Arteta Out

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Re: Arteta Out

Postby UFGN » Sat May 28, 2022 3:32 pm

We're not getting two stickers if Nk is staying
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby firfi » Sat May 28, 2022 3:34 pm

Gooners wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Gooners wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
ag6789 wrote:I don't think the current system Arteta is following is very different from Wenger's. He doesn't have the midfield that Wenger mostly had, but a striker in good form should be able to capitalize on the chances even this mediocre midfield had created. Unai had far worse midfield production , Auba was a live wire then and lightening fast. So it seems what he was at 28 had diminished at 32-33 and PL being bit faster paced, he was found wanting. As Wenger used to say never give a contract to a striker at 30+. He had some insights there, the old man! That's why when age catches up people move to slower leagues, like US, or middle east, China etc. Reaction time for a striker is the key.


It's very different from Wenger's system. It's not just about player quality and formations. Under Wenger the players were free to move and interchange positions.

For example, both fullbacks would have licence to get forward and overlap under Wenger. Even the more defensive minded ones like Sagna. Under Arteta both are pretty restrained and the one that tends to attack more isn't as free.

Under Wenger, we had Ramsey who was free to bomb as far forward as the strikers, Sanchez was able to go wide, drop deep or play on the inside. Theo would often have the freedom to stay forward and focus in making runs between the fullback and centreback.

Wenger would often play to the individual players strengths. Hence why a limited player like Theo could score and assist so many. Under Arteta, Theo would have died. There is no way he'd have been able to cope with hugging the touchline from deep and needing to take on a 3 or 4 players with little support from the other midfielders or forwards. That's Saka and Martinelli have often beem tasked with doing.

In general, the players are more isolated under Arteta. They're not able to move freely to close down distances and play one twos. That tippy tappy style is dead. We don't pass the ball as quickly, you don't see as many of the one twos or flicks and we can't do the one touch passing with ease anymore. We struggle. We play a totally different game and even when you hear the players talk about Arteta having specific intrusions and adhering to his plan for specific teams, the shouting from the touchline, that is the opposite of Wenger's philosophy. Wenger would never shout or try to micromanage from the touchline because he didn't believe it was effective. He believed players have to be able to naturally find their way out of tight situations. It's why he'd often set up 5 aside games in training so the players would develop a natural habit to work out of tight spaces.

And that kind of wenger nonchalance / attitude got found out in the always evolving EPL and football in general. Hence why he started struggling as a manager in his latter years.
That’s why we become proper weeping boys against the other Top teams in England and Europe, constantly being humiliated (6-3, 5-1, 6-1, 5-2 etc scorelines)..
Most of the Top managers in Euorpe were always praying to get Arsenal in these knockout competitions. We were labelled as the softest team to play against.

Whenever we got to the quarter finals of the Champions league, the other Top clubs fans would all be to get Arsenal in these draws. In the domestic cup finals against Arsenal the other Top clubs always felt so confident of winning. It had become so humbling that no one took us seriously anymore..


True, Wenger's style had it's own set of problems but the point was to highlight the contrasting styles of management. It's night and day to me.

In terms of results and effectiveness....'weeping boys', being a soft touch, losing to the top teams....can you honestly say that's not the case today with a different style of management? Perception is everything. The only time a Wenger team conceded as many/more goals as we have this season, was the year we sold Fabregas and got battered 8-2 to Utd. The other time was when Wenger got the sack.

The nonchalant attitude from Wenger would drive me mental but I understand it more today. I really don't like how robotic, static and unimaginative we can look under Arteta. Especially if we haven't progressed. Hopefully, we will see better results next season that's not the case today.


Wenger wasn't perfect but Wengerball was better to watch. It was more expansive and set up for goals. It cost us at times, but I didn't go in to games against newly promoted sides, wondering where the goals might come from.
I used to feel sorry for promoted teams playing us in their first game. They hadn't seen passing and technical ability like ours in the Championship and they usually fell apart!

If Wengerball was classical music and Kloppball is heavy metal, Artetaball is more break-beat. It gets boring quick but sometimes makes you bob your head.

I loved wengers football until the Fabregas era in 2010. It was very beautiful, entertaining and Mesmerising 90% of the time. I loved it. That’s why just finishing 4th did not bother me back then, the football was something else. But once the Cesc era ended in 2010, our football had become dire, mechanical, boring, no set style, dependent on any given individual having a breakout season (Rvp / Song, Santi, Ramsey, Sanchez, Ozil, etc). Each season after the Cesc era we became a one man team. I found the football so boring I never enjoyed it.. It was so disjointed, mechanical, boring and filled with humiliating scorelines for us..

I never enjoyed wengers football from 2011 to 2017 when he got sacked. There were some good games littered here and there but overall I never sat there mesmerised like I used to before 2010. I would say that individual performances were the noticeable occurrence, but when it came to the team as a whole it was bad and disjonted.

And I also think Arteta’s football is boring and not entertaining at the moment. It’s no different to the football we played under wenger between 2011-17, the difference is that Arteta is trying to stop those humiliating scorelines against the Top teams. He is trying to install a more professional, disciplined, serious and united dressing room.. I was so tired of the nonchalant, indisciplined, unprofessional and chaotic environment that wenger had facilitated for so long..

That’s my own personal opinion of course. That’s how I saw things..

Im probably the biggest Wenger supporter out there and im gonna say with that in mind thats not true at all.
We have never played under Wenger vs teams that are mid table or below and getting spanked like we do under Arteta never and the game sample is really big.
We had frustrating losses i remember one opening game vs Villa we lost 3-0 where Wenger made his typical mistake at the start of the season not preparing for the game and the players we're not fit enough to play etc , but as a whole we never bottled like we do now.We're getting completely destroyed by teams like Brighton , Palace ,Everton etc where we cant get past the midfield for the whole match which is way worse than losing 6-1 to City ,but at the same time playing good football on the whole.
Wenger had his flaws ofc he was really stuborn could've gotten few world class players and now we could be holding in the inventory few more PLs.
I remember him not buying Suarez and not chasing Liverpool cause it was the classy thing to do.He wanted to come to Arsenal we we're the bigger club at that point and he was that one player that just came out as the best player in the league and u can't find many players on the whole with seasons like that on the market for relatively cheap.He had the worst transfer policy and he wasn't the guy to bring us there with that policy.
On the other hand to say Arteta has improved us vs top teams is a joke.People really like to forget how we lost 3-0 3-0 to City and Chelsea and write it off we had few players missing etc and then losing to Liverpool 4-0.
Games in which we had no chances created nothing we we're ghosts ,but lets forget about those games the games vs lesser teams where we cant make 1 attack whole match makes me puke.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby firfi » Sat May 28, 2022 3:41 pm

Hypergooner wrote:Things could change with 2 strikers and a CM, for next season. If not he probably should get the boot!

Would the next manager have to rebuild all over again though? Is the current squad good enough for more attacking football?


No idea why everyone is so fixated on getting 2 strikers but 1 midfielder.If we create enough we'll score the goals ,but we cant get past the press thats why we have 13 losses ,because our midfield is the biggest garbage ever.Besides Partey whos injured mostly(I blame arteta for the latest injury)we have no other midfielders.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby elkanofan » Sat May 28, 2022 5:30 pm

firfi wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:Things could change with 2 strikers and a CM, for next season. If not he probably should get the boot!

Would the next manager have to rebuild all over again though? Is the current squad good enough for more attacking football?


No idea why everyone is so fixated on getting 2 strikers but 1 midfielder.If we create enough we'll score the goals ,but we cant get past the press thats why we have 13 losses ,because our midfield is the biggest garbage ever.Besides Partey whos injured mostly(I blame arteta for the latest injury)we have no other midfielders.


We need one starter over Xhaka so we need a top midfielder, underneath that we have talent on our books we can develop I feel. ESR could be playing his favored attacking mid role in rotation. Xhaka and Elneny as backup is fine if we do buy a real top class midfielder like Neves. Lokonga isn't shit, he's just nowhere near the level yet to make an impact week to week, There's even youngsters like Azeez and Patino who can fill in also.


Odegaard

Neves - Partey


is a very good midfield 3, We could do with another Santi type midfielder but I think one big midfield signing is fine is squad quality.

Whoever we have in midfield Arteta wont get the best out of them because he isn't good enough to do so.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Losmeister » Sat May 28, 2022 6:28 pm


is a very good midfield 3, We could do with another Santi type midfielder but I think one big midfield signing is fine is squad quality.

Whoever we have in midfield Arteta wont get the best out of them because he isn't good enough to do so.


what exacty did wenger do t getthe best of his midfielders? besides identifying that they were good. we just need more talent and less xhaka/el neny midtable bs.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Losmeister » Sat May 28, 2022 6:30 pm

"We're getting completely destroyed by teams like Brighton , Palace ,Everton etc where we cant get past the midfield for the whole match which is way worse than losing 6-1 to City ,but at the same time playing good football on the whole."

nonsensical drivel. losing close painful to mediocre teams is worse than getting a 6-1 ass whhoping?
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Hypergooner » Sat May 28, 2022 7:20 pm

Losmeister wrote:

is a very good midfield 3, We could do with another Santi type midfielder but I think one big midfield signing is fine is squad quality.

Whoever we have in midfield Arteta wont get the best out of them because he isn't good enough to do so.


what exacty did wenger do t getthe best of his midfielders? besides identifying that they were good. we just need more talent and less xhaka/el neny midtable bs.


Wenger had a Fabregas for years that could drop a ball on a six pence! He also set up to play wider, attacking football at the cost of defensive stability. His philosophy was attack is the best defence.
Arteta is more pragmatic. The best player we could buy would be Declan Rice! He is an old schools box to box CM. Not many like him about
Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.

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Re: Arteta Out

Postby elkanofan » Sat May 28, 2022 7:37 pm

Losmeister wrote:

is a very good midfield 3, We could do with another Santi type midfielder but I think one big midfield signing is fine is squad quality.

Whoever we have in midfield Arteta wont get the best out of them because he isn't good enough to do so.


what exacty did wenger do t getthe best of his midfielders? besides identifying that they were good. we just need more talent and less xhaka/el neny midtable bs.


I agree Xhaka & Elneny should not be starters for our club, however having players who have been with us for 6-7 years as backup under a better manager is better than buying players simply to sit on the bench for the 4 players i mentioned in ESR, Odegaard, Partey and hopefully someone like Neves.

Wenger in terms of coaching ability is lightyears ahead of Arteta is creating an attacking gameplan and clear philosophy in how to pass and move in attack. Which its was very free form based compared to anything we have seen since he left with Emery, Freddie and Arteta. Wenger built his first 11 and formation around players who could create and score and have the quality to win with pass and move wengerball against whatever opponent. Defending sadly as we experienced was very much an afterthought for Wenger especially after the end of the invincible who followed on from our great back 4 and 5 built under Graham.

Arteta has this obsession with his 4-2-3-1 or even 4-3-3 variation for our wide players to stay really far out wide and crossing is our first method to score which so many teams worked out and managed to counter us on with ease. Arteta wont work with the players like Wenger did to pass and move to create chances through the middle with an emphasis of moving opposition defences around to create space to score in a variety of ways. Wenger's team would bully the likes of Brighton, Palace, Burnley at home through slick passing opposition teams i mentioned can't work out with clarity unlike Arteta's amatuer like stubborn rigidity.

Give Wenger this same team and we would have easily made top 3 despite that guys huge flaws defensively.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Salibatelli » Sat May 28, 2022 8:16 pm

I wanted Wenger out, but he was lightyears ahead of Arteta.

The problem was his obsession with playing like Barcelona and his stubborness, he just refused to buy what we needed and always thought he knew best.

His reluctance to sign proven players was another problem, he always wanted to find the next best thing.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby UFGN » Sat May 28, 2022 8:36 pm

Salibatelli wrote:I wanted Wenger out, but he was lightyears ahead of Arteta.

The problem was his obsession with playing like Barcelona and his stubborness, he just refused to buy what we needed and always thought he knew best.

His reluctance to sign proven players was another problem, he always wanted to find the next best thing.


If he was light years ahead of Arteta it would have showed in the league. He was sacked for a reason. He was shit.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby elkanofan » Sat May 28, 2022 9:54 pm

Wenger was shit towards the end especially but as i pointed out. We still at least murdered teams like Burnley at home with good attacking football, we were 6th and semi finals of EL.

Arteta 5th with no europe and a piss poor year of rivals around him. Beaten to 4th by Spurs who changed their manager this season?

Wenger is lightyears ahead in terms of abillity even at his dog worst. Arteta will do nothing next season, it's a question of when he's sacked and hopefully we don't wait to pull the trigger.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Losmeister » Sat May 28, 2022 10:03 pm

"Wenger in terms of coaching ability is lightyears ahead of Arteta is creating an attacking gameplan and clear philosophy in how to pass and move in attack."

gotcha
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Salibatelli » Sat May 28, 2022 11:07 pm

UFGN wrote:
Salibatelli wrote:I wanted Wenger out, but he was lightyears ahead of Arteta.

The problem was his obsession with playing like Barcelona and his stubborness, he just refused to buy what we needed and always thought he knew best.

His reluctance to sign proven players was another problem, he always wanted to find the next best thing.


If he was light years ahead of Arteta it would have showed in the league. He was sacked for a reason. He was shit.


I wanted him sacked, but I’ve also wanted Arteta sacked, Wenger wasn’t good enough but was better than Arteta if your aim is 4th.

Arteta got 5th in the weakest season in years.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Losmeister » Sun May 29, 2022 12:39 am

i thik Arteta out has legit reasons..

but there is no light at the end of this tunnel.

who tf is gonna take over and what WC players WANT TO COME to Arsenal?
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Sun May 29, 2022 12:52 am

Losmeister wrote:i thik Arteta out has legit reasons..

but there is no light at the end of this tunnel.

who tf is gonna take over and what WC players WANT TO COME to Arsenal?


Wouldn't have thought that Conte would have agreed to take over a shambolic Europa-level team mideaseason either, but here we are.
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