Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:41 pm

StockGooner wrote:You two should probably ignore each other. Just accept you have different views. Every single thread comes to this.

Jay just because he has a different view you can't say he has no clue.

Just accept that you disagree and stop leaving comments for the other to pick up. If anyone on here is so stubborn to think they are 100% correct then they are the one with the problem. (Except Starman. He is always 100% correct I won't argue with his stats)
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby Marsbar100 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:42 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
StockGooner wrote:You two should probably ignore each other. Just accept you have different views. Every single thread comes to this.

Jay just because he has a different view you can't say he has no clue.

Just accept that you disagree and stop leaving comments for the other to pick up. If anyone on here is so stubborn to think they are 100% correct then they are the one with the problem. (Except Starman. He is always 100% correct I won't argue with his stats)
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby EliteKiller » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:58 pm

The problem with a lot of the arguments for "we will never fail" is that they are based on where the game was, not where the game is now ...

Since the second world war until probably as late as 2010 football clubs income came primarily from the paying customers, the fans. During that entire period Arsenal were at the top, or at least very near the top, of the revenue generators, we could employ 'unknown' managers who could be brought in and given the financial means to compete with the very best, using our financial clout to buy the best players both senior and junior ... but all that has changed

Before 2010/11 the TV revenues shared in the EPL were 400m a year - in 2011 that jumped to 900m a year - by 2016 it was 1,600m a year - by 2019 that was 2.6 billion and who knows where it will end up.

Add to that TV money the likes of Chelsea, City, Leicester, Everton were all getting wealthy backers - West Ham and Spurs got new mega stadiums and suddenly we were no longer one of the few wealthy clubs, we were just one of many wealthy clubs and found ourselves a step behind the elite.

To argue nothing has changed, that managers and players, and indeed young fans, will still see Arsenal as a "behemoth" that's simply not true ... we may still be a giant but we now live in a land full of giants ... we need to learn to compete, and we need to do it fast.

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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:11 pm

EliteKiller wrote:The problem with a lot of the arguments for "we will never fail" is that they are based on where the game was, not where the game is now ...

Since the second world war until probably as late as 2010 football clubs income came primarily from the paying customers, the fans. During that entire period Arsenal were at the top, or at least very near the top, of the revenue generators, we could employ 'unknown' managers who could be brought in and given the financial means to compete with the very best, using our financial clout to buy the best players both senior and junior ... but all that has changed

Before 2010/11 the TV revenue shared in the EPL were 400m a year - in 2011 that jumped to 900m a year - by 2016 it was 1,600m a year - by 2019 that was 2.6 billion and who knows where it will end up.

Add to that TV money the likes of Chelsea, City, Leicester, Everton were all getting wealthy backers - West Ham and Spurs got new mega stadiums and suddenly we were no longer one of the few wealthy clubs, we were just one of many wealthy clubs and found ourselves a step behind the elite.

To argue nothing has changed, that managers and players, and indeed young fans, will still see Arsenal as a "behemoth" that's simply not true ... we may still be a giant but we now live in a land full of giants ... we need to learn to compete, and we need to do it fast.

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I think that the ever-increasing money is only going to level things out, not make it harder to compete.
If every club is a giant, no club is a giant.
I say bring it on.
There was a time when a club like Villa, for example, could dream of winning the league.
The competition was better.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby EliteKiller » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:29 pm

jayramfootball wrote:I think that the ever-increasing money is only going to level things out, not make it harder to compete.
If every club is a giant, no club is a giant.
I say bring it on.
There was a time when a club like Villa, for example, could dream of winning the league.
The competition was better.


I think you're right - look at Newcastle, bouncing between the top two divisions for years with never a prayer of a title, now they can dream - there are a lot of rich countries and rich conglomerates who could buy a Villa, Leeds indeed pretty much any club and with enough money give them a chance.

Right now you have a top four - City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd who are struggling - then you have another group Arsenal/Spurs/Everton/West Ham/Leicester and now Newcastle who could conceivably step up - you then have another bunch who have a one in a million chance of doing a Leicester but who with the right money could also become a giant

As you rightly say If every club is a giant, no club is a giant, we just need to make sure we are a well managed giant, because soon if not already, gone will be the days when just money alone will be enough.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:42 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:I think that the ever-increasing money is only going to level things out, not make it harder to compete.
If every club is a giant, no club is a giant.
I say bring it on.
There was a time when a club like Villa, for example, could dream of winning the league.
The competition was better.


I think you're right - look at Newcastle, bouncing between the top two divisions for years with never a prayer of a title, now they can dream - there are a lot of rich countries and rich conglomerates who could buy a Villa, Leeds indeed pretty much any club and with enough money give them a chance.

Right now you have a top four - City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man Utd who are struggling - then you have another group Arsenal/Spurs/Everton/West Ham/Leicester and now Newcastle who could conceivably step up - you then have another bunch who have a one in a million chance of doing a Leicester but who with the right money could also become a giant

As you rightly say If every club is a giant, no club is a giant, we just need to make sure we are a well managed giant, because soon if not already, gone will be the days when just money alone will be enough.


I think it will also make management more important again.

I saw Pep's response to a player hinting that they might leave (Sterling)
Pep Guardiola has told Raheem Sterling — and the rest of his Manchester City squad — that they are free to leave the club if they are unhappy.


Right now he can afford to say that.
One leaves, the chequebook buys another.

If the top players are earning as much elsewhere all of sudden it becomes harder to just go shopping for more sweets.
Development of players, scouting and man-management become more important.

I don't think many of the 'top' managers would be the top managers if the playing field were more equal.
Pep certainly not.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby ag6789 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:55 pm

Money is of course very important but proper organization and aspirations carry equally weight. For example a very potent academy can lessen lot of financial burden of the club and guarantee long term success. Also bring more unity amongst players. Makes the manager's life easy.
We have seen this w/ManU in the past and currently w/BDortmund.
At this rate we can counter mega rich clubs who corner the market.
Currently our academy seems to be doing good, as we have good prospects in numbers. We aren't financially badly of either, just need to be careful and focused in recruiting really talented individuals who will compliment our current team.
So our recruitment need to shape up.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby theHotHead » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:27 pm

I think as it stands right now and where football is headed, Arsenal is far too big a club to fail. We may go through a barren run but c'est la vie, what are you gonna do !! I see Arsenal as a massive club, I don't buy into the doom and gloom - yes I am pissed off with Arteta but I also think the squad is good enough to challenge for top 4, so lets get up and at 'em. I will NEVER see Arsenal as the dwindling club people are making us out to be. Even when Liverpool were doing nothing you had to say their name with respect, the same goes for Arsenal.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:33 pm

theHotHead wrote:I think as it stands right now and where football is headed, Arsenal is far too big a club to fail. We may go through a barren run but c'est la vie, what are you gonna do !! I see Arsenal as a massive club, I don't buy into the doom and gloom - yes I am pissed off with Arteta but I also think the squad is good enough to challenge for top 4, so lets get up and at 'em. I will NEVER see Arsenal as the dwindling club people are making us out to be. Even when Liverpool were doing nothing you had to say their name with respect, the same goes for Arsenal.


For sure.

Sure if we drift into obscurity in 50 years time our history will be less impressive, but as it stands it's less than 20 years (a blink of an eye in football) that the greatest team in English football history lined up in the red and white of Arsenal. Still living legends admired the world over - and our history spans a century of regular success.

We're in the top 10 biggest football clubs in the world.
I don't see that changing any time soon.

Manchester Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool - the 3 biggest clubs in the PL.
Others may come and go, by financially cheating like Chelsea or City, or through true achievement like Leicester City or going back Nottm Forest, but the big 3 are Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:47 pm

theHotHead wrote:I think as it stands right now and where football is headed, Arsenal is far too big a club to fail. We may go through a barren run but c'est la vie, what are you gonna do !! I see Arsenal as a massive club, I don't buy into the doom and gloom - yes I am pissed off with Arteta but I also think the squad is good enough to challenge for top 4, so lets get up and at 'em. I will NEVER see Arsenal as the dwindling club people are making us out to be. Even when Liverpool were doing nothing you had to say their name with respect, the same goes for Arsenal.


We're biased as fans. We'll always have rose tints on when it comes to Arsenal. Does that respect carry through beyond here and amongst other fans? I'm slightly out of touch these days but heck, I played the latest Fifa and our player stats were shocking. Ramsdale, Tomiyasu, Gabriel, White, Lokonga, ESR....poor stats. In my mind, I'm thinking there is no way we're as poor as that. But am I being delusional with the rose tints on? What are the kids saying these days? We were just discussing how Ben White doesn’t even know who Vieira is. That's odd to me. Well, White doesn’t watch footie at all as discussed, but I'm wondering what the kids are saying these days. Who are their heroes from this team?
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:59 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I think as it stands right now and where football is headed, Arsenal is far too big a club to fail. We may go through a barren run but c'est la vie, what are you gonna do !! I see Arsenal as a massive club, I don't buy into the doom and gloom - yes I am pissed off with Arteta but I also think the squad is good enough to challenge for top 4, so lets get up and at 'em. I will NEVER see Arsenal as the dwindling club people are making us out to be. Even when Liverpool were doing nothing you had to say their name with respect, the same goes for Arsenal.


We're biased as fans. We'll always have rose tints on when it comes to Arsenal. Does that respect carry through beyond here and amongst other fans? I'm slightly out of touch these days but heck, I played the latest Fifa and our player stats were shocking. Ramsdale, Tomiyasu, Gabriel, White, Lokonga, ESR....poor stats. In my mind, I'm thinking there is no way we're as poor as that. But am I being delusional with the rose tints on? What are the kids saying these days? We were just discussing how Ben White doesn’t even know who Vieira is. That's odd to me. Well, White doesn’t watch footie at all as discussed, but I'm wondering what the kids are saying these days. Who are their heroes from this team?


Fifa is a computer game. It's not real life.
What some game developers and consultants decide is a rating for a player isn't real.
The essence of 22 players on a pitch playing the game can not be described by a few ratings ordained by a few people.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:08 pm

theHotHead wrote:I think as it stands right now and where football is headed, Arsenal is far too big a club to fail. We may go through a barren run but c'est la vie, what are you gonna do !! I see Arsenal as a massive club, I don't buy into the doom and gloom - yes I am pissed off with Arteta but I also think the squad is good enough to challenge for top 4, so lets get up and at 'em. I will NEVER see Arsenal as the dwindling club people are making us out to be. Even when Liverpool were doing nothing you had to say their name with respect, the same goes for Arsenal.


No such thing as too big to fail. Arteta had us in 15th place a year ago, barely 3 months after lifting the FA Cup. Clubs that are too big to fail kick the manager to the curb the second that happens.

I'd argue we've already failed, it's only the full impact of thse consequences that aren't being felt yet. Many red flags however:

-- lack of goals. Even under Emery we scored a ton, so what's Arteta's excuse?

-- lack of star signings: Arteta doesn't have the pull

-- overpaying for young players, while ignoring numerous players he didn't personally get to pick

-- growing sentiment that no European football is a positive because it lets us focus on the league.
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