Goonersworld

alexafc12 wrote:

jayramfootball wrote:

theHotHead wrote:

ag6789 wrote:It is not debuts that matter, it is the ability to to develop them( the debuts) into careers that matter.
Hopefully these kids , Nwaneri, Skelly will get to the next stage and have successful careers.

Its both, how can it be anything but both?!!

You can't get game time if you don't get a debut! Thats why players have left in droves - citing that very reason.

It is both and Arsenal under Arteta is THE club to be at for a youngster.
Not just chances to get that debut, but development opportunities to become a starter at a huge club.

Arteta is yet to develop a single player from academy to first team regular ?

Yeah, he has.
Saka, Saliba, ESR (was a regular starter until his injury issues).
Martinelli also developed from a teenager into a first team regular - though not from the academy.

Debuts or developing careers as a youngsters and getting a shot to be a first team regular, Arteta is the manager that tops them all amongst the big team managers.

I'd be happy if Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly made 15-20 appearances this season, more if we go far in the cups. No reason why one of them shouldn't be getting the 10-20 minutes in most games like Eddie was.

jayramfootball wrote:

alexafc12 wrote:

jayramfootball wrote:

theHotHead wrote:

ag6789 wrote:It is not debuts that matter, it is the ability to to develop them( the debuts) into careers that matter.
Hopefully these kids , Nwaneri, Skelly will get to the next stage and have successful careers.

Its both, how can it be anything but both?!!

You can't get game time if you don't get a debut! Thats why players have left in droves - citing that very reason.

It is both and Arsenal under Arteta is THE club to be at for a youngster.
Not just chances to get that debut, but development opportunities to become a starter at a huge club.

Arteta is yet to develop a single player from academy to first team regular ?

Yeah, he has.
Saka, Saliba, ESR (was a regular starter until his injury issues).
Martinelli also developed from a teenager into a first team regular - though not from the academy.

Debuts or developing careers as a youngsters and getting a shot to be a first team regular, Arteta is the manager that tops them all amongst the big team managers.

Saka and ESR were already first team members

Saliba was not an academy graduate

Arteta has given fewer debuts to academy graduates than Klopp , ETH or Pep since his arrival

So what , if less numbers have gotten debuts? Always quality before quantity. The academy players also need to prove themselves quickly,as PL/CL/ FA games aren't for fun. Nwaneri and Skelly are seeing minutes because they have quality. The ones like Patino fizzled out due to their inability to develop,not the manager's fault.

ag6789 wrote:So what , if less numbers have gotten debuts? Always quality before quantity. The academy players also need to prove themselves quickly,as PL/CL/ FA games aren't for fun. Nwaneri and Skelly are seeing minutes because they have quality. The ones like Patino fizzled out due to their inability to develop,not the manager's fault.

You're right it doesn't. Hence the original stat was players that had gone on to play 5+ games

However Jay posted the below quote which is wrong

"I think Arteta now leads in terms of the top teams for debuts given to academy players"

jayramfootball wrote:

alexafc12 wrote:

jayramfootball wrote:

theHotHead wrote:

ag6789 wrote:It is not debuts that matter, it is the ability to to develop them( the debuts) into careers that matter.
Hopefully these kids , Nwaneri, Skelly will get to the next stage and have successful careers.

Its both, how can it be anything but both?!!

You can't get game time if you don't get a debut! Thats why players have left in droves - citing that very reason.

It is both and Arsenal under Arteta is THE club to be at for a youngster.
Not just chances to get that debut, but development opportunities to become a starter at a huge club.

Arteta is yet to develop a single player from academy to first team regular ?

Yeah, he has.
Saka, Saliba, ESR (was a regular starter until his injury issues).
Martinelli also developed from a teenager into a first team regular - though not from the academy.

Debuts or developing careers as a youngsters and getting a shot to be a first team regular, Arteta is the manager that tops them all amongst the big team managers.

He literally only has ESR Jay, both Martinelli and Saka were first team regulars before Arteta joined

Saliba isnt an academy player.

ag6789 wrote:So what , if less numbers have gotten debuts? Always quality before quantity. The academy players also need to prove themselves quickly,as PL/CL/ FA games aren't for fun. Nwaneri and Skelly are seeing minutes because they have quality. The ones like Patino fizzled out due to their inability to develop,not the manager's fault.

Fine, lets use your argument.

So where is this quality then???

theHotHead wrote:

jayramfootball wrote:

alexafc12 wrote:

jayramfootball wrote:

theHotHead wrote:

ag6789 wrote:It is not debuts that matter, it is the ability to to develop them( the debuts) into careers that matter.
Hopefully these kids , Nwaneri, Skelly will get to the next stage and have successful careers.

Its both, how can it be anything but both?!!

You can't get game time if you don't get a debut! Thats why players have left in droves - citing that very reason.

It is both and Arsenal under Arteta is THE club to be at for a youngster.
Not just chances to get that debut, but development opportunities to become a starter at a huge club.

Arteta is yet to develop a single player from academy to first team regular ?

Yeah, he has.
Saka, Saliba, ESR (was a regular starter until his injury issues).
Martinelli also developed from a teenager into a first team regular - though not from the academy.

Debuts or developing careers as a youngsters and getting a shot to be a first team regular, Arteta is the manager that tops them all amongst the big team managers.

He literally only has ESR Jay, both Martinelli and Saka were first team regulars before Arteta joined

Saliba isnt an academy player.

Saka and Martinelli were not regulars. Neither had played much at all when Arteta took over.
How was Saliba not an academy player?
He joined at 18, went out on loan, came back and played in PL2 and then went on loan again.

Whichever way you look at it, debuts or the development of young players, Arteta is the manager that is doing the most of any of the big clubs managers.

In Martinelli's first season he made 26 apps across all comps, 9 in the league and he was either not in the squad or an unused sub for 8 in the league. So in the 17 league games Emery managed in 2019/20 Martinelli made appearances in more than half of them!! Is that not being a regular, considering he was 18 and its his first season?!!

He started 5 of the 6 Europa League matches under Emery. How is that not being a regular ??

As for Saka, He made 38 apps in 2019/20 in all comps. 8 league appearances under Emery and 9 he was an unused sub or not in the squad. He played 4 of the 6 Europa League matches under Emery, starting all 4. He was 17/18 so thats significant involvement with the first team, how can you say he was not a regular?

theHotHead wrote:In Martinelli's first season he made 26 apps across all comps, 9 in the league and he was either not in the squad or an unused sub for 8 in the league. So in the 17 league games Emery managed in 2019/20 Martinelli made appearances in more than half of them!! Is that not being a regular, considering he was 18 and its his first season?!!

He started 5 of the 6 Europa League matches under Emery. How is that not being a regular ??

As for Saka, He made 38 apps in 2019/20 in all comps. 8 league appearances under Emery and 9 he was an unused sub or not in the squad. He played 4 of the 6 Europa League matches under Emery, starting all 4. He was 17/18 so thats significant involvement with the first team, how can you say he was not a regular?

Half of Martinelli's first season was under Arteta.
He had zero starts in the PL under Emery and in the interim before Arteta joined he had 3 starts in the PL.
All his FA Cup appearances came under Arteta
He was being tried out in the EL in the easy group stage and in the League cup.

Saka in 18/19 played 7 minutes in the PL and 4 minutes in the FA Cup
In 19/20
In the PL he had started in 4 of the 18 games prior to Arteta's arrival.
He started 15 of the remaining 20 games in the PL under Arteta
All his FA Cup starts came under Arteta
He had 1 start in the League cup under Emery.
He started 3 of 5 games in the EL group stages

Neither player was an Arsenal starter on a regular basis until Arteta put them in - and neither had played many minutes for the first team

Whether they got starts or not is irrelevant Jay. The argument is giving academy players debuts but then continued game time. Whether the game time is from starts or as a sub it makes no difference.

No academy graduate in their first year can expect to be getting lots of starts, but involvement as a sub is great for their development. They can get starts in the lesser comps, which Saka and Martinelli did in the Europa League

If people think Saliba is an product of our academy there is a screw loose

alexafc12 wrote:

ag6789 wrote:So what , if less numbers have gotten debuts? Always quality before quantity. The academy players also need to prove themselves quickly,as PL/CL/ FA games aren't for fun. Nwaneri and Skelly are seeing minutes because they have quality. The ones like Patino fizzled out due to their inability to develop,not the manager's fault.

You're right it doesn't. Hence the original stat was players that had gone on to play 5+ games

However Jay posted the below quote which is wrong

"I think Arteta now leads in terms of the top teams for debuts given to academy players"

Point nullified

Humiliating season for Jay so far

The definition of a walking community note

alexafc12 wrote:If people think Saliba is an product of our academy there is a screw loose

alexafc12 wrote:

alexafc12 wrote:

ag6789 wrote:So what , if less numbers have gotten debuts? Always quality before quantity. The academy players also need to prove themselves quickly,as PL/CL/ FA games aren't for fun. Nwaneri and Skelly are seeing minutes because they have quality. The ones like Patino fizzled out due to their inability to develop,not the manager's fault.

You're right it doesn't. Hence the original stat was players that had gone on to play 5+ games

However Jay posted the below quote which is wrong

"I think Arteta now leads in terms of the top teams for debuts given to academy players"

Point nullified

Humiliating season for Jay so far

The definition of a walking community note

Arteta has now given 12 debuts to academy players, and that is not even including his development for Saliba Martinelli and Saka into regular starters and world stars.
I love the negative narratives being swept aside - from all angles.

Love the strength and depth of our squad too that these youngsters are bolstering- who'd have thought we'd have enough players to field a team, eh?