Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby Ach » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:26 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Arsenal Tone wrote:GK Ramsdale, ???
RB Tomiyasu, ???
LB Tierney, Tavares
RCB White, Saliba
LCB Gabriel, ???
DM ???, ???
CM Partey, Lokonga
CAM Odegaard/Smith Rowe
LW Saka, Martinelli
RW ???, Pepe (Smith Rowe/Odegaard?)
CF ???, ???

Seven or eight players are needed imo. Some of the squad players might come internally from players like Ballard, Azeez, Patino and Balogun.

But if we sign top players for DM (in January) and CF (next summer when Auba/Laca go) then we could really start competing.

Odegaard, Smith Rowe and Pepe are all good enough to fill that RW spot imo. But to really transform us another top WF (Saka can play left or right) would take us to another level again and give us more options to rotate and change formations/tactics.

Players like Leno, Auba and Laca are on their way out and aren't the future. I'd be happy with Xhaka as a squad player as cover for the DM if he'd be happy with that.

Players like Chambers, Holding, Cedric and Elneny are a level below what we need as squad players. They have likely reached their peak and need to move on.

Imagine if ESR, Odegaard, Pepe and Saka start chipping in with the goals they are good enough to be scoring !! then imagine Laca and Auba scoring half the goals they should be scoring. Arsenal would be in an entirely different position. There is no way the players I listed should be struggling to score goals.

Have you seen our manager? Mr sideways passes is king
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby Dejan » Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:02 pm

Angelito wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Swipey, we are not Spurs, we are the third most successful team in English football history. We won't do a Spurs, we win stuff, always have. in the last 10 years, as shit as we have been, we have won 4 major trophies !!

We are not that far off challenging, I don't agree with the decade that was mentioned by Ang or 5 years by Jay, we could in all honesty challenge next season if we pick up 2 to 3 players we need and a decent manager.


And, who is going to hire that "decent" manager? Roman Abramovich?

As I've said before, if we hired a world class manager, and backed him as much as we've backed Arteta, we could have a go.

This club shoved Wenger out, hired an inferior manager in Emery, whilst promising a new, European model, dismantled that, and has reverted back to a pseudo-prototype of Wenger-Gazidis years. Nobody has a clue what they're going here.

I don't see us challenging for the league title for a decade at the very least for reasons I've already mentioned in my initial post here.

Sure, if Mohammed bin Salman bought Arsenal and hired a top-notch management team, we'd be challenging for the league within two seasons. That's not the case.

Those fantasies don't work. Again, as I mentioned previously, Kroenkes have no desire to challenge for the league. If they did, they wouldn't be going about business in the manner they have been since Wenger. They didn't care as long as Wenger was qualifying for the UCL.

They didn't have an ounce of nuance when Gazidis started that "cold war" with Wenger after Leicester won the title. They backed Gazidis over Wenger. They forced Wenger out. What then happened? Gazidis weaseled out as soon as he could.

Today, Arteta has the safest job in the world. If he finishes 8th again, he's not getting sacked. Instead, he'd get a new contract.

So, who is supposed to hire that "decent" manager? Certainly not Florentino Perez.

To challenge for the league, you need owners who drive that ambition. At Arsenal, we haven't seen any evidence of that since the Kroenkes became majority shareholders at the club.

Dare I say, if there would be no backlash and no implications, Arsenal (and Spurs) would abandon English football and become permanent parts of the super league. Because these two clubs, as of now, don't care about winning titles. That can't be said about City, Chelsea, Liverpool, or ManU.

You're imagining a fantastic world where Kroenkes would hire a quality manager, a visionary DoF, and allow them to achieve for Arsenal. Evidence shows, that's not the case.


well said, mate.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby Salibatelli » Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:00 pm

I think of you ever wanted to know anything about the Arsenal owners’ ambitions you only need to look at what happened last season.

A disastrous period where we were losing left right and centre, knocked out of the EL by the manager we sacked (anyway you look at it it’s embarrassing, it’s not like he moved to a huge club with endless finances) and we finished 8th after finishing 8th the previous season, which ensured no European football for the first time in 25 years.

What do the owners do, give the guy who failed spectacularly money to spend at will, basically reward failure.

People who are interested in success and are winners don’t do that, as I said before Arteta would not have been manager this season at any other big club (that’s if he even survived last season).

But at Arsenal it’s different, he’s gets another shot, the lack of ambition has been a problem for a long time. Yes we got money this summer (no one knows how it’s paid back or if it’s just from them though so we might have mortgaged the club going forward), but that money should have come with the remit that it needs to make this team much more competitive now.

Instead we’ve kicked the fan down the road, we may have less money if the money came from the clubs earnings and when some of these players do start becoming experienced enough their contract will be running out and they’ll probably leave because they want to go to a club who can offer success, contracts aren’t out strong point either as we know!
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:05 pm

Özim wrote:I think of you ever wanted to know anything about the Arsenal owners’ ambitions you only need to look at what happened last season.

A disastrous period where we were losing left right and centre, knocked out of the EL by the manager we sacked (anyway you look at it it’s embarrassing, it’s not like he moved to a huge club with endless finances) and we finished 8th after finishing 8th the previous season, which ensured no European football for the first time in 25 years.

What do the owners do, give the guy who failed spectacularly money to spend at will, basically reward failure.

People who are interested in success and are winners don’t do that, as I said before Arteta would not have been manager this season at any other big club (that’s if he even survived last season).

But at Arsenal it’s different, he’s gets another shot, the lack of ambition has been a problem for a long time. Yes we got money this summer (no one knows how it’s paid back or if it’s just from them though so we might have mortgaged the club going forward), but that money should have come with the remit that it needs to make this team much more competitive now.

Instead we’ve kicked the fan down the road, we may have less money if the money came from the clubs earnings and when some of these players do start becoming experienced enough their contract will be running out and they’ll probably leave because they want to go to a club who can offer success, contracts aren’t out strong point either as we know!


^yeah, you said that already across pretty much every single thread on the forum.

You've been wrong every time.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby ag6789 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:29 pm

Yes, Arteta was given another chance since he was able to turn around and ended ,not very creditably, 8th and , the owners realized it would be even more detrimental sacking managers every few months. There wasn't any good solution at hand, so they did stick w/ Arteta.
I'm sure if we remained in 13-14th spot longer , Arty would have gotten the sack.
This time around, things aren't great either; next few games will certainly decide Atrteta's future.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby Salibatelli » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:54 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:I think of you ever wanted to know anything about the Arsenal owners’ ambitions you only need to look at what happened last season.

A disastrous period where we were losing left right and centre, knocked out of the EL by the manager we sacked (anyway you look at it it’s embarrassing, it’s not like he moved to a huge club with endless finances) and we finished 8th after finishing 8th the previous season, which ensured no European football for the first time in 25 years.

What do the owners do, give the guy who failed spectacularly money to spend at will, basically reward failure.

People who are interested in success and are winners don’t do that, as I said before Arteta would not have been manager this season at any other big club (that’s if he even survived last season).

But at Arsenal it’s different, he’s gets another shot, the lack of ambition has been a problem for a long time. Yes we got money this summer (no one knows how it’s paid back or if it’s just from them though so we might have mortgaged the club going forward), but that money should have come with the remit that it needs to make this team much more competitive now.

Instead we’ve kicked the fan down the road, we may have less money if the money came from the clubs earnings and when some of these players do start becoming experienced enough their contract will be running out and they’ll probably leave because they want to go to a club who can offer success, contracts aren’t out strong point either as we know!


^yeah, you said that already across pretty much every single thread on the forum.

You've been wrong every time.


No I’m right everytime.

You my friend are wrong pretty much everytime however at the moment.
Last edited by Salibatelli on Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby Salibatelli » Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:57 pm

ag6789 wrote:Yes, Arteta was given another chance since he was able to turn around and ended ,not very creditably, 8th and , the owners realized it would be even more detrimental sacking managers every few months. There wasn't any good solution at hand, so they did stick w/ Arteta.
I'm sure if we remained in 13-14th spot longer , Arty would have gotten the sack.
This time around, things aren't great either; next few games will certainly decide Atrteta's future.


Every few months? It was 18 months which is plenty. Other clubs do it and get success doing it, it’s only a thing at Arsenal a club who reward failure! Conte was available he was a very credible solution.

8th (twice) should be an instant sacking at a club as big as Arsenal (it is at other big clubs), especially when you add in failing too qualify for Europe and being outthought by the manager we deemed not good enough in the EL.

You don’t stick with a manager who comes 8th twice and has no pedigree if you are bothered about success.
Last edited by Salibatelli on Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby Arsenal Tone » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:02 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Arsenal Tone wrote:GK Ramsdale, ???
RB Tomiyasu, ???
LB Tierney, Tavares
RCB White, Saliba
LCB Gabriel, ???
DM ???, ???
CM Partey, Lokonga
CAM Odegaard/Smith Rowe
LW Saka, Martinelli
RW ???, Pepe (Smith Rowe/Odegaard?)
CF ???, ???

Seven or eight players are needed imo. Some of the squad players might come internally from players like Ballard, Azeez, Patino and Balogun.

But if we sign top players for DM (in January) and CF (next summer when Auba/Laca go) then we could really start competing.

Odegaard, Smith Rowe and Pepe are all good enough to fill that RW spot imo. But to really transform us another top WF (Saka can play left or right) would take us to another level again and give us more options to rotate and change formations/tactics.

Players like Leno, Auba and Laca are on their way out and aren't the future. I'd be happy with Xhaka as a squad player as cover for the DM if he'd be happy with that.

Players like Chambers, Holding, Cedric and Elneny are a level below what we need as squad players. They have likely reached their peak and need to move on.

Imagine if ESR, Odegaard, Pepe and Saka start chipping in with the goals they are good enough to be scoring !! then imagine Laca and Auba scoring half the goals they should be scoring. Arsenal would be in an entirely different position. There is no way the players I listed should be struggling to score goals.


I think laca and auba already have one foot out of the door. A new young, hungry striker could transform us next summer.
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby ag6789 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:21 pm

Yes, we should have a new manager every 18 months...on and on and on...
The advisors of Ks probably realized the exercise of hiring and firing a whole bunch of people becomes complicated and messy, so, probably they advised the Ks to bear w/it a bit more w/ this bunch as since Wenger left , Gazidis Mislistat, Raul, ,Unai along with whole lot of their associates have come and gone leaving a trail of destruction of morale and organisation in the club.
I think any other owner (barring Chelski)would have done the same till they find someone that fits the bill.
Arteta of course is balancing a tight rope. But he could very well turn things around with a few good results and the current heavy hitters might lose steam too. I'm sure the Us also
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby ag6789 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:24 pm

Yes, we should have a new manager every 18 months...on and on and on...
The advisors of Ks probably realized the exercise of hiring and firing a whole bunch of people becomes complicated and messy, so, probably they advised the Ks to bear w/it a bit more w/ this bunch as since Wenger left , Gazidis Mislistat, Raul, ,Unai along with whole lot of their associates have come and gone leaving a trail of destruction of morale and organisation in the club.
I think any other owner (barring Chelski)would have done the same till they find someone that fits the bill.
Arteta of course is balancing a tight rope. But he could very well turn things around with a few good results and the current heavy hitters might lose steam too. I'm sure the Ks are also looking at it from this perspective.
I personally feel there's no magic wand,;there will be hits and misses as we cannot buy the league or hit the jackpot w/someone suddenly.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby Salibatelli » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:32 pm

A manager that can’t get an attack to have any potency and whose team displays no clear style of play is never going to turn anything around.

Also 2 years now and we haven’t progressed and don’t look like much of a side, he’s performed terribly and to stick with that is a disgrace, to stick with it when there’s other options around like Conte and Zidane is even more of a disgrace and just highlights lack of ambition, what Alternative are they waiting for?
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby ag6789 » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:06 pm

There are many alternatives and Zidane and Conte are a few of those, but again all of those are punts and will come with their own pluses and minuses. I'm sure if Artey cannot show any consistency he'll be gone and those options will be considered. Until then it won't help moaning and groaning every minute of the day, and it sounds even cacophonous when even some good things happening are belittled and downplayed....smells of narrow mindedness and agenda driven activity.
Need more wholesome constructive criticism not destructive.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:24 pm

Özim wrote:A manager that can’t get an attack to have any potency and whose team displays no clear style of play is never going to turn anything around.

Also 2 years now and we haven’t progressed and don’t look like much of a side, he’s performed terribly and to stick with that is a disgrace, to stick with it when there’s other options around like Conte and Zidane is even more of a disgrace and just highlights lack of ambition, what Alternative are they waiting for?



So you made this an Arteta thread again.
Great. More of your clueless droning on - the same point over and over and over and over.
:rolleyes:
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby theHotHead » Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:54 pm

ag6789 wrote:Yes, we should have a new manager every 18 months...on and on and on...
The advisors of Ks probably realized the exercise of hiring and firing a whole bunch of people becomes complicated and messy, so, probably they advised the Ks to bear w/it a bit more w/ this bunch as since Wenger left , Gazidis Mislistat, Raul, ,Unai along with whole lot of their associates have come and gone leaving a trail of destruction of morale and organisation in the club.
I think any other owner (barring Chelski)would have done the same till they find someone that fits the bill.
Arteta of course is balancing a tight rope. But he could very well turn things around with a few good results and the current heavy hitters might lose steam too. I'm sure the Ks are also looking at it from this perspective.
I personally feel there's no magic wand,;there will be hits and misses as we cannot buy the league or hit the jackpot w/someone suddenly.

We could give him more time, but why take the risk in the hope that he will come good ?

SAF was a game away from being sacked at Man U, he earned the time he got, having done great things in Scotland with Aberdeen ...... Arteta doesn't have any history or experience.

Anyway, I don't want to turn this discussion into an anti Arteta thread, I am more interested in how much work needs to be done to make us challengers.
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Re: Where are Arsenal with readiness to challenge?

Postby Salibatelli » Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:34 am

jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:A manager that can’t get an attack to have any potency and whose team displays no clear style of play is never going to turn anything around.

Also 2 years now and we haven’t progressed and don’t look like much of a side, he’s performed terribly and to stick with that is a disgrace, to stick with it when there’s other options around like Conte and Zidane is even more of a disgrace and just highlights lack of ambition, what Alternative are they waiting for?



So you made this an Arteta thread again.
Great. More of your clueless droning on - the same point over and over and over and over.
:rolleyes:


No pal it was about the lack of ambition of the club, the whole reason why we won’t be winning the title anytime soon.

It’s 5 seasons out of the CL now and we’re further away from it than we’ve ever been and talking about 6th as a decent season, it’s isn’t.
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