Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby Salibatelli » Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:42 am

It’s simple for me, as Angelito said we need things that aren’t going to happen.

1. An elite manager who knows what it takes to win, raises the level of the players.

2. Some money, the same amount the current lot have had could be enough if spent more wisely.

Can’t see this happening however so we won’t be winning a title for a long time and the CL is probably beyond us too (qualifying).

I mean we’ve been well miles away for two seasons now and people are still talking about top 6 being our target despite spending a fortune, so that tells you everything you know.

If anyone else had spent 160 odd million, top 4 would certainly be the target, especially when we have no European football.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby theHotHead » Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:22 am

Ok lets address this alleged lack of ambition at the club. If the Kroenkes were doing a "Mike Ashley" that would make perfect sense, to call it a lack of ambition, but they are splashing the cash. You don't splash the cash if you don't have ambition, surely. Arteta is getting paid half of what the top managers get, but thats only a saving of circa £5m over a season, so that can't be cited as a lack of ambition.

The accusation of a lack of ambition to me doesn't match our spending, so it needs to be called something else, probably incompetence.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby theHotHead » Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:27 am

Özim wrote:It’s simple for me, as Angelito said we need things that aren’t going to happen.

1. An elite manager who knows what it takes to win, raises the level of the players.

2. Some money, the same amount the current lot have had could be enough if spent more wisely.

Can’t see this happening however so we won’t be winning a title for a long time and the CL is probably beyond us too (qualifying).

I mean we’ve been well miles away for two seasons now and people are still talking about top 6 being our target despite spending a fortune, so that tells you everything you know.

If anyone else had spent 160 odd million, top 4 would certainly be the target, especially when we have no European football.

I disagree, we don't need an elite manager. Brendan Rodgers isn't an elite manager and look what he is doing at Leicester. We just need a manager that can get the best out of players and not spend his way out of trouble.

I disagree that we need more money. We are spending shitloads, we are just going about it the wrong way, spending too much on players (obvious purchases - Pepe and Ben White), we are not buying the right players and we are continuing to play players that have no business putting on an Arsenal shirt. Most of our problems can be fixed easily, some people need to lose the ego and stubbornness and do whats right for the club. A half decent manager would have this lot in the top 6 and at least putting up a top 4 fight even if they don't make it.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby jayramfootball » Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:53 am

theHotHead wrote:
Özim wrote:It’s simple for me, as Angelito said we need things that aren’t going to happen.

1. An elite manager who knows what it takes to win, raises the level of the players.

2. Some money, the same amount the current lot have had could be enough if spent more wisely.

Can’t see this happening however so we won’t be winning a title for a long time and the CL is probably beyond us too (qualifying).

I mean we’ve been well miles away for two seasons now and people are still talking about top 6 being our target despite spending a fortune, so that tells you everything you know.

If anyone else had spent 160 odd million, top 4 would certainly be the target, especially when we have no European football.

I disagree, we don't need an elite manager. Brendan Rodgers isn't an elite manager and look what he is doing at Leicester. We just need a manager that can get the best out of players and not spend his way out of trouble.

I disagree that we need more money. We are spending shitloads, we are just going about it the wrong way, spending too much on players (obvious purchases - Pepe and Ben White), we are not buying the right players and we are continuing to play players that have no business putting on an Arsenal shirt. Most of our problems can be fixed easily, some people need to lose the ego and stubbornness and do whats right for the club. A half decent manager would have this lot in the top 6 and at least putting up a top 4 fight even if they don't make it.


Disgaree - we are going about spending money in exactly the right way. Though, clearly, we should have started earlier.

You agreed too not so long ago. I remember discussing how Liverpool had managed to spend so much, but had a lower net spend than us. How they rebuilt their squad. Coutinho, for example, was picked up for 8.5m and at the time is exactly the kind of player our fans would have been moaning about now if we signed him at the time Liverpool did. A kid who had not made it in Italy and was being loaned around Spain when he signed for Liverpool. They sold him for over 100m. Those kind of transfers were pivotal in Liverpool's reemergence and they didn't do it overnight.

Our squad was not good enough and no one wants those old failure players. We couldn't - and still can't in many cases - shift them. When we do we can't get fees for them that enable us to reinvest in better. What we are doing now is spot on. Younger players whose value had the potential to increase dramatically. We're on the road to a much healthier position.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby theHotHead » Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:05 am

jayramfootball wrote:Disgaree - we are going about spending money in exactly the right way. Though, clearly, we should have started earlier.

You agreed too not so long ago. I remember discussing how Liverpool had managed to spend so much, but had a lower net spend than us. How they rebuilt their squad. Coutinho, for example, was picked up for 8.5m and at the time is exactly the kind of player our fans would have been moaning about now if we signed him at the time Liverpool did. A kid who had not made it in Italy and was being loaned around Spain when he signed for Liverpool. They sold him for over 100m. Those kind of transfers were pivotal in Liverpool's reemergence and they didn't do it overnight.

Our squad was not good enough and no one wants those old failure players. We couldn't - and still can't in many cases - shift them. When we do we can't get fees for them that enable us to reinvest in better. What we are doing now is spot on. Younger players whose value had the potential to increase dramatically. We're on the road to a much healthier position.

Where we are not spending the money correctly is over-spending on players, I made that quite clear. I have also said that we must make shrewd purchases, they don't cost an arm and a leg, Coutinho would be in that bracket, as are Tomi and Lokonga, again, I have no problem with that.

I have a problem with spunking big money on mediocre players. I have a problem with us spunking good money on dead players too (contract renewals).

By the way, I don't think fans would moan about the Coutinho purchase, consider, that was Wenger's MO, buying players few people had heard of and them turning into top players. I think Arsenal fans moan when we are linked with mediocre players that we all know. I know there were some murmurs about Lokonga and Tavares, but I think that was more because of our situation last season and a desire to compete that people equate with spending big on players. My reaction to the Lokonga purchase was "problem position, lets see what the kid can do", I had no negativity. I had a bit for Tavares because I didn't see the point in buying a backup player when we needed starters.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby jayramfootball » Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:18 am

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Disgaree - we are going about spending money in exactly the right way. Though, clearly, we should have started earlier.

You agreed too not so long ago. I remember discussing how Liverpool had managed to spend so much, but had a lower net spend than us. How they rebuilt their squad. Coutinho, for example, was picked up for 8.5m and at the time is exactly the kind of player our fans would have been moaning about now if we signed him at the time Liverpool did. A kid who had not made it in Italy and was being loaned around Spain when he signed for Liverpool. They sold him for over 100m. Those kind of transfers were pivotal in Liverpool's reemergence and they didn't do it overnight.

Our squad was not good enough and no one wants those old failure players. We couldn't - and still can't in many cases - shift them. When we do we can't get fees for them that enable us to reinvest in better. What we are doing now is spot on. Younger players whose value had the potential to increase dramatically. We're on the road to a much healthier position.

Where we are not spending the money correctly is over-spending on players, I made that quite clear. I have also said that we must make shrewd purchases, they don't cost an arm and a leg, Coutinho would be in that bracket, as are Tomi and Lokonga, again, I have no problem with that.

I have a problem with spunking big money on mediocre players. I have a problem with us spunking good money on dead players too (contract renewals).

By the way, I don't think fans would moan about the Coutinho purchase, consider, that was Wenger's MO, buying players few people had heard of and them turning into top players. I think Arsenal fans moan when we are linked with mediocre players that we all know. I know there were some murmurs about Lokonga and Tavares, but I think that was more because of our situation last season and a desire to compete that people equate with spending big on players. My reaction to the Lokonga purchase was "problem position, lets see what the kid can do", I had no negativity. I had a bit for Tavares because I didn't see the point in buying a backup player when we needed starters.


Look at the whole. We spent 150m on 6 young talented players who have been through their initial development cycle and can all contribute now.
That is an average of 25m per player, which is perfectly fine. That 150m investment is likely to turn into much more in asset value.

As for 'mediocre players that we all know'. sorry but that doesn't fly. Of all the players that we signed no one had any clue about any of them other than Odegaard. You are equating mediocre with how much you know about a player. All 6 of the signings look like they have bright futures.
Then we also have Gabriel, Martinelli, ESR, Saka and Tierney.

We're talking 11 players there that cost us, what ... 210m? Probably already have an asset value of well over 350m and they are all young.
The direction right now is spot on, IMO and when you look at the list of signings Edu has made he's doing a f***ing brilliant job overall, despite a couple of howlers like Willian:

Gabriel, 23
Martinelli, 20
Tierney, 24
Lokonga, 21
Odegaard, 22
Ramsdale, 23
White, 23
Tomiyasu, 22
Tavares, 21

then..
Saka, 20
ESR, 21

#revolution - and not before time.

If you can't be excited about that group over the next 3-4 years then I don't know what to tell you.
In 5 years time the oldest of that group will be 29 and the youngest still only 25.

You want to know what else is significant about those players? Character. Look down the list. They ALL have the right mentality to supplement their talent. No surprise and gives even more of an insight into the current strategy.

However, being young, it WILL take time for them to gel as a group and become consistent. They WILL make mistakes. They WILL lose some games they shouldn't. They WON'T always be on top form. I understand that it is going to take 2-3 years before we can seriously challenge. Till then, I will be happy to see progress and as long as we get top 6 and push towards top 4 this season (not miles away), the future remains bright.

Unfortunately, we have some cancerous fans who will actively try and destroy the confidence of this young group at EVERY opportunity. One mistake will be reason for them to call a player shit and write off their whole career. My biggest hope is that those fans fail miserably and the players get the support they need to progress.

We will have more players to come in too - striker(s) - one or 2 depending on what happens with Nketiah and Balogun.. and probably another defender and DM... but once they come in and the deadwood and ageing players are gone we're in good shape (great shape actually) and I am mightily impressed with how quickly we have changed our outlook to a significantly more positive one from where we were.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby Arsenal Tone » Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:12 am

theHotHead wrote:
Özim wrote:It’s simple for me, as Angelito said we need things that aren’t going to happen.

1. An elite manager who knows what it takes to win, raises the level of the players.

2. Some money, the same amount the current lot have had could be enough if spent more wisely.

Can’t see this happening however so we won’t be winning a title for a long time and the CL is probably beyond us too (qualifying).

I mean we’ve been well miles away for two seasons now and people are still talking about top 6 being our target despite spending a fortune, so that tells you everything you know.

If anyone else had spent 160 odd million, top 4 would certainly be the target, especially when we have no European football.

I disagree, we don't need an elite manager. Brendan Rodgers isn't an elite manager and look what he is doing at Leicester. We just need a manager that can get the best out of players and not spend his way out of trouble.

I disagree that we need more money. We are spending shitloads, we are just going about it the wrong way, spending too much on players (obvious purchases - Pepe and Ben White), we are not buying the right players and we are continuing to play players that have no business putting on an Arsenal shirt. Most of our problems can be fixed easily, some people need to lose the ego and stubbornness and do whats right for the club. A half decent manager would have this lot in the top 6 and at least putting up a top 4 fight even if they don't make it.
We're on the same points as leicester having played city and chelsea
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby theHotHead » Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:47 pm

Arsenal Tone wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Özim wrote:It’s simple for me, as Angelito said we need things that aren’t going to happen.

1. An elite manager who knows what it takes to win, raises the level of the players.

2. Some money, the same amount the current lot have had could be enough if spent more wisely.

Can’t see this happening however so we won’t be winning a title for a long time and the CL is probably beyond us too (qualifying).

I mean we’ve been well miles away for two seasons now and people are still talking about top 6 being our target despite spending a fortune, so that tells you everything you know.

If anyone else had spent 160 odd million, top 4 would certainly be the target, especially when we have no European football.

I disagree, we don't need an elite manager. Brendan Rodgers isn't an elite manager and look what he is doing at Leicester. We just need a manager that can get the best out of players and not spend his way out of trouble.

I disagree that we need more money. We are spending shitloads, we are just going about it the wrong way, spending too much on players (obvious purchases - Pepe and Ben White), we are not buying the right players and we are continuing to play players that have no business putting on an Arsenal shirt. Most of our problems can be fixed easily, some people need to lose the ego and stubbornness and do whats right for the club. A half decent manager would have this lot in the top 6 and at least putting up a top 4 fight even if they don't make it.
We're on the same points as leicester having played city and chelsea

So we should be, we have a better squad and more money than Leicester!! Matching them for us is failure!

Rodgers is doing more with what he has than Arteta with what he has. And Leicester finished above us last season
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby theHotHead » Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:55 pm

Jay there is nothing special about Pepe or White but we paid top top dollar for them. I have no problem with what we spent on the rest of the players.

White cost more than Partey ffs, thats just crazy.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby starmandb » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:00 pm

Jez wrote:imagine only beating norwich 1-0 lmao

everton have just beaten them 2-0

even watford put 3 past them

How many did Man City put past spurs?
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:40 pm

starmandb wrote:
Jez wrote:imagine only beating norwich 1-0 lmao

everton have just beaten them 2-0

even watford put 3 past them

How many did Man City put past spurs?


:clap:
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