Kai Havertz (29)

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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby elkanofan » Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:12 am

Salibatelli wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
Its true West Ham aint been on a good run lately with a loss vs Bristol in the cup mind you. However even their loss to united last week had them with respectable possesion and more shots 13 to United 10 at Old Toilet. They are 7th, they arent relegation fodder Sheffield United, Burnley. This is a solid team, becoming a bit stale under Moyes i agree but solid.

They also started well like we did first 15 and offered a real danger in transition.

We gave them absoluelty nothing and when we scored, it didn't matter even of they wanted to step ot up. We completley outclassed and demoralized them. More importantly showing we have the solution to teams who just sit deep and counter.

Something i give massive praise to Havertz for today showing exaclty what we missed in the 2-0 home disaster. Something West Ham had no awnser to.

He's not a striker, a proper number 9 who just fights the defender and leads the line. When playing vs a deep line, the classic number 9 positioning is predictable to man mark in the build up before we make the final 30 meters towards the box.
West Ham's center backs even moreso than Liverpool last week couldn't track him properly when we had possesion.

Instead he makes these late runs into the box after good work dropping deep to help in possesion. This to occupy their centerbacks by drawing them to him when we look to cross or he's switched positions brilliant today with Martinelli or even Saka at times, unexpected for their cennter backs who were caught out like for our 2nd and 4th goals. Its a shame before Saka's 5th he didnt finish that dribble and shot since that assist with the backflick summed up Havertz today.

So we agree on one thing. Wet Spam needed to show more fight and balls when getting destroyed to get back in it. Moyes needed to be more positive. Thing is, this is being harsh. We were a force today West Ham even at their best had no awnser for.

Masterclass from everyone especially Arteta today.


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I’m not saying they’re a bad sides, they’re not, but today it was really poor from them in terms of desire.

The collapse started after we scored in fact (this was avoidable for them as we’d done the same corner 4 times running leaving our big players at the back post, meanwhile they kept their big players at the near post too close to the keeper and never adapted), after that they were all over the place. Merson said we demoralised them but he said that should never happen you should still have some fight.

2nd goal was actually a West Ham defender out of line with the rest which kept Saka onside, though his run was too, it wasn’t Havertz , he was nowhere near.

I didn’t really see West Ham been drawn to him, what I did see is West Ham very slow and laboured to track players, Trossard had way too much space in the penalty area for the 4th, that should never happen.


This all happened like I said before due to how incredible our player interchanging positions was so West Ham's center back had no idea how to pick anyone up. they were tired chasing after our shadows the first half. As soon as we scored they tried to step it up and the game just few away from them more and more and more.

To be honest I don’t know why you would want to track Havertz, he’s the lowest threat, his finishing is pretty woeful and he’s very casual to run forward (this was on show today several times).


That makes no sense unless you hate Havertz so much your truly believe he will miss free headers from 10 yards out.

He had a couple touches yes, but actually there were several occasion where he lost it, including when he got the ball, hesitated and then passed it straight to a West Ham player (tough goon as they were so far off the pace), or when he passes it to Martinelli and causally jogged forwarded and sat outside the box when Martinelli was looking to cross.


He made 3 mistakes today. Rest of his match overall was brilliant. Still not more than 7.5 though I really like what I see from him in this role.

I just don’t rate him at all and I don’t attribute our form to him, he had the odd pass here and there but he went one of the main drivers.

What you’re now seeing is that Havertz stays more central and actually that Jesus is a pretty poor CF which makes Havertz average performance look good.

I don’t think it’s harsh on West Ham, they’ve been destroyed by all the pundits today and there’s a reason for that, because they showed unacceptable levels of desire and application, we were great I agree and I expect we would have won regardless, but not 6-0, they completely surrendered.

This was a relegation performance by a team that has more quality than that.


Pundits don't like the fact no other team has comprehensively destroyed a West Ham team away from home like that a 8th place team in the league, no bottom relegation side since the 60's.

on a weekend all our rivals won well and we had a weak bench with mass injuries hitting the squad we completely demolish a tough mid table team we had issues and recent losses against before 6-0!

The media don't respect us, they can go f**k themselves. this team has a hanger I've been waiting for to win this thing! This team is built right now to suit everything you need at the highest level in the modern game. I still think we need another striker who is truly cold blooded killer asshole type next season to replace eddie but this team has that fire!
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby Salibatelli » Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:02 am

elkanofan wrote:This all happened like I said before due to how incredible our player interchanging positions was so West Ham's center back had no idea how to pick anyone up. they were tired chasing after our shadows the first half. As soon as we scored they tried to step it up and the game just few away from them more and more and more.


West Ham’s defenders were very poor, the game was analysed several times and they showed just how lethargic and poor they were, I spotted it as soon as we scored the first goal, they were all over the place and Moyes needed to make some sort of change and he failed to so we scored at will before half time, I don’t think West Ham we’re tired at that point considering we were still well in the 1st half. I also think West Ham we’re much too passive going forward always choosing safe passes and not committing which basically allowed us to come forward knowing they were offering no threat, when teams play more incisive football it makes the opposition retreat back.

elkanofan wrote:That makes no sense unless you hate Havertz so much your truly believe he will miss free headers from 10 yards out.


If you have watched him much since he’s been in England and also playing for us, he misses simple chances all the time, what’s more is he didn’t get into the box that much, he’s often behind the play. He’s played in 33 games this season and played a lot and has just 5 goals and 1 assist and one goal was a freebie penalty because players felt sorry for him, that speaks volumes IMO.

elkanofan wrote:He made 3 mistakes today. Rest of his match overall was brilliant. Still not more than 7.5 though I really like what I see from him in this role.


The majority that I’ve seen rate his performance thought he was one of our lesser impressive players and gave him an lower mark, 6-7 because they felt that he has to be judged on the fact he’s our highest paid player and that although everyone was decent because we won 6-0 he was at the bottom end of the team in terms of rating, certainly I’ve not heard many call him brilliant (only one person).

elkanofan wrote:Pundits don't like the fact no other team has comprehensively destroyed a West Ham team away from home like that a 8th place team in the league, no bottom relegation side since the 60's.

on a weekend all our rivals won well and we had a weak bench with mass injuries hitting the squad we completely demolish a tough mid table team we had issues and recent losses against before 6-0!

The media don't respect us, they can go f**k themselves. this team has a hanger I've been waiting for to win this thing! This team is built right now to suit everything you need at the highest level in the modern game. I still think we need another striker who is truly cold blooded killer asshole type next season to replace eddie but this team has that fire!


With all due respect this is not true, only a few weeks ago Fulham beat West Ham 5-0 so this isn’t the first time this season, yes it was away but it shows that West Ham have these performances in them and watching the match the lack of desire was there for all to see, pretty much everyone that reviewed the match on TV thought so, including Merson. After the first goal they were basically gone they encouraged us to come forward knowing they offered zero threat (they just lumped the ball forward giving it straight back to us everytime they got it back) and gave us so much space due to lack of application they were asking to be hammered.

Even after half time they didn’t come out with any kind of energy or show any pride which is also why West Ham fans started streaming away.

Now don’t get me wrong I think we’d have beaten them regardless but certainly not 6-0 if they’d showed more desire and effort, to get results like these you either need to play a team many levels below you or for the other team not to apply themselves, otherwise freak results like this don’t happen.

Wasn’t it Sheff Utd who got battered by Newcastle and while Newcastle were excellent Sheff Utd just didn’t turn up or put enough effort in (but they’re also not a very good side whilst West Ham are significantly better).
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby Ach » Tue Feb 13, 2024 11:35 pm

Arsenal are losing patience with Germany midfielder Kai Havertz and are considering selling the 24-year-old this summer. (Fichajes - in Spanish) 


:rofll: :rofll: :rofll:

Doubt it's reliable but if true, would be awesome
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby Nuggets » Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:19 am

Ach wrote:
Arsenal are losing patience with Germany midfielder Kai Havertz and are considering selling the 24-year-old this summer. (Fichajes - in Spanish) 


:rofll: :rofll: :rofll:

Doubt it's reliable but if true, would be awesome


We wouldn't get much for him though. :)
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby Salibatelli » Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:57 am

Nuggets wrote:
Ach wrote:
Arsenal are losing patience with Germany midfielder Kai Havertz and are considering selling the 24-year-old this summer. (Fichajes - in Spanish) 


:rofll: :rofll: :rofll:

Doubt it's reliable but if true, would be awesome


We wouldn't get much for him though. :)


No true but at least we may be able to get his salary off the wage bill, though I don’t think anyone will pay him anywhere near that so we may need to subsidise his salary for the next 4 years :lol:
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby 22-0 » Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:03 pm

Pretty obvious hes gonna end up going back to germany at some point.. thats his level.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby Salibatelli » Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:36 pm

22-0 wrote:Pretty obvious hes gonna end up going back to germany at some point.. thats his level.


Yup not cut out or good enough for the PL, should have gone back there in the summer but no one out in a serious bid except us.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:17 pm

22-0 wrote:Pretty obvious hes gonna end up going back to germany at some point.. thats his level.


At what point though? He's on Ozil money more or less, and putting in the same level of effort with 0% of the talent.

Timo Werner f'd off, but he works 10x as hard and acts like he has something to prove. Seen none of that with KH, even in these games where we're absolutely crushing the opposition.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby UFGN » Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:21 pm

Salibatelli wrote:
22-0 wrote:Pretty obvious hes gonna end up going back to germany at some point.. thats his level.


Yup not cut out or good enough for the PL, should have gone back there in the summer but no one out in a serious bid except us.


The problem is his over inflated wages, status and transfer fee

In normal circumstances a player like him would be quietly sold to Everton for £25M, everyone would be satisfied and noone would give him a second thought
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby 22-0 » Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:39 pm

UFGN wrote:
Salibatelli wrote:
22-0 wrote:Pretty obvious hes gonna end up going back to germany at some point.. thats his level.


Yup not cut out or good enough for the PL, should have gone back there in the summer but no one out in a serious bid except us.


The problem is his over inflated wages, status and transfer fee

In normal circumstances a player like him would be quietly sold to Everton for £25M, everyone would be satisfied and noone would give him a second thought



Arteta and edu can fork over their wages to cover the costs :think:
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby UFGN » Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:51 pm

22-0 wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Salibatelli wrote:
22-0 wrote:Pretty obvious hes gonna end up going back to germany at some point.. thats his level.


Yup not cut out or good enough for the PL, should have gone back there in the summer but no one out in a serious bid except us.


The problem is his over inflated wages, status and transfer fee

In normal circumstances a player like him would be quietly sold to Everton for £25M, everyone would be satisfied and noone would give him a second thought



Arteta and edu can fork over their wages to cover the costs :think:


Well it's their fault he's here

If post office managers were made to pay back money they weren't responsible for losing, why shouldn't those two cover costs they actually are responsible for?
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby swipe right » Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:40 pm

Ach wrote:
Arsenal are losing patience with Germany midfielder Kai Havertz and are considering selling the 24-year-old this summer. (Fichajes - in Spanish) 


:rofll: :rofll: :rofll:

Doubt it's reliable but if true, would be awesome

Buyers must be lining up.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby Salibatelli » Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:04 pm

UFGN wrote:
Salibatelli wrote:
22-0 wrote:Pretty obvious hes gonna end up going back to germany at some point.. thats his level.


Yup not cut out or good enough for the PL, should have gone back there in the summer but no one out in a serious bid except us.


The problem is his over inflated wages, status and transfer fee

In normal circumstances a player like him would be quietly sold to Everton for £25M, everyone would be satisfied and noone would give him a second thought


Yes totally, you have to ask what would possessed us to pay those kind of wages, the transfer fee we could write off, we’ve done it enough times without a second thought, but the guy isn’t going to want to take a massive pay cut.

You could freeze him out and see if that does the trick, we’d have to subsidise his wages but at least we may be able to get rid.

Failing that I think they are short of giraffes in some German zoo’s.
Last edited by Salibatelli on Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby theHotHead » Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:49 pm

UFGN wrote:
Salibatelli wrote:
22-0 wrote:Pretty obvious hes gonna end up going back to germany at some point.. thats his level.


Yup not cut out or good enough for the PL, should have gone back there in the summer but no one out in a serious bid except us.


The problem is his over inflated wages, status and transfer fee

In normal circumstances a player like him would be quietly sold to Everton for £25M, everyone would be satisfied and noone would give him a second thought

In other words, everything is wrong lol
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Re: Kai Havertz (29)

Postby theHotHead » Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:51 pm

At the next AGM Arteta should be asked to explain the Havertz purchase, he should be made to explain/justify it in some detail
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