Arteta Out

[Angelito]

Keown said on TalkSport the other day, Wenger didn't like confrontation. When he arrived, the squad he had did all that for him. As players left, the mentality slowly left with them.

Arteta, Pep, Conte, SAF, and Mourinho don't/didn't like confrontations too. So?

I adore Keown (and Dixon) but those guys haven't a clue what they're talking about as far as management goes.

No top manager likes confrontations if they don't deem it sensible enough. Pep is renowned for this—Eto'o (who helped him win the treble) and Ibrahimovic (who Pep signed). He dropped them as soon as they started becoming problematic. Pep did the same with Hart and Yaya. He chucked Joe Hart out for not following his instructions. He banished Yaya to the stands as Yaya was too confrontational/egotistical.

Other top managers like SAF, Conte, Mourinho, etc., have shunned confrontational players as well. SAF ditched Keane once he started becoming a overbearing personality. We all know about the hair-dryer treatment of Beckham.

Hot-takes sell. That's what talkSport specializes in. Has Keown slammed Arteta for Arsenal's current state? KSE? Has he been as vocal? If he has, I haven't seen it. That should tell you everything. Of course, Keown thinks that they did everything and Wenger sat there cowering the the corner.

It's all hip to shit on Wenger but the only reason why we're even talking about Wenger is because there's nothing to talk about in these post-Wenger years.

People can criticize Wenger for valid reasons. Not winning the UCL with the Invincibles, not winning the League in 15/16, even 11/12. But these stupid mentality talks need to stop.

ManU, Chelsea, and City didn't win League titles on sheer mentality. It's as if they weren't the big spenders that they were. Their iron-clad mentality alone yielded.

Someday, sooner rather than later, you guys have to realize that we were never big spenders. We haven't been the most successful club in England since the early 70s.

Using every stick to beat on Wenger is all cool. But it wouldn't ensure success under the Kroenkes. It's all easy to chat shit and get paid. It's all too difficult to call out the existing "regime." For reasons obvious.

The only thing that's remain consistent, over the years, is slamming Wenger. Whether it was when he was manager or now, when he's no longer one.

Anyone with a pea-sized brain can gauge, why.

Longer the slating of Wenger, more concrete the realization of failure under this existing administration.

AFTV, a media outlet that was so vocal during Wenger's final years, now have a seat in Arsenal press conferences. Most of us know what's going on at Arsenal.

Nearly £500m spent since Wenger, and here we are blaming Wenger, celebrating EL qualification.

After Wenger, I never expected Arsenal fans to conjure their own mental gymnastics. But here we are.

Sad, sad.

[Arsenal Tone]

Keown said on TalkSport the other day, Wenger didn't like confrontation. When he arrived, the squad he had did all that for him. As players left, the mentality slowly left with them.

Arteta, Pep, Conte, SAF, and Mourinho don't/didn't like confrontations too. So?

I adore Keown (and Dixon) but those guys haven't a clue what they're talking about as far as management goes.

No top manager likes confrontations if they don't deem it sensible enough. Pep is renowned for this—Eto'o (who helped him win the treble) and Ibrahimovic (who Pep signed). He dropped them as soon as they started becoming problematic. Pep did the same with Hart and Yaya. He chucked Joe Hart out for not following his instructions. He banished Yaya to the stands as Yaya was too confrontational/egotistical.

Other top managers like SAF, Conte, Mourinho, etc., have shunned confrontational players as well. SAF ditched Keane once he started becoming a overbearing personality. We all know about the hair-dryer treatment of Beckham.

Hot-takes sell. That's what talkSport specializes in. Has Keown slammed Arteta for Arsenal's current state? KSE? Has he been as vocal? If he has, I haven't seen it. That should tell you everything. Of course, Keown thinks that they did everything and Wenger sat there cowering the the corner.

It's all hip to shit on Wenger but the only reason why we're even talking about Wenger is because there's nothing to talk about in these post-Wenger years.

People can criticize Wenger for valid reasons. Not winning the UCL with the Invincibles, not winning the League in 15/16, even 11/12. But these stupid mentality talks need to stop.

ManU, Chelsea, and City didn't win League titles on sheer mentality. It's as if they weren't the big spenders that they were. Their iron-clad mentality alone yielded.

Someday, sooner rather than later, you guys have to realize that we were never big spenders. We haven't been the most successful club in England since the early 70s.

Using every stick to beat on Wenger is all cool. But it wouldn't ensure success under the Kroenkes. It's all easy to chat shit and get paid. It's all too difficult to call out the existing "regime." For reasons obvious.

The only thing that's remain consistent, over the years, is slamming Wenger. Whether it was when he was manager or now, when he's no longer one.

Anyone with a pea-sized brain can gauge, why.

Longer the slating of Wenger, more concrete the realization of failure under this existing administration.

AFTV, a media outlet that was so vocal during Wenger's final years, now have a seat in Arsenal press conferences. Most of us know what's going on at Arsenal.

Nearly £500m spent since Wenger, and here we are blaming Wenger, celebrating EL qualification.

After Wenger, I never expected Arsenal fans to conjure their own mental gymnastics. But here we are.

Sad, sad.

Nice, well written post, but, with respect, I totally disagree.

My feeling is that Wenger always wanted to play tippy tappy crap with short technical players but knew if he did that from the start he'd fail. When he got the invincible season he felt that meant he could do what he wanted. Replacing vieira with fabregas was the beginning of the end.

We went into possession for the sake of possession and supposedly 'controlling games" with sideways passes on the halfway line. Other teams let us have possession and then waited for our defence to make a mistake.

The old guard know what they are talking about.

[Angelito]

PG, no issues, we disagree.

My point isn't about Wenger's greatness or his failures.

If Wenger was so bad, he installed a style that was so unyielding, Arsenal did end up sacking him, no?

It's been four years since he left. "Tippy-tappy" is no longer what we're about. Wengerball is a relic of the past.

The Kroenkes have spent nearly £500m since Wenger departed, and yet, here we are, that top-4 "trophy" remains elusive.

Forget about Wenger being a failure. Forget about Keown talking about Wenger's lack of mentality. Forget about Dixon justifying this existing state of Arsenal.

Wenger isn't here. He didn't leave last season. He's history, archeology. But, where are we today?

No possession game, no Wenger, no longer financial restrictions. "Weak-minded" Ozil and Fabregas—no longer Gunners, what have we achieved since then?

Now, tell me, how many trophies had Keown won before Wenger?

You know, there was a time when Gerrard willed to chummy up the media and with SAF. He criticized Benítez. Then, SAF wrote in his book that Gerrard wasn't a world class player. He's been silent ever since. Curious, isn't it?

I'm willing to accept Wenger as the worst manager of all time; willing to see Keown and Dixon vindicted. When is that though? Will they dare whisper a word against the Kroenkes? Should I wait for the "old guard" to lacerate the great Kroenkes and the great Mikel Arteta until eternity?

The cold truth is that most Arsenal fans remain Wenger Out several years after he's left. Anything wrong with Arsenal remains a Wenger problem; the upsides not.

If we continue blaming Wenger after 4-6-8 years after he left, it doesn't say as much about Wenger failing. But it does say so, so much about Arsenal not having a devil's clue since he departed.

[Hypergooner]

Nice try at rewriting history.

First we don't have a trend of hiring and firing, we did it once with Emery, once is not classed as a trend.

Second, Man City/Chelsea mindset of fans, what, you mean to expect to win things ? Give me a group of fans with that mindset any day than a group of spineless fans too scared and gullible/accepting of mediocrity to expect more.

You mention Wenger's instant success, thats because he came in and had the talent to coach and get the best out of a bunch of under-performing players - they were by no means at their peak when he took over, they were in decline. You mention groundwork, Emery did groundwork for Arteta, Arteta was handed an on-fire Auba, a new keeper, CB, and 2 CMs and he was unable to get the best out of them !!!

Third, you talk about Arteta im[proving us from 8th to 5th, WE WERE ONLY 8TH BECAUSE ARTETA WAS SO SHIT HE DROPPED US DOWN TO 8TH!!!!! When he inherited the club, we had last finished in 5th place ! Why are you approving of that ? Would you approve of a thief stealing your shit and then returning it a week later ?!!! He stole your shit, he shouldn't have done it in the first damn place !

We did it with Rioch as well

[Hypergooner]

Seriously, can anyone imagine making the f**k ups the size Arteta has made in the past 2 seasons - in their jobs and not expect to be fired ?!!!! I would be out on my arse if I did the same in my job !

The squad Emry put to together looked strong and capable to me. We just needed some discipline at the back. Same as when Wenger left.
Having said this, Arteta clearly came in with a detailed business plan on how he saw the club moving forward in the long term.
You wouldn't get sacked if you were employed to restructure the business and had explained that there would be potential of short term failures, in order to build a new foundation to form an identity on. Then carried out the actions you presented. His plan is pretty clear if you step back and think about it! You don't need to agree with it, but it's there.

1. Reduce inflated wage bill /
2. Change recruitment strategy (young hungry players that will listen and work hard) /
3. Build 1st team around strong British core and Brazilian technique /
4. Sure up the defence /
5. Get fans passion back on board /
6. Win a cup and get in Europe /
7. Get in CL
8. Stay in CL
9. Battle for titles
10. Win title

[theHotHead]

Nice try at rewriting history.

First we don't have a trend of hiring and firing, we did it once with Emery, once is not classed as a trend.

Second, Man City/Chelsea mindset of fans, what, you mean to expect to win things ? Give me a group of fans with that mindset any day than a group of spineless fans too scared and gullible/accepting of mediocrity to expect more.

You mention Wenger's instant success, thats because he came in and had the talent to coach and get the best out of a bunch of under-performing players - they were by no means at their peak when he took over, they were in decline. You mention groundwork, Emery did groundwork for Arteta, Arteta was handed an on-fire Auba, a new keeper, CB, and 2 CMs and he was unable to get the best out of them !!!

Third, you talk about Arteta im[proving us from 8th to 5th, WE WERE ONLY 8TH BECAUSE ARTETA WAS SO SHIT HE DROPPED US DOWN TO 8TH!!!!! When he inherited the club, we had last finished in 5th place ! Why are you approving of that ? Would you approve of a thief stealing your shit and then returning it a week later ?!!! He stole your shit, he shouldn't have done it in the first damn place !

We did it with Rioch as well

And then we got a manager who won the league and cup double in his second season and was at the club for 21 years!!!

So again, that is NOT any kind of trend, twice in 26 years!!

[firfi]

Seriously, can anyone imagine making the f**k ups the size Arteta has made in the past 2 seasons - in their jobs and not expect to be fired ?!!!! I would be out on my arse if I did the same in my job !

The squad Emry put to together looked strong and capable to me. We just needed some discipline at the back. Same as when Wenger left.
Having said this, Arteta clearly came in with a detailed business plan on how he saw the club moving forward in the long term.
You wouldn't get sacked if you were employed to restructure the business and had explained that there would be potential of short term failures, in order to build a new foundation to form an identity on. Then carried out the actions you presented. His plan is pretty clear if you step back and think about it! You don't need to agree with it, but it's there.

1. Reduce inflated wage bill /
2. Change recruitment strategy (young hungry players that will listen and work hard) /
3. Build 1st team around strong British core and Brazilian technique /
4. Sure up the defence /
5. Get fans passion back on board /
6. Win a cup and get in Europe /
7. Get in CL
8. Stay in CL
9. Battle for titles
10. Win title

When Arteta took over Arsenal we finished 5th and 1 game basically below top4 so the squad was good enough to be top4 if it was managed abit better since he kinda sacked the top4 in favor of Europa league.
1.He didn't start reducing the wage bill untill last summer so not really a valid point or we can forget year and a half before that just as a write off.
He signed Willian on big wages , he signed Mari ,Cedric so basically not really getting players to lower the wage bill.
2.He was forced into getting young players because our budget is relatively low and to reduce the wage bill he had to go for younger players at the same time hes basically a novice and getting novice players and expecting them to work out under pressure is a big no no.

He did some positives around the place for sure got the fans all together on the same side improved behind the scenes stuff team mentality abit ,but that doesn't mean we play good football or we're consitent enough to play in CL and compete with the rest of the teams there.
In reality everyone is praising him like hes done some miracle job when in fact hes done the most average job ever.He can't setup the team when we're under pressure and its super obvious when we faced Liverpool in the second leg of micky mouse cup.We played really well with 10 man even outplayed them when we were underdogs ,but when the job became possible in the second leg and all the pressure was on us to perform we bottled it like we did everytime we were on 4th position this season in front and we had to deliver and we bottled it and when we had nothing to play for vs Chelsea and nobody expected a thing we performed ,because we played without the pressure basically.

That leads me to the thing that we're never gonna achieve anything and we're gonna stay bottle jobs untill either hes sacked and we get a new manager or he learns that u need players with experience on high wages often that can deliver performances in the important games to lead the youngsters and basically deliver 6/10 performance no matter the situation and not 3/10 one game and next 7/10.

[Arsenal Tone]

PG, no issues, we disagree.

My point isn't about Wenger's greatness or his failures.

If Wenger was so bad, he installed a style that was so unyielding, Arsenal did end up sacking him, no?

It's been four years since he left. "Tippy-tappy" is no longer what we're about. Wengerball is a relic of the past.

The Kroenkes have spent nearly £500m since Wenger departed, and yet, here we are, that top-4 "trophy" remains elusive.

Forget about Wenger being a failure. Forget about Keown talking about Wenger's lack of mentality. Forget about Dixon justifying this existing state of Arsenal.

Wenger isn't here. He didn't leave last season. He's history, archeology. But, where are we today?

No possession game, no Wenger, no longer financial restrictions. "Weak-minded" Ozil and Fabregas—no longer Gunners, what have we achieved since then?

Now, tell me, how many trophies had Keown won before Wenger?

You know, there was a time when Gerrard willed to chummy up the media and with SAF. He criticized Benítez. Then, SAF wrote in his book that Gerrard wasn't a world class player. He's been silent ever since. Curious, isn't it?

I'm willing to accept Wenger as the worst manager of all time; willing to see Keown and Dixon vindicted. When is that though? Will they dare whisper a word against the Kroenkes? Should I wait for the "old guard" to lacerate the great Kroenkes and the great Mikel Arteta until eternity?

The cold truth is that most Arsenal fans remain Wenger Out several years after he's left. Anything wrong with Arsenal remains a Wenger problem; the upsides not.

If we continue blaming Wenger after 4-6-8 years after he left, it doesn't say as much about Wenger failing. But it does say so, so much about Arsenal not having a devil's clue since he departed.

Fair enough.

I think this summer is when those 'blaming Wenger' excuses stop. If Elneny and Holding are still here that is on Arteta, same if Xhaka is still starting. Players like Chambers, Kolasinac, Auba and Laca will have gone. The bulk of the squad will have this 'new mentality' Keown and co talk about.

Offloading in January means there is no excuse for not getting signings done early this summer. I'm expecting us to take everyone by surprise next season. If not I will change my tune and it won't be Wenger I'm blaming.

[theHotHead]

Hypergooner, you call it a plan, I call it an inexperienced manager winging it!!!

Lets call a spade a spade, the only young players are Saka, Martinelli, ESR and Nketiah and only ESR came through with Arteta, 1 of them is a brilliant player who only an idiot would drop (Saka) and ESR only came into the league team when we were at rock bottom in Dec 2020!! That doesn't sound like planning to me!

Arteta halved the wage bill, from £150m in 2020 to £80m in 2021, commendable, yes. But then you have to take into account paying to give Auba away, giving away Guendouzi who should have brought in £30m+, and a litter of players whose values have shrunk as a result of mis-management from Arteta.

He has gotten "some" fans onside, there are plenty that are not!

I am not saying Arteta has done all bad, he has of course done plenty of good. Had one game result been different this entire board would be ecstatic right now. But he made rookie mistakes, fundamental mistakes that highlight the issues of him being manager. Some of the issues many folks on here do not think he can remedy - some do, time will tell.

If he can remedy them I won't have a problem with him.

[theHotHead]

Cracking post that @firfi

[Hypergooner]

Hypergooner, you call it a plan, I call it an inexperienced manager winging it!!!

Lets call a spade a spade, the only young players are Saka, Martinelli, ESR and Nketiah and only ESR came through with Arteta, 1 of them is a brilliant player who only an idiot would drop (Saka) and ESR only came into the league team when we were at rock bottom in Dec 2020!! That doesn't sound like planning to me!

Arteta halved the wage bill, from £150m in 2020 to £80m in 2021, commendable, yes. But then you have to take into account paying to give Auba away, giving away Guendouzi who should have brought in £30m+, and a litter of players whose values have shrunk as a result of mis-management from Arteta.

He has gotten "some" fans onside, there are plenty that are not!

I am not saying Arteta has done all bad, he has of course done plenty of good. Had one game result been different this entire board would be ecstatic right now. But he made rookie mistakes, fundamental mistakes that highlight the issues of him being manager. Some of the issues many folks on here do not think he can remedy - some do, time will tell.

If he can remedy them I won't have a problem with him.

No manager will ever get all fans onside. Even Fergie had fans calling for him to be sacked.

I should make it clear, I am playing devil's advocate! I don't think we have made progress and I have witnessed some of the most boring football in my 30 years of watching Arsenal.
What I am saying is, I can see the "Process" Arteta sold the club.
I'm looking forward to seeing where we go next season, as the project needs to start bearing fruit and at times this season, our football has looked dominating. If we had got a striker the suits Artetaball this Jan, we would have got 4th. We should have that next season. The project could come good

[ag6789]

Arteta's has the Wenger blueprint, only restrictive in nature right now.
First, he doesn't have the quality in midfield, second, he has to handle a bunch of youngsters and newcomers, and third, he has to tighten the defense, which was the biggest let down for Wenger, and Arteta knows it very well because he was a part of it 9-10 years ago.
If he gets the quality in the midfield, his style will increasingly look lime Wenger's, w/little more focus on defence.

[Highbury Hillbilly]

Arteta's has the Wenger blueprint, only restrictive in nature right now.
First, he doesn't have the quality in midfield, second, he has to handle a bunch of youngsters and newcomers, and third, he has to tighten the defense, which was the biggest let down for Wenger, and Arteta knows it very well because he was a part of it 9-10 years ago.
If he gets the quality in the midfield, his style will increasingly look lime Wenger's, w/little more focus on defence.

£100m outlay on handpicked defenders since Arteta arrived, yet we lost the same number of games (13) that got Wenger the boot.

Some of those picks like Tavares gave away a goal 3 games running during our brief stint in 4th, and will likely be replaced.

Saying "he has to handle a bunch of youngsters" is a convenient excuse if you think of Arsenal as a plucky Ted Lasso underdog club. I can't blame you, that's the message that the club PR and the press have been bleating since 2019.

[Hypergooner]

Things could change with 2 strikers and a CM, for next season. If not he probably should get the boot!

Would the next manager have to rebuild all over again though? Is the current squad good enough for more attacking football?

[swipe right]

Things could change with 2 strikers and a CM, for next season. If not he probably should get the boot!

Would the next manager have to rebuild all over again though? Is the current squad good enough for more attacking football?

He can’t play his brand of football with two strikers. He needs guys behind the ball who will work their way forward. He wants total control of the game. He needs a lone striker who is super clinical.