2022 Summer Transfer Window

Arsenal news and interviews
Discuss anything Arsenal related, players, tactics etc.

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby Power n Glory » Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:29 pm

starmandb wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
starmandb wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
starmandb wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
starmandb wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
starmandb wrote:
22-0 wrote:Not to mention over playing our youngsters hurts them in the long run.. to much pressure and will end up with long term injuries.

Same thing happened to a lot of the barca youngsters when they tried to rebuild doing the same thing.

Arsenal players appearances at 23 followed by total appearances for the club
Here is just a sample
O’Leary 308… 722
Adams 235…. 672
Armstrong 239…. 621
Rice 170…. 525
Storey 180…. 506
Simpson 142….. 478
Davis 201……445
Rix 231….. 449
Parlour 199….. 442
Merson 188….. 415
Vieira 172…. 400
Good enough
Old enough

Football then is NOTHING LIKE football now.

You could get away with eating shit food, getting drunk and being totally unprofessional, you cannot now. Footballers are finely tuned athletes

The game is faster now, the ball is in play for longer too.

And you got kicked a lot more and teams used far fewer players throughout the season and there was 1 sub. Parlour and Vieira played in the post diet era and add to those Walcott Ramsey and Henry who played a lot of games young and went on to play a lot of games for us and there are others


Ramsey and Walcott aren't the best examples. Both have missed a lot of football through injury and can't play a lot of minutes through a season. Theo's 33 and Ramsey is 31. Auba is 33 and so is Lewandowski. Benzema is 34. Ronaldo is 37? They'd be better examples to look at.

Walcott played 397 games for us
Ramsey 371
Touré 327
Ljungberg 324
The original post was about ours
Only interested in ours


But the point was about over playing young players hurts them in the long run and leads to injuries. Walcott and Ramsey haven't played a lot of football in their late 20s going into their 30s and their bodies are close to retirement age.

Ramsey played 72 games in two years in his late 20’s with us
Walcott played 76 in three


You can't just look at the numbers here at Arsenal. You may only care about what they have done here but if we he hope to see some of the kids grow to have long careers here, you have to look at our last crop of youth that played a lot and how things look today.

Ramsey was here for 11 years
Walcott 12
Decent length of a career


Ramsey had over 330 days out injured for us.
Walcott had over 670 days out injured for us.

These two aren't good examples. Each season they'd have a period of games where they'd be out injured and were quite injury prone. We'd often lose them for vital moments of the season.
User avatar
Power n Glory
Dennis Bergkamp
Dennis Bergkamp
 
Posts: 7780
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby VCC » Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:11 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
starmandb wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
starmandb wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
starmandb wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
starmandb wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
starmandb wrote:
22-0 wrote:Not to mention over playing our youngsters hurts them in the long run.. to much pressure and will end up with long term injuries.

Same thing happened to a lot of the barca youngsters when they tried to rebuild doing the same thing.

Arsenal players appearances at 23 followed by total appearances for the club
Here is just a sample
O’Leary 308… 722
Adams 235…. 672
Armstrong 239…. 621
Rice 170…. 525
Storey 180…. 506
Simpson 142….. 478
Davis 201……445
Rix 231….. 449
Parlour 199….. 442
Merson 188….. 415
Vieira 172…. 400
Good enough
Old enough

Football then is NOTHING LIKE football now.

You could get away with eating shit food, getting drunk and being totally unprofessional, you cannot now. Footballers are finely tuned athletes

The game is faster now, the ball is in play for longer too.

And you got kicked a lot more and teams used far fewer players throughout the season and there was 1 sub. Parlour and Vieira played in the post diet era and add to those Walcott Ramsey and Henry who played a lot of games young and went on to play a lot of games for us and there are others


Ramsey and Walcott aren't the best examples. Both have missed a lot of football through injury and can't play a lot of minutes through a season. Theo's 33 and Ramsey is 31. Auba is 33 and so is Lewandowski. Benzema is 34. Ronaldo is 37? They'd be better examples to look at.

Walcott played 397 games for us
Ramsey 371
Touré 327
Ljungberg 324
The original post was about ours
Only interested in ours


But the point was about over playing young players hurts them in the long run and leads to injuries. Walcott and Ramsey haven't played a lot of football in their late 20s going into their 30s and their bodies are close to retirement age.

Ramsey played 72 games in two years in his late 20’s with us
Walcott played 76 in three


You can't just look at the numbers here at Arsenal. You may only care about what they have done here but if we he hope to see some of the kids grow to have long careers here, you have to look at our last crop of youth that played a lot and how things look today.

Ramsey was here for 11 years
Walcott 12
Decent length of a career


Ramsey had over 330 days out injured for us.
Walcott had over 670 days out injured for us.

These two aren't good examples. Each season they'd have a period of games where they'd be out injured and were quite injury prone. We'd often lose them for vital moments of the season.

Glad you didnt mention Diaby he was not injury prone , he had his own category “full time injured”
User avatar
VCC
Herbert Chapman
Herbert Chapman
 
Posts: 11547
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:04 am

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby Hypergooner » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:39 am

^^^ The greatest player never to play the game
Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.

Sun Tzu


Image
User avatar
Hypergooner
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 2042
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby theHotHead » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:07 pm

Diaby ........ the bredda was made from glass.
User avatar
theHotHead
Arsène Wenger
Arsène Wenger
 
Posts: 15220
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby starmandb » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:26 pm

Injury’s are part and parcel of the game. Ramsey leg would have been broken weather he was a toddler or a pensioner. I gave another example of two players that started young at Arsenal and went on to have considerable careers … there are others
User avatar
starmandb
Member of the Year 2018, 2020
Member of the Year 2018, 2020
 
Posts: 13881
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:55 am

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:09 pm

starmandb wrote:Injury’s are part and parcel of the game. Ramsey leg would have been broken weather he was a toddler or a pensioner. I gave another example of two players that started young at Arsenal and went on to have considerable careers … there are others


Toure, Ljungberg and Henry weren't playing for Arsenal in their teen years. They arrived in their early 20s.

Theo was 17 when he made his Prem debut and I think he played over 5000 minutes before turning 20.

Ramsey, I believe was 18 when making his debut and had already played over 2000 minutes before that horrible injury. In fact, both players had major surgery before they turned 20 after taking a lot of kicks. None of the players you mention are good examples.

Not to mention over playing our youngsters hurts them in the long run.. to much pressure and will end up with long term injuries.

Same thing happened to a lot of the barca youngsters when they tried to rebuild doing the same thing.


Just referring back to the original comment, it's a complex subject that should be thought through. The original project youth kids took a kicking and were regularly kicked off the park with little protection. There was also a lot of discussion about Wenger's training methods and possibly overplaying the kids back then. I look around the league today and there isn't a single player from that Project Youth era still playing regular football at a high level. Or have I forgotten someone? But then I look at Auba, Messi, Ronaldo, Modric and Benzema who are still playing a lot of minutes. Ronaldo and Messi are the two stand out players who started in their teens, and of course, Ronaldo was a teen in the Premier League.

I don't know if we can simply correlate overplaying young players with injuries, but it's something that does cross my mind. Owen and Wilshere are cautionary tales. I know Arsenal players are here to serve the club but I would like to think we're a club that will look after our young players. If they leave, they should leave in good health, a top education and as highly rated players. You may only care about the current crop but they don't say 'Once a Gooner, always a Gooner' for nothing. Besides winning trophies, I would also like to see our club produce some of the best players in football that achieve the highest awards.
User avatar
Power n Glory
Dennis Bergkamp
Dennis Bergkamp
 
Posts: 7780
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby ag6789 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:12 pm

Most professional players start around 17-18yrs, and the ones w/ strong constitution have long successful careers , the fragile ones burn out and go into oblivion. No point in overthinking . True for most sports like tennis, cricket and others.
Regarding protection, again, the robust/smarter ones survive and are crafty enough to evade tackles or survive them, relatively poor/foolish ones fall prey to them.
Example Wilshere; he made same mistakes at 19, 23 and even at 26, getting too close to opponents while dribbling, and thereby injuring himself. Ox, ran madly towards opponent fullback( think it was Kyle Walker at Spuds, at that time)colliding with them and sitting out next 3 weeks injured( a frequent occurrence).
ag6789
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 2607
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby Hypergooner » Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:38 pm

Ornstein says we have agreed £45m for Jesus!
Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.

Sun Tzu


Image
User avatar
Hypergooner
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 2042
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:40 pm

Hypergooner wrote:Ornstein says we have agreed £45m for Jesus!


........ Fabrizio also, so yes, its done.

They're apparently discussing personal terms but that would of been agreed before this to make him choose us so its just a formality.

He's an Arsenal player.

No one else is going to offer him £220k pw, that I can tell you.
Image
User avatar
DiamondGooner
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 29502
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am
Location: At the Gucci store

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:07 pm

........ I will say.

If we land Raphina and Tielemans as well as Vieira and Jesus then that is a very good window.

Arteta and Edu doing well so far, two early signings of good level, a couple more and we'll be equipped to take on Spurs, Utd and Chelsea for 3rd / 4th.

Lets hope they get that couple more over the line.
Image
User avatar
DiamondGooner
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 29502
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am
Location: At the Gucci store

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby Hypergooner » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:32 pm

I can't see us getting Tielemans.
I think we'll get that Ajax LB if we sell Pepe and the other outcasts. I'd love to see Raphinha, but it think he may be too good for us at the mo. He will want a CL club
Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.

Sun Tzu


Image
User avatar
Hypergooner
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 2042
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby ag6789 » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:40 pm

After a slow start Edu &Co seem to be hitting their targets. Will they be enough? Time will tell. Looks like they have given up on a classic CF, so Jesus will be another potent goal option besides the ones we already have ( Saka, Mert, ESR....). Midfield wise, Vieira seems to have potential albeit little skinny to my liking.
Probably other more matured option like Melo, Savic are unattainable ( Italian clubs generally play hardball w/ PL clubs), hence go w/ the Portuguese prospect.
If they can rope in Raphina, Tielemans, great ( hope it doesn't eat into too much of ESR, Mertinell 's pie), otherwise will be happy w/ at least one more quality full back.
I hope to see more of the academy prospects Patino and Azeez. Wish one of them at least have a breakout season.
ag6789
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 2607
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby starmandb » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:50 pm

ag6789 wrote:Most professional players start around 17-18yrs, and the ones w/ strong constitution have long successful careers , the fragile ones burn out and go into oblivion. No point in overthinking . True for most sports like tennis, cricket and others.
Regarding protection, again, the robust/smarter ones survive and are crafty enough to evade tackles or survive them, relatively poor/foolish ones fall prey to them.
Example Wilshere; he made same mistakes at 19, 23 and even at 26, getting too close to opponents while dribbling, and thereby injuring himself. Ox, ran madly towards opponent fullback( think it was Kyle Walker at Spuds, at that time)colliding with them and sitting out next 3 weeks injured( a frequent occurrence).

This is what I agree with
I have a great respect and affection for all that have worn the shirt
But they are very well paid professionals in a competitive sport
The club have a duty of care which I believe they maintain
Many were moaning about how we had looked after rvp only for him to leave
Not me
Said it many times
I love Arsenal to my very core but were i player I would do whatever was best for my career
The job of the club is to make that Arsenal
User avatar
starmandb
Member of the Year 2018, 2020
Member of the Year 2018, 2020
 
Posts: 13881
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:55 am

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby starmandb » Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:55 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
starmandb wrote:Injury’s are part and parcel of the game. Ramsey leg would have been broken weather he was a toddler or a pensioner. I gave another example of two players that started young at Arsenal and went on to have considerable careers … there are others


Toure, Ljungberg and Henry weren't playing for Arsenal in their teen years. They arrived in their early 20s.

Theo was 17 when he made his Prem debut and I think he played over 5000 minutes before turning 20.

Ramsey, I believe was 18 when making his debut and had already played over 2000 minutes before that horrible injury. In fact, both players had major surgery before they turned 20 after taking a lot of kicks. None of the players you mention are good examples.

Not to mention over playing our youngsters hurts them in the long run.. to much pressure and will end up with long term injuries.

Same thing happened to a lot of the barca youngsters when they tried to rebuild doing the same thing.


Just referring back to the original comment, it's a complex subject that should be thought through. The original project youth kids took a kicking and were regularly kicked off the park with little protection. There was also a lot of discussion about Wenger's training methods and possibly overplaying the kids back then. I look around the league today and there isn't a single player from that Project Youth era still playing regular football at a high level. Or have I forgotten someone? But then I look at Auba, Messi, Ronaldo, Modric and Benzema who are still playing a lot of minutes. Ronaldo and Messi are the two stand out players who started in their teens, and of course, Ronaldo was a teen in the Premier League.

I don't know if we can simply correlate overplaying young players with injuries, but it's something that does cross my mind. Owen and Wilshere are cautionary tales. I know Arsenal players are here to serve the club but I would like to think we're a club that will look after our young players. If they leave, they should leave in good health, a top education and as highly rated players. You may only care about the current crop but they don't say 'Once a Gooner, always a Gooner' for nothing. Besides winning trophies, I would also like to see our club produce some of the best players in football that achieve the highest awards.

Teenagers….
Fabregas clichy
User avatar
starmandb
Member of the Year 2018, 2020
Member of the Year 2018, 2020
 
Posts: 13881
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:55 am

Re: 2022 Summer Transfer Window

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:07 pm

ag6789 wrote:After a slow start Edu &Co seem to be hitting their targets. Will they be enough? Time will tell. Looks like they have given up on a classic CF, so Jesus will be another potent goal option besides the ones we already have ( Saka, Mert, ESR....). Midfield wise, Vieira seems to have potential albeit little skinny to my liking.
Probably other more matured option like Melo, Savic are unattainable ( Italian clubs generally play hardball w/ PL clubs), hence go w/ the Portuguese prospect.
If they can rope in Raphina, Tielemans, great ( hope it doesn't eat into too much of ESR, Mertinell 's pie), otherwise will be happy w/ at least one more quality full back.
I hope to see more of the academy prospects Patino and Azeez. Wish one of them at least have a breakout season.


Kind of but they kept Nketiah who is a box CF so ..........

I think Arteta is a fan of working with Jesus and has used that to sign a player of his calibre so regardless of role, we couldn't say no.

My only concern is if we try to fit him up as a CF he'll perform like Auba did ........ however we have options, put him wide or change formation to one that gives us a front 3 and then that should alleviate any issues.

The only time I'm going to get narkey is if we force Jesus into that lone CF role and he can't manage it simply because he's not a box CF, that means Arteta didn't learn from Auba which would be a big concern .......... but he's a quality player so I'm hoping we'll work it out one way or another.
Image
User avatar
DiamondGooner
SE13
SE13
 
Posts: 29502
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:35 am
Location: At the Gucci store

PreviousNext

Return to Arsenal Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], theHotHead and 3 guests