by UFGN » Sat May 28, 2022 3:32 pm
by firfi » Sat May 28, 2022 3:34 pm
Gooners wrote:Hypergooner wrote:Power n Glory wrote:Gooners wrote:Power n Glory wrote:ag6789 wrote:I don't think the current system Arteta is following is very different from Wenger's. He doesn't have the midfield that Wenger mostly had, but a striker in good form should be able to capitalize on the chances even this mediocre midfield had created. Unai had far worse midfield production , Auba was a live wire then and lightening fast. So it seems what he was at 28 had diminished at 32-33 and PL being bit faster paced, he was found wanting. As Wenger used to say never give a contract to a striker at 30+. He had some insights there, the old man! That's why when age catches up people move to slower leagues, like US, or middle east, China etc. Reaction time for a striker is the key.
It's very different from Wenger's system. It's not just about player quality and formations. Under Wenger the players were free to move and interchange positions.
For example, both fullbacks would have licence to get forward and overlap under Wenger. Even the more defensive minded ones like Sagna. Under Arteta both are pretty restrained and the one that tends to attack more isn't as free.
Under Wenger, we had Ramsey who was free to bomb as far forward as the strikers, Sanchez was able to go wide, drop deep or play on the inside. Theo would often have the freedom to stay forward and focus in making runs between the fullback and centreback.
Wenger would often play to the individual players strengths. Hence why a limited player like Theo could score and assist so many. Under Arteta, Theo would have died. There is no way he'd have been able to cope with hugging the touchline from deep and needing to take on a 3 or 4 players with little support from the other midfielders or forwards. That's Saka and Martinelli have often beem tasked with doing.
In general, the players are more isolated under Arteta. They're not able to move freely to close down distances and play one twos. That tippy tappy style is dead. We don't pass the ball as quickly, you don't see as many of the one twos or flicks and we can't do the one touch passing with ease anymore. We struggle. We play a totally different game and even when you hear the players talk about Arteta having specific intrusions and adhering to his plan for specific teams, the shouting from the touchline, that is the opposite of Wenger's philosophy. Wenger would never shout or try to micromanage from the touchline because he didn't believe it was effective. He believed players have to be able to naturally find their way out of tight situations. It's why he'd often set up 5 aside games in training so the players would develop a natural habit to work out of tight spaces.
And that kind of wenger nonchalance / attitude got found out in the always evolving EPL and football in general. Hence why he started struggling as a manager in his latter years.
That’s why we become proper weeping boys against the other Top teams in England and Europe, constantly being humiliated (6-3, 5-1, 6-1, 5-2 etc scorelines)..
Most of the Top managers in Euorpe were always praying to get Arsenal in these knockout competitions. We were labelled as the softest team to play against.
Whenever we got to the quarter finals of the Champions league, the other Top clubs fans would all be to get Arsenal in these draws. In the domestic cup finals against Arsenal the other Top clubs always felt so confident of winning. It had become so humbling that no one took us seriously anymore..
True, Wenger's style had it's own set of problems but the point was to highlight the contrasting styles of management. It's night and day to me.
In terms of results and effectiveness....'weeping boys', being a soft touch, losing to the top teams....can you honestly say that's not the case today with a different style of management? Perception is everything. The only time a Wenger team conceded as many/more goals as we have this season, was the year we sold Fabregas and got battered 8-2 to Utd. The other time was when Wenger got the sack.
The nonchalant attitude from Wenger would drive me mental but I understand it more today. I really don't like how robotic, static and unimaginative we can look under Arteta. Especially if we haven't progressed. Hopefully, we will see better results next season that's not the case today.
Wenger wasn't perfect but Wengerball was better to watch. It was more expansive and set up for goals. It cost us at times, but I didn't go in to games against newly promoted sides, wondering where the goals might come from.
I used to feel sorry for promoted teams playing us in their first game. They hadn't seen passing and technical ability like ours in the Championship and they usually fell apart!
If Wengerball was classical music and Kloppball is heavy metal, Artetaball is more break-beat. It gets boring quick but sometimes makes you bob your head.
I loved wengers football until the Fabregas era in 2010. It was very beautiful, entertaining and Mesmerising 90% of the time. I loved it. That’s why just finishing 4th did not bother me back then, the football was something else. But once the Cesc era ended in 2010, our football had become dire, mechanical, boring, no set style, dependent on any given individual having a breakout season (Rvp / Song, Santi, Ramsey, Sanchez, Ozil, etc). Each season after the Cesc era we became a one man team. I found the football so boring I never enjoyed it.. It was so disjointed, mechanical, boring and filled with humiliating scorelines for us..
I never enjoyed wengers football from 2011 to 2017 when he got sacked. There were some good games littered here and there but overall I never sat there mesmerised like I used to before 2010. I would say that individual performances were the noticeable occurrence, but when it came to the team as a whole it was bad and disjonted.
And I also think Arteta’s football is boring and not entertaining at the moment. It’s no different to the football we played under wenger between 2011-17, the difference is that Arteta is trying to stop those humiliating scorelines against the Top teams. He is trying to install a more professional, disciplined, serious and united dressing room.. I was so tired of the nonchalant, indisciplined, unprofessional and chaotic environment that wenger had facilitated for so long..
That’s my own personal opinion of course. That’s how I saw things..
by firfi » Sat May 28, 2022 3:41 pm
Hypergooner wrote:Things could change with 2 strikers and a CM, for next season. If not he probably should get the boot!
Would the next manager have to rebuild all over again though? Is the current squad good enough for more attacking football?
by elkanofan » Sat May 28, 2022 5:30 pm
firfi wrote:Hypergooner wrote:Things could change with 2 strikers and a CM, for next season. If not he probably should get the boot!
Would the next manager have to rebuild all over again though? Is the current squad good enough for more attacking football?
No idea why everyone is so fixated on getting 2 strikers but 1 midfielder.If we create enough we'll score the goals ,but we cant get past the press thats why we have 13 losses ,because our midfield is the biggest garbage ever.Besides Partey whos injured mostly(I blame arteta for the latest injury)we have no other midfielders.
by Losmeister » Sat May 28, 2022 6:28 pm
is a very good midfield 3, We could do with another Santi type midfielder but I think one big midfield signing is fine is squad quality.
Whoever we have in midfield Arteta wont get the best out of them because he isn't good enough to do so.
by Losmeister » Sat May 28, 2022 6:30 pm
by Hypergooner » Sat May 28, 2022 7:20 pm
Losmeister wrote:
is a very good midfield 3, We could do with another Santi type midfielder but I think one big midfield signing is fine is squad quality.
Whoever we have in midfield Arteta wont get the best out of them because he isn't good enough to do so.
what exacty did wenger do t getthe best of his midfielders? besides identifying that they were good. we just need more talent and less xhaka/el neny midtable bs.
by elkanofan » Sat May 28, 2022 7:37 pm
Losmeister wrote:
is a very good midfield 3, We could do with another Santi type midfielder but I think one big midfield signing is fine is squad quality.
Whoever we have in midfield Arteta wont get the best out of them because he isn't good enough to do so.
what exacty did wenger do t getthe best of his midfielders? besides identifying that they were good. we just need more talent and less xhaka/el neny midtable bs.
by Salibatelli » Sat May 28, 2022 8:16 pm
by UFGN » Sat May 28, 2022 8:36 pm
Salibatelli wrote:I wanted Wenger out, but he was lightyears ahead of Arteta.
The problem was his obsession with playing like Barcelona and his stubborness, he just refused to buy what we needed and always thought he knew best.
His reluctance to sign proven players was another problem, he always wanted to find the next best thing.
by elkanofan » Sat May 28, 2022 9:54 pm
by Losmeister » Sat May 28, 2022 10:03 pm
by Salibatelli » Sat May 28, 2022 11:07 pm
UFGN wrote:Salibatelli wrote:I wanted Wenger out, but he was lightyears ahead of Arteta.
The problem was his obsession with playing like Barcelona and his stubborness, he just refused to buy what we needed and always thought he knew best.
His reluctance to sign proven players was another problem, he always wanted to find the next best thing.
If he was light years ahead of Arteta it would have showed in the league. He was sacked for a reason. He was shit.
by Losmeister » Sun May 29, 2022 12:39 am
by Highbury Hillbilly » Sun May 29, 2022 12:52 am
Losmeister wrote:i thik Arteta out has legit reasons..
but there is no light at the end of this tunnel.
who tf is gonna take over and what WC players WANT TO COME to Arsenal?