbf No10 is a shirt number, it does not define a role in a team, its just an indication, Wilshere is currently number 10 and he's played Deep Mid before.

Bergkamp played as a CF i.e a 2nd striker someone who played in the same position as a CAM like Ozil but instead of a Creative Attacking midfielder he was a 2nd striker, he was up front but behind the main striker.

Also a striker is not "anyone" who plays across the front line, that is a Forward, a striker is someone who is a box player, primarily responsible for scoring and being in the box.

E.g at Inter Milan Pandev and Eto played as Forwards, Milito was the striker.

In our system of 2-1 up front, because of the way we play those are positions behind the striker left and right would be considered Wing Forward positions.

Essentially that is what Sanchez is a Wing Forward, he's certainly not a box striker.

Note that all these positions are completely dependent on the formation and more importantly the role the manager makes you play, that's how you explain how players like Moses and Ox went from wide midfielders to Wing backs.

However if we're going to describe Sanchez's main position as per the type of player he is naturally ......... Wing Forward.

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:22 pm
by ronniec
My generation... Rummenigge, Voller, Klinsmann, Riedle, Bierhoff, Klose, were all "strikers".
They spent 99% of their time (attacking) in the box, scored 99% of their goals in the box.
The role was clear and precise.

Nowadays, more and more hybrid players and formations... especially the false 9.
Attacking players need to play multiple positions and require to have good techniques, movement and interchanging to make things complicated, and difficult to defend.

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:55 pm
by DiamondGooner
Very true.

The Del Piero / Bergkamp role of CF in the No10 position has all but gone the way of the Dodo seeing as two up front is rarely played these days.

The role itself came about from the days of 4-4-2 and managers started to realise they didn't need two classic box strikers just hanging up front when at least one of them could come a little deeper and help transition midfield to attack while still be up high enough to get in the box when needed.

So a lot of them became 4-4-1-1

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:49 pm
by ronniec
DiamondGooner wrote:Very true.

The Del Piero / Bergkamp role of CF in the No10 position has all but gone the way of the Dodo seeing as two up front is rarely played these days.

The role itself came about from the days of 4-4-2 and managers started to realise they didn't need two classic box strikers just hanging up front when at least one of them could come a little deeper and help transition midfield to attack while still be up high enough to get in the box when needed.

So a lot of them became 4-4-1-1


Very strange that so many teams were/are using 4-2-3-1 but less and less players have good speed and skills to execute a decent cross from wide area.
So many wide players like to cut in and shoot instead.

No more traditional wingers/wide players.

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:24 pm
by GoonerAlexandre
TWO GOALS FOR LACAZETTE AGAINST GERMANY!

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:45 pm
by theHotHead
Think you will find the term forward is older than a striker and the 2 are used interchangeably by people. I just Googled it and thats what I found, only one site suggested the 2 roles were different.

A forward is a striker and vice versa.

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:16 am
by ronniec
theHotHead wrote:Think you will find the term forward is older than a striker and the 2 are used interchangeably by people. I just Googled it and thats what I found, only one site suggested the 2 roles were different.

A forward is a striker and vice versa.


Striker = forward
Winger = forward
Is a Winger a striker??
Hell no.

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:25 am
by Sims
Trumpetemojitrumpetemojitrumpetemoji

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:33 am
by EliteKiller
ronniec wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Think you will find the term forward is older than a striker and the 2 are used interchangeably by people. I just Googled it and thats what I found, only one site suggested the 2 roles were different.

A forward is a striker and vice versa.


Striker = forward
Winger = forward
Is a Winger a striker??
Hell no.


Ronaldo says hello .... so does Bale, Robben, Hazard, DiMaria, Ribery .... even fecklin' Walnut calls himself a 'forward' ... since the turn of the century wingers have been replaced by goal scoring forwards .... get with the times ....

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:42 am
by DiamondGooner
theHotHead wrote:Think you will find the term forward is older than a striker and the 2 are used interchangeably by people. I just Googled it and thats what I found, only one site suggested the 2 roles were different.

A forward is a striker and vice versa.


That one site was correct then.

In the days of 4-4-2 for example Man Utd's Dwight Yorke and Cole, they were the only two forwards, so in the days of 4-4-2 the only forwards on the pitch were the strikers hence the term was interchangeable.

But you have to keep up with the times, formations have changed, players roles have changed.

Deep lying play maker was never a thing either, doesn't mean they don't exist now.

A forward player is just an indication of where on the pitch you play (Forward, Wide, Midfield, Centre or Left back), teams now have one striker and so the distinction is more important than ever.

Forward's can play anywhere along the forward line, strikers are specifically box players and goal scorers.

Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:42 am
by theHotHead
ronniec wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Think you will find the term forward is older than a striker and the 2 are used interchangeably by people. I just Googled it and thats what I found, only one site suggested the 2 roles were different.

A forward is a striker and vice versa.


Striker = forward
Winger = forward
Is a Winger a striker??
Hell no.

A winger is not a forward. For forwards the roles are centre forward, inside forward and wide/outside forwards - who were probably the olden day wingers but that term wasn't around. Wingers as we know them now tend to have a deeper starting point and so I don't think they can be called forwards.