2021

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Re: 2021

Postby Arsenal Tone » Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:45 pm

Reiss wrote:It was never going to be an easy task to rebuild this club. We have chronic, deep rooted issues that go back over a decade.

We needed a ruthless manager willing to make tough decisions. Someone willing to come in and upset the status quo, gutting the squad in the process.

He's done exactly that.

He got rid of Ozil, shipped out dead wood like Mustafi and Sokratis, finally got rid of Bellerin after it was obvious that his time was done here, dropped our captain plus much more. These are decisions that are in the best interests of Arsenal football club.

We now have a young core that bleed Arsenal through and through. I am so connected with the club again and it's not something I've felt since the invincibles days.

Is there a lot more work to be done? Absolutely. Arteta may or may not be the man to take us to the top, but he has built a good foundation and for the first time in years I am hopeful.


:clap:
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
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???/Havertz
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Re: 2021

Postby theHotHead » Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:47 pm

We never needed a big rebuild, like I stated umpteen times before, our only problem was our lack of defensive capability and that was due to Wenger not focusing on defending at all, offensively we were fine.

Had Emery and then Arteta not been arse clowns we could easily have improved our defensiveness which would automatically have made us top 4 competitive.
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Re: 2021

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:53 pm

theHotHead wrote:We never needed a big rebuild,


Of course we did.
It's about more than the talent of the players - it is also about culture and attitude and several players had to be moved on to be replaced by footballers with the right character to go along with the talent.
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Re: 2021

Postby Arsenal Tone » Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:08 pm

theHotHead wrote:We never needed a big rebuild, like I stated umpteen times before, our only problem was our lack of defensive capability and that was due to Wenger not focusing on defending at all, offensively we were fine.

Had Emery and then Arteta not been arse clowns we could easily have improved our defensiveness which would automatically have made us top 4 competitive.
The Wenger holiday camp mentality was our biggest problem. Emery tried to sort it and the players downed tools. They tried to do the same to Arteta and he made an example of him. Then last January he let a lot of them go. That is my take of it.
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
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Re: 2021

Postby theHotHead » Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:16 pm

Arsenal Tone wrote:
theHotHead wrote:We never needed a big rebuild, like I stated umpteen times before, our only problem was our lack of defensive capability and that was due to Wenger not focusing on defending at all, offensively we were fine.

Had Emery and then Arteta not been arse clowns we could easily have improved our defensiveness which would automatically have made us top 4 competitive.
The Wenger holiday camp mentality was our biggest problem. Emery tried to sort it and the players downed tools. They tried to do the same to Arteta and he made an example of him. Then last January he let a lot of them go. That is my take of it.

No he didn't ! Emery came in and alienated Ozil while having no better creative options in the squad. He got rid of Ozil then begged for him to come back and save his arse.

Who are these "Wenger Holiday campers"?? When Emery came he released Wilshere, Cazorla, Perez and some fringe players, Only Wilshere of the 3 I named could be classed as a Wenger mentality player. the next season he let Ramsey, Mkhi, Iwobi, Ospina and Welbeck go, players not good enough, but not what I would call holiday campers.

There was no such thing as a holiday camp mentality, we had some poor players but we also had plenty of decent players. Mkhi left us and went on to contribute 14 goals in 22 games for Roma. What Emery did transfer wise was spot on when he joined, he identified our key weaknesses and addressed them - Goalkeeper, Centre Back, Defensive midfielder, box to box CM. He then proceeded to do worse than Wenger with a better team.

Here I can credit Arteta for getting rid of lots of deadwood, but even he was a massive doughnut in 2020/21 and kept loads of players that should've been sold/released.

I need to know who these Wenger Holiday Campers are that Emery had to sort out.
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Re: 2021

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:54 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Arsenal Tone wrote:
theHotHead wrote:We never needed a big rebuild, like I stated umpteen times before, our only problem was our lack of defensive capability and that was due to Wenger not focusing on defending at all, offensively we were fine.

Had Emery and then Arteta not been arse clowns we could easily have improved our defensiveness which would automatically have made us top 4 competitive.
The Wenger holiday camp mentality was our biggest problem. Emery tried to sort it and the players downed tools. They tried to do the same to Arteta and he made an example of him. Then last January he let a lot of them go. That is my take of it.

No he didn't ! Emery came in and alienated Ozil while having no better creative options in the squad. He got rid of Ozil then begged for him to come back and save his arse.

Who are these "Wenger Holiday campers"?? When Emery came he released Wilshere, Cazorla, Perez and some fringe players, Only Wilshere of the 3 I named could be classed as a Wenger mentality player. the next season he let Ramsey, Mkhi, Iwobi, Ospina and Welbeck go, players not good enough, but not what I would call holiday campers.

There was no such thing as a holiday camp mentality, we had some poor players but we also had plenty of decent players. Mkhi left us and went on to contribute 14 goals in 22 games for Roma. What Emery did transfer wise was spot on when he joined, he identified our key weaknesses and addressed them - Goalkeeper, Centre Back, Defensive midfielder, box to box CM. He then proceeded to do worse than Wenger with a better team.

Here I can credit Arteta for getting rid of lots of deadwood, but even he was a massive doughnut in 2020/21 and kept loads of players that should've been sold/released.

I need to know who these Wenger Holiday Campers are that Emery had to sort out.


Wenger's entire squad for years had a crap mentality. Basic errors, lack of effort and consistency. We spoke many times about how we collapsed when things were going well and only put the effort in when things went to shit. It was a constant cycle and it has been happening for years.
It was nearly ALL his players that suffered from it and it came from Wenger.
The culture at the club was rotten to the core and that is why it needed a rebuild.

Here is the squad of players from 17/18 season - those that had more than 5 starts - that you are saying did not need a rebuild? Are you serious??
In red, the ones already gone
In Amber - the ones all but gone and have shown they don't have the right mentality at all.
In green - the ones that actually are contributing but also are more or less on the way out.
Left in black the only player that actually has a future with us - and even that is short term.

Tell me which of these players did not/do not need replacing?????
The required overhaul was huge because the squad was getting old and stagnant and the attitude of many of those players was rotten.

Granit Xhaka
Héctor Bellerín
Petr Čech
Alexandre Lacazette
Nacho Monreal
Shkodran Mustafi
Sead Kolašinac
Laurent Koscielny
Mesut Özil
Alex Iwobi
Aaron Ramsey

Alexis Sánchez (gone by the end of the season)
Danny Welbeck
Jack Wilshere

Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
Mohamed Elneny
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
Calum Chambers
Rob Holding
Ainsley Maitland-Niles

I actually feel sorry for Emery because of the job he was asked to do. That squad he inherited was simply not good enough, getting older and in free fall. Wenger had let it slip badly and to an extent, knowing he was near the end of his reign, I can understand the lack of motivation there to rebuild again. Emery needed to totally rip it up and start again, but as the first manager post Wenger he just didn't have the balls to do it.

Arteta has. He - and Edu - have done an absolutely phenomenal job of rebuilding our squad in a relatively short space of time.
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Re: 2021

Postby starmandb » Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:58 pm

Good win at relegation zone Leicester twice
But everyone is winning there so no credit in that
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Re: 2021

Postby Alexis » Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:05 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Arsenal Tone wrote:
theHotHead wrote:We never needed a big rebuild, like I stated umpteen times before, our only problem was our lack of defensive capability and that was due to Wenger not focusing on defending at all, offensively we were fine.

Had Emery and then Arteta not been arse clowns we could easily have improved our defensiveness which would automatically have made us top 4 competitive.
The Wenger holiday camp mentality was our biggest problem. Emery tried to sort it and the players downed tools. They tried to do the same to Arteta and he made an example of him. Then last January he let a lot of them go. That is my take of it.

No he didn't ! Emery came in and alienated Ozil while having no better creative options in the squad. He got rid of Ozil then begged for him to come back and save his arse.

Who are these "Wenger Holiday campers"?? When Emery came he released Wilshere, Cazorla, Perez and some fringe players, Only Wilshere of the 3 I named could be classed as a Wenger mentality player. the next season he let Ramsey, Mkhi, Iwobi, Ospina and Welbeck go, players not good enough, but not what I would call holiday campers.

There was no such thing as a holiday camp mentality, we had some poor players but we also had plenty of decent players. Mkhi left us and went on to contribute 14 goals in 22 games for Roma. What Emery did transfer wise was spot on when he joined, he identified our key weaknesses and addressed them - Goalkeeper, Centre Back, Defensive midfielder, box to box CM. He then proceeded to do worse than Wenger with a better team.

Here I can credit Arteta for getting rid of lots of deadwood, but even he was a massive doughnut in 2020/21 and kept loads of players that should've been sold/released.

I need to know who these Wenger Holiday Campers are that Emery had to sort out.


Wenger's entire squad for years had a crap mentality. Basic errors, lack of effort and consistency. We spoke many times about how we collapsed when things were going well and only put the effort in when things went to shit. It was a constant cycle and it has been happening for years.
It was nearly ALL his players that suffered from it and it came from Wenger.
The culture at the club was rotten to the core and that is why it needed a rebuild.

Here is the squad of players from 17/18 season - those that had more than 5 starts - that you are saying did not need a rebuild? Are you serious??
In red, the ones already gone
In Amber - the ones all but gone and have shown they don't have the right mentality at all.
In green - the ones that actually are contributing but also are more or less on the way out.
Left in black the only player that actually has a future with us - and even that is short term.

Tell me which of these players did not/do not need replacing?????
The required overhaul was huge because the squad was getting old and stagnant and the attitude of many of those players was rotten.

Granit Xhaka
Héctor Bellerín
Petr Čech
Alexandre Lacazette
Nacho Monreal
Shkodran Mustafi
Sead Kolašinac
Laurent Koscielny
Mesut Özil
Alex Iwobi
Aaron Ramsey

Alexis Sánchez (gone by the end of the season)
Danny Welbeck
Jack Wilshere

Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
Mohamed Elneny
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
Calum Chambers
Rob Holding
Ainsley Maitland-Niles

I actually feel sorry for Emery because of the job he was asked to do. That squad he inherited was simply not good enough, getting older and in free fall. Wenger had let it slip badly and to an extent, knowing he was near the end of his reign, I can understand the lack of motivation there to rebuild again. Emery needed to totally rip it up and start again, but as the first manager post Wenger he just didn't have the balls to do it.

Arteta has. He - and Edu - have done an absolutely phenomenal job of rebuilding our squad in a relatively short space of time.


its worth pointing out that arteta has the full backing of the kroenkes in all decisions he's taken, something that emery lacked as baldy gazidis fuked off within weeks of hiring emery and then his next backer raul came out as a leeching parasite and run away before he got in real big trouble.

Also arteta has gotten all the players he has asked - tomiyasu, ramsdale and white were all arteta suggestions and pushed edu into forgetting anyone else and going after these 3 no matter what.

emery wanted partey and zaha and was not backed, instead we got conned into cup specialist pepe
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Re: 2021

Postby theHotHead » Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:46 am

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Arsenal Tone wrote:
theHotHead wrote:We never needed a big rebuild, like I stated umpteen times before, our only problem was our lack of defensive capability and that was due to Wenger not focusing on defending at all, offensively we were fine.

Had Emery and then Arteta not been arse clowns we could easily have improved our defensiveness which would automatically have made us top 4 competitive.
The Wenger holiday camp mentality was our biggest problem. Emery tried to sort it and the players downed tools. They tried to do the same to Arteta and he made an example of him. Then last January he let a lot of them go. That is my take of it.

No he didn't ! Emery came in and alienated Ozil while having no better creative options in the squad. He got rid of Ozil then begged for him to come back and save his arse.

Who are these "Wenger Holiday campers"?? When Emery came he released Wilshere, Cazorla, Perez and some fringe players, Only Wilshere of the 3 I named could be classed as a Wenger mentality player. the next season he let Ramsey, Mkhi, Iwobi, Ospina and Welbeck go, players not good enough, but not what I would call holiday campers.

There was no such thing as a holiday camp mentality, we had some poor players but we also had plenty of decent players. Mkhi left us and went on to contribute 14 goals in 22 games for Roma. What Emery did transfer wise was spot on when he joined, he identified our key weaknesses and addressed them - Goalkeeper, Centre Back, Defensive midfielder, box to box CM. He then proceeded to do worse than Wenger with a better team.

Here I can credit Arteta for getting rid of lots of deadwood, but even he was a massive doughnut in 2020/21 and kept loads of players that should've been sold/released.

I need to know who these Wenger Holiday Campers are that Emery had to sort out.


Wenger's entire squad for years had a crap mentality. Basic errors, lack of effort and consistency. We spoke many times about how we collapsed when things were going well and only put the effort in when things went to shit. It was a constant cycle and it has been happening for years.
It was nearly ALL his players that suffered from it and it came from Wenger.
The culture at the club was rotten to the core and that is why it needed a rebuild.

Here is the squad of players from 17/18 season - those that had more than 5 starts - that you are saying did not need a rebuild? Are you serious??
In red, the ones already gone
In Amber - the ones all but gone and have shown they don't have the right mentality at all.
In green - the ones that actually are contributing but also are more or less on the way out.
Left in black the only player that actually has a future with us - and even that is short term.

Tell me which of these players did not/do not need replacing?????
The required overhaul was huge because the squad was getting old and stagnant and the attitude of many of those players was rotten.

Granit Xhaka
Héctor Bellerín
Petr Čech
Alexandre Lacazette
Nacho Monreal
Shkodran Mustafi
Sead Kolašinac
Laurent Koscielny
Mesut Özil
Alex Iwobi
Aaron Ramsey

Alexis Sánchez (gone by the end of the season)
Danny Welbeck
Jack Wilshere

Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
Mohamed Elneny
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
Calum Chambers
Rob Holding
Ainsley Maitland-Niles

I actually feel sorry for Emery because of the job he was asked to do. That squad he inherited was simply not good enough, getting older and in free fall. Wenger had let it slip badly and to an extent, knowing he was near the end of his reign, I can understand the lack of motivation there to rebuild again. Emery needed to totally rip it up and start again, but as the first manager post Wenger he just didn't have the balls to do it.

Arteta has. He - and Edu - have done an absolutely phenomenal job of rebuilding our squad in a relatively short space of time.

Good point and well made. But it does ask another more pertinent question; if Wenger managed to get that lot to 6th place and almost to an EL final, Arteta must be so far below shit Wenger when it comes to ability that he has to have an entirely new squad to be able to compete with what Wenger did. After all, Emery finished 6th with a handful of additional players, Arteta finished 8th with 2 thirds of a new team.
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Re: 2021

Postby Arsenal Tone » Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:54 am

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Arsenal Tone wrote:
theHotHead wrote:We never needed a big rebuild, like I stated umpteen times before, our only problem was our lack of defensive capability and that was due to Wenger not focusing on defending at all, offensively we were fine.

Had Emery and then Arteta not been arse clowns we could easily have improved our defensiveness which would automatically have made us top 4 competitive.
The Wenger holiday camp mentality was our biggest problem. Emery tried to sort it and the players downed tools. They tried to do the same to Arteta and he made an example of him. Then last January he let a lot of them go. That is my take of it.

No he didn't ! Emery came in and alienated Ozil while having no better creative options in the squad. He got rid of Ozil then begged for him to come back and save his arse.

Who are these "Wenger Holiday campers"?? When Emery came he released Wilshere, Cazorla, Perez and some fringe players, Only Wilshere of the 3 I named could be classed as a Wenger mentality player. the next season he let Ramsey, Mkhi, Iwobi, Ospina and Welbeck go, players not good enough, but not what I would call holiday campers.

There was no such thing as a holiday camp mentality, we had some poor players but we also had plenty of decent players. Mkhi left us and went on to contribute 14 goals in 22 games for Roma. What Emery did transfer wise was spot on when he joined, he identified our key weaknesses and addressed them - Goalkeeper, Centre Back, Defensive midfielder, box to box CM. He then proceeded to do worse than Wenger with a better team.

Here I can credit Arteta for getting rid of lots of deadwood, but even he was a massive doughnut in 2020/21 and kept loads of players that should've been sold/released.

I need to know who these Wenger Holiday Campers are that Emery had to sort out.


Wenger's entire squad for years had a crap mentality. Basic errors, lack of effort and consistency. We spoke many times about how we collapsed when things were going well and only put the effort in when things went to shit. It was a constant cycle and it has been happening for years.
It was nearly ALL his players that suffered from it and it came from Wenger.
The culture at the club was rotten to the core and that is why it needed a rebuild.

Here is the squad of players from 17/18 season - those that had more than 5 starts - that you are saying did not need a rebuild? Are you serious??
In red, the ones already gone
In Amber - the ones all but gone and have shown they don't have the right mentality at all.
In green - the ones that actually are contributing but also are more or less on the way out.
Left in black the only player that actually has a future with us - and even that is short term.

Tell me which of these players did not/do not need replacing?????
The required overhaul was huge because the squad was getting old and stagnant and the attitude of many of those players was rotten.

Granit Xhaka
Héctor Bellerín
Petr Čech
Alexandre Lacazette
Nacho Monreal
Shkodran Mustafi
Sead Kolašinac
Laurent Koscielny
Mesut Özil
Alex Iwobi
Aaron Ramsey

Alexis Sánchez (gone by the end of the season)
Danny Welbeck
Jack Wilshere

Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
Mohamed Elneny
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
Calum Chambers
Rob Holding
Ainsley Maitland-Niles

I actually feel sorry for Emery because of the job he was asked to do. That squad he inherited was simply not good enough, getting older and in free fall. Wenger had let it slip badly and to an extent, knowing he was near the end of his reign, I can understand the lack of motivation there to rebuild again. Emery needed to totally rip it up and start again, but as the first manager post Wenger he just didn't have the balls to do it.

Arteta has. He - and Edu - have done an absolutely phenomenal job of rebuilding our squad in a relatively short space of time.

Good point and well made. But it does ask another more pertinent question; if Wenger managed to get that lot to 6th place and almost to an EL final, Arteta must be so far below shit Wenger when it comes to ability that he has to have an entirely new squad to be able to compete with what Wenger did. After all, Emery finished 6th with a handful of additional players, Arteta finished 8th with 2 thirds of a new team.
Where would we be now if Wenger was still in charge? That is the million dollar question!
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
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Re: 2021

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:39 am

Arsenal Tone wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Arsenal Tone wrote:
theHotHead wrote:We never needed a big rebuild, like I stated umpteen times before, our only problem was our lack of defensive capability and that was due to Wenger not focusing on defending at all, offensively we were fine.

Had Emery and then Arteta not been arse clowns we could easily have improved our defensiveness which would automatically have made us top 4 competitive.
The Wenger holiday camp mentality was our biggest problem. Emery tried to sort it and the players downed tools. They tried to do the same to Arteta and he made an example of him. Then last January he let a lot of them go. That is my take of it.

No he didn't ! Emery came in and alienated Ozil while having no better creative options in the squad. He got rid of Ozil then begged for him to come back and save his arse.

Who are these "Wenger Holiday campers"?? When Emery came he released Wilshere, Cazorla, Perez and some fringe players, Only Wilshere of the 3 I named could be classed as a Wenger mentality player. the next season he let Ramsey, Mkhi, Iwobi, Ospina and Welbeck go, players not good enough, but not what I would call holiday campers.

There was no such thing as a holiday camp mentality, we had some poor players but we also had plenty of decent players. Mkhi left us and went on to contribute 14 goals in 22 games for Roma. What Emery did transfer wise was spot on when he joined, he identified our key weaknesses and addressed them - Goalkeeper, Centre Back, Defensive midfielder, box to box CM. He then proceeded to do worse than Wenger with a better team.

Here I can credit Arteta for getting rid of lots of deadwood, but even he was a massive doughnut in 2020/21 and kept loads of players that should've been sold/released.

I need to know who these Wenger Holiday Campers are that Emery had to sort out.


Wenger's entire squad for years had a crap mentality. Basic errors, lack of effort and consistency. We spoke many times about how we collapsed when things were going well and only put the effort in when things went to shit. It was a constant cycle and it has been happening for years.
It was nearly ALL his players that suffered from it and it came from Wenger.
The culture at the club was rotten to the core and that is why it needed a rebuild.

Here is the squad of players from 17/18 season - those that had more than 5 starts - that you are saying did not need a rebuild? Are you serious??
In red, the ones already gone
In Amber - the ones all but gone and have shown they don't have the right mentality at all.
In green - the ones that actually are contributing but also are more or less on the way out.
Left in black the only player that actually has a future with us - and even that is short term.

Tell me which of these players did not/do not need replacing?????
The required overhaul was huge because the squad was getting old and stagnant and the attitude of many of those players was rotten.

Granit Xhaka
Héctor Bellerín
Petr Čech
Alexandre Lacazette
Nacho Monreal
Shkodran Mustafi
Sead Kolašinac
Laurent Koscielny
Mesut Özil
Alex Iwobi
Aaron Ramsey

Alexis Sánchez (gone by the end of the season)
Danny Welbeck
Jack Wilshere

Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
Mohamed Elneny
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
Calum Chambers
Rob Holding
Ainsley Maitland-Niles

I actually feel sorry for Emery because of the job he was asked to do. That squad he inherited was simply not good enough, getting older and in free fall. Wenger had let it slip badly and to an extent, knowing he was near the end of his reign, I can understand the lack of motivation there to rebuild again. Emery needed to totally rip it up and start again, but as the first manager post Wenger he just didn't have the balls to do it.

Arteta has. He - and Edu - have done an absolutely phenomenal job of rebuilding our squad in a relatively short space of time.

Good point and well made. But it does ask another more pertinent question; if Wenger managed to get that lot to 6th place and almost to an EL final, Arteta must be so far below shit Wenger when it comes to ability that he has to have an entirely new squad to be able to compete with what Wenger did. After all, Emery finished 6th with a handful of additional players, Arteta finished 8th with 2 thirds of a new team.
Where would we be now if Wenger was still in charge? That is the million dollar question!


Well we know that Wenger would have had to go through the same rebuild process and taken the pain of it because the squad he had was in a mess.
A squad should never get to the stage where so many players need to be replaced, but that is where we were. Emery failed because he didn't go far enough. He tried to tweak it instead of rebuilding it.
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Re: 2021

Postby Arsenal Tone » Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:43 am

jayramfootball wrote:
Arsenal Tone wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Arsenal Tone wrote:
theHotHead wrote:We never needed a big rebuild, like I stated umpteen times before, our only problem was our lack of defensive capability and that was due to Wenger not focusing on defending at all, offensively we were fine.

Had Emery and then Arteta not been arse clowns we could easily have improved our defensiveness which would automatically have made us top 4 competitive.
The Wenger holiday camp mentality was our biggest problem. Emery tried to sort it and the players downed tools. They tried to do the same to Arteta and he made an example of him. Then last January he let a lot of them go. That is my take of it.

No he didn't ! Emery came in and alienated Ozil while having no better creative options in the squad. He got rid of Ozil then begged for him to come back and save his arse.

Who are these "Wenger Holiday campers"?? When Emery came he released Wilshere, Cazorla, Perez and some fringe players, Only Wilshere of the 3 I named could be classed as a Wenger mentality player. the next season he let Ramsey, Mkhi, Iwobi, Ospina and Welbeck go, players not good enough, but not what I would call holiday campers.

There was no such thing as a holiday camp mentality, we had some poor players but we also had plenty of decent players. Mkhi left us and went on to contribute 14 goals in 22 games for Roma. What Emery did transfer wise was spot on when he joined, he identified our key weaknesses and addressed them - Goalkeeper, Centre Back, Defensive midfielder, box to box CM. He then proceeded to do worse than Wenger with a better team.

Here I can credit Arteta for getting rid of lots of deadwood, but even he was a massive doughnut in 2020/21 and kept loads of players that should've been sold/released.

I need to know who these Wenger Holiday Campers are that Emery had to sort out.


Wenger's entire squad for years had a crap mentality. Basic errors, lack of effort and consistency. We spoke many times about how we collapsed when things were going well and only put the effort in when things went to shit. It was a constant cycle and it has been happening for years.
It was nearly ALL his players that suffered from it and it came from Wenger.
The culture at the club was rotten to the core and that is why it needed a rebuild.

Here is the squad of players from 17/18 season - those that had more than 5 starts - that you are saying did not need a rebuild? Are you serious??
In red, the ones already gone
In Amber - the ones all but gone and have shown they don't have the right mentality at all.
In green - the ones that actually are contributing but also are more or less on the way out.
Left in black the only player that actually has a future with us - and even that is short term.

Tell me which of these players did not/do not need replacing?????
The required overhaul was huge because the squad was getting old and stagnant and the attitude of many of those players was rotten.

Granit Xhaka
Héctor Bellerín
Petr Čech
Alexandre Lacazette
Nacho Monreal
Shkodran Mustafi
Sead Kolašinac
Laurent Koscielny
Mesut Özil
Alex Iwobi
Aaron Ramsey

Alexis Sánchez (gone by the end of the season)
Danny Welbeck
Jack Wilshere

Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
Mohamed Elneny
Henrikh Mkhitaryan
Calum Chambers
Rob Holding
Ainsley Maitland-Niles

I actually feel sorry for Emery because of the job he was asked to do. That squad he inherited was simply not good enough, getting older and in free fall. Wenger had let it slip badly and to an extent, knowing he was near the end of his reign, I can understand the lack of motivation there to rebuild again. Emery needed to totally rip it up and start again, but as the first manager post Wenger he just didn't have the balls to do it.

Arteta has. He - and Edu - have done an absolutely phenomenal job of rebuilding our squad in a relatively short space of time.

Good point and well made. But it does ask another more pertinent question; if Wenger managed to get that lot to 6th place and almost to an EL final, Arteta must be so far below shit Wenger when it comes to ability that he has to have an entirely new squad to be able to compete with what Wenger did. After all, Emery finished 6th with a handful of additional players, Arteta finished 8th with 2 thirds of a new team.
Where would we be now if Wenger was still in charge? That is the million dollar question!


Well we know that Wenger would have had to go through the same rebuild process and taken the pain of it because the squad he had was in a mess.
A squad should never get to the stage where so many players need to be replaced, but that is where we were. Emery failed because he didn't go far enough. He tried to tweak it instead of rebuilding it.
Wenger had no intention of rebuilding, he would have had to admit to his mistakes to do that.
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
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Re: 2021

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:45 am

theHotHead wrote:Good point and well made. But it does ask another more pertinent question; if Wenger managed to get that lot to 6th place and almost to an EL final, Arteta must be so far below shit Wenger when it comes to ability that he has to have an entirely new squad to be able to compete with what Wenger did. After all, Emery finished 6th with a handful of additional players, Arteta finished 8th with 2 thirds of a new team.


I think we could have muddled on without changing things dramatically and been around 6th-8th, but tweaking that squad was never getting 4th again and certainly never challenging for a title. I've said before that Arteta also made the mistake of thinking it could and he also tried to tweak it. Rookie error.
The run of 2 points from 21 changed the game in my view and there was a realisation that a completely new strategy was needed.
We've gone from no hope of being top 4 to a real hope of being top 4 with a fresh squad and a positive outlook. The challenge now is to go from a real hope of 4th to being in the top 4 and then pushing on. I have zero doubt that most Arsenal fans would agree that is a possibility now, something that would not have been the case at any time over the past 4 years.
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