William Saliba (2)

[jayramfootball]

Ben Whites heading is a weakness of his, he got beaten to almost every header by Davis in the first half yesterday, that and his tendency to stand back and watch attackers come at him.

Also no one said Ben White is terrible, they said he’s not worth 50 million and has some clear weaknesses in his game.

This is not correct and makes discussion difficult because it is not grounded in reality.
Ben White won 50% of his headers in the game and on the ones he lost , Forest were unable to retain possession because he put the attacker off enough for them to lose control of the ball on most of those.
Davis won 42% of his headers on the night.



Forest actually had very few chances created through the middle against White and Holding.

This season White is also ahead of Saliba on percentage of aerial duels won - again PL compared to French league too.
It's one of the areas of weakness for Saliba that he needs to improve upon.

I said on the 1st half btw and I watched it, I don’t care what your stats say, I saw him getting beaten time and time again, that’s reality, starts aren’t. It made me realise how poor he is in the air, the guy bullied him there.

No you didn't see that because it didn't happen.
I know you don't care what reality shows and says.
You prefer to make up your own story.

What is also reality is that this season White is actually outperforming Gabriel on winning headers and both are significantly ahead of Saliba.

Oh here we go again, the oracle is back

I told you I was watching and time and time again they launched the ball to Davis and he won it.

You saw what you wanted to see, not what actually happened.
I watched the game too. Twice.

[Salibatelli]

Ben Whites heading is a weakness of his, he got beaten to almost every header by Davis in the first half yesterday, that and his tendency to stand back and watch attackers come at him.

Also no one said Ben White is terrible, they said he’s not worth 50 million and has some clear weaknesses in his game.

This is not correct and makes discussion difficult because it is not grounded in reality.
Ben White won 50% of his headers in the game and on the ones he lost , Forest were unable to retain possession because he put the attacker off enough for them to lose control of the ball on most of those.
Davis won 42% of his headers on the night.



Forest actually had very few chances created through the middle against White and Holding.

This season White is also ahead of Saliba on percentage of aerial duels won - again PL compared to French league too.
It's one of the areas of weakness for Saliba that he needs to improve upon.

I said on the 1st half btw and I watched it, I don’t care what your stats say, I saw him getting beaten time and time again, that’s reality, starts aren’t. It made me realise how poor he is in the air, the guy bullied him there.

No you didn't see that because it didn't happen.
I know you don't care what reality shows and says.
You prefer to make up your own story.

What is also reality is that this season White is actually outperforming Gabriel on winning headers and both are significantly ahead of Saliba.

Oh here we go again, the oracle is back

I told you I was watching and time and time again they launched the ball to Davis and he won it.

You saw what you wanted to see, not what actually happened.
I watched the game too. Twice.

Did you have the stats glued to the screen obscuring the picture twice as well?

[jayramfootball]

Ben Whites heading is a weakness of his, he got beaten to almost every header by Davis in the first half yesterday, that and his tendency to stand back and watch attackers come at him.

Also no one said Ben White is terrible, they said he’s not worth 50 million and has some clear weaknesses in his game.

This is not correct and makes discussion difficult because it is not grounded in reality.
Ben White won 50% of his headers in the game and on the ones he lost , Forest were unable to retain possession because he put the attacker off enough for them to lose control of the ball on most of those.
Davis won 42% of his headers on the night.



Forest actually had very few chances created through the middle against White and Holding.

This season White is also ahead of Saliba on percentage of aerial duels won - again PL compared to French league too.
It's one of the areas of weakness for Saliba that he needs to improve upon.

I said on the 1st half btw and I watched it, I don’t care what your stats say, I saw him getting beaten time and time again, that’s reality, starts aren’t. It made me realise how poor he is in the air, the guy bullied him there.

No you didn't see that because it didn't happen.
I know you don't care what reality shows and says.
You prefer to make up your own story.

What is also reality is that this season White is actually outperforming Gabriel on winning headers and both are significantly ahead of Saliba.

Oh here we go again, the oracle is back

I told you I was watching and time and time again they launched the ball to Davis and he won it.

You saw what you wanted to see, not what actually happened.
I watched the game too. Twice.

Did you have the stats glued to the screen obscuring the picture, twice as well?

I always watch games at least twice, either at the game and then on TV, or twice on TV - and I look out for things like this.

Take for example your match day comment:

White is losing every header to that Forest guy up front.

That was just 14 minutes after the game had started and at that point White had been involved in 5 aerial battles with Davis. White won 3 of them. The other 2 he put enough pressure on Davis that Davis lost possession of the ball despite winning the header on both occasions. Davis only managed to retain possession for his team twice in non aerial duels, once where White did not challenge him, standing too far off, and the other where Davis shielded the ball on his chest well. On a further occasion, White muscled him off the ball and won possession in a non aerial duel.

In other words, in 8 battles they had as the game was being set in that first 15 mins or so, Davis lost possession on 6 of them when up against White and lost 3 of 5 headers. Forest actually tried it far less as the game wore on, for obvious reason. In fact for much of the game after Davis tried his luck against Holding and was beaten the majority of the time there too before being subbed off in the 68th minute.

Your comment on the match thread was asinine and entirely in pursuit of an agenda against the player. You do that a lot. If we are not playing well, you will pick out the players you have an agenda against (usually - almost always in fact - the players Arteta signed) and dredge up tired tropes that you have attempted to set in the past.

You saw the two occasions Davis actually managed to make something of a battle and dismissed all the other occasions because that is what you are predisposed to do.

Like I said, Forest created almost nothing through the middle against White or Holding.
Don't expect to be able to make things up to support a predisposition and get away with it unchallenged.

[theHotHead]

Compare the same to Ben White please, lets see how Ben White compares to other CBs in the top 5 leagues.

He's better than Saliba in Interceptions, blocks and heading - and that is with White playing in the PL, not the French league.



Playing Time
90s -- 90s played
Minutes played divided by 90
Tackles
Tkl -- Number of players tackled
TklW -- Tackles in which the tackler's team won possession of the ball
Def 3rd -- Tackles in defensive 1/3
Mid 3rd -- Tackles in middle 1/3
Att 3rd -- Tackles in attacking 1/3
Vs Dribbles
Tkl -- Number of dribblers tackled
Att -- Number of times dribbled past plus number of tackles
Tkl% -- Percentage of dribblers tackled
Dribblers tackled divided by dribblers tackled plus times dribbled past
Minimum .625 dribblers contested per squad game to qualify as a leader
Past -- Number of times dribbled past by an opposing player
Pressures
Press -- Number of times applying pressure to opposing player who is receiving, carrying or releasing the ball
Succ -- Number of times the squad gained possession withing five seconds of applying pressure
% -- Successful Pressure Percentage
Percentage of time the squad gained possession withing five seconds of applying pressure
Minimum 6.44 pressures per squad game to qualify as a leader
Def 3rd -- Number of times applying pressure to opposing player who is receiving, carrying or releasing the ball, in the defensive 1/3
Mid 3rd -- Number of times applying pressure to opposing player who is receiving, carrying or releasing the ball, in the middle 1/3
Att 3rd -- Number of times applying pressure to opposing player who is receiving, carrying or releasing the ball, in the attacking 1/3
Blocks
Blocks -- Number of times blocking the ball by standing in its path
Sh -- Number of times blocking a shot by standing in its path
ShSv -- Number of times blocking a shot that was on target, by standing in its path
Pass -- Number of times blocking a pass by standing in its path
Int -- Interceptions
Tkl+Int -- Number of players tackled plus number of interceptions
Clr -- Clearances
Err -- Mistakes leading to an opponent's shot




Playing Time
90s -- 90s played
Minutes played divided by 90
Performance
CrdY -- Yellow Cards
CrdR -- Red Cards
2CrdY -- Second Yellow Card
Fls -- Fouls Committed
Fld -- Fouls Drawn
Off -- Offsides
Crs -- Crosses
Int -- Interceptions
TklW -- Tackles in which the tackler's team won possession of the ball
PKwon -- Penalty Kicks Won
PKcon -- Penalty Kicks Conceded
OG -- Own Goals
Recov -- Number of loose balls recovered
Aerial Duels
Won -- Aerials won
Lost -- Aerials lost
Won% -- Percentage of aerials won
Minimum .97 aerial duels per squad game to qualify as a leader



This is why I shake my head when I hear that Saliba has been outstanding and White has been shit - that's a distortion of reality

Both of them are doing pretty well in some areas and need to improve in others - but White is doing at it a higher level (which I think personally is mainly down to him just being more experienced at the higher level. 3 yrs older. Saliba has some catching up to do, but he is developing. His tackling was poor and now it is becoming much better).

There is an objective conversation to be had, but when it's in the realm of 'Arteta bad, Saliba magnificent' it's a non starter of a conversation, because Saliba has been anything but magnificent and has a lot to improve upon still at the level of the French League- never mind the PL. But he IS getting better. If he keeps on improving, I think he has a real shot at a top PL club. Hopefully he does, and hopefully it's us.

Lol Jay, why couldn't you just provide the same stats via the same graphic so I can do a side by side comparison?! Aint nobody got time to trawl through all that text you just posted lol

[Arsenal Tone]

We need three centre backs to rotate. I hope he gets his chance next season. Gabriel, White and Saliba would be great.

[Salibatelli]

Yes we do need 3 decent CBs you’re right, this season we’re very short.

[jayramfootball]

We need three centre backs to rotate. I hope he gets his chance next season. Gabriel, White and Saliba would be great.

Agreed. If Saliba can come through in the summer and is motivated to be part of Arsenal's future, then he'll be a valuable option.

[jayramfootball]

dbl

[jayramfootball]

Not had a great last few games. Some of his defending was not good in this weekends 1-1 draw with Lille (who were down to 10 men).

Needs to attack the ball - will get caught regularly in the PL if he doesn't improve on moments like this.

This one is worse. Not sure what he is doing. Ball watching.

Has to work really hard to improve his form for the rest of the season if he is going to make it here.

[Phil71]

Not had a great last few games. Some of his defending was not good in this weekends 1-1 draw with Lille (who were down to 10 men).

Needs to attack the ball - will get caught regularly in the PL if he doesn't improve on moments like this.

This one is worse. Not sure what he is doing. Ball watching.

Has to work really hard to improve his form for the rest of the season if he is going to make it here.

Surely not!

I thought he was at Beckenbauer level!

[ag6789]

Being too tall , he's probably slow in covering and turning; so unless you have great anticipation and positional skills like Mertasaker, you would be a liability in PL.
Maybe one the traits that has put off the current management.

[jayramfootball]

Being too tall , he's probably slow in covering and turning; so unless you have great anticipation and positional skills like Mertasaker, you would be a liability in PL.
Maybe one the traits that has put off the current management.

I think he can learn with time... there were instances this weekend that were down to lack of concentration - ball watching and not covering runners in the box...not any physical limitations. But , with the speed of the PL, he has a lot to do to be ready.

[Yago]

Being too tall , he's probably slow in covering and turning; so unless you have great anticipation and positional skills like Mertasaker, you would be a liability in PL.
Maybe one the traits that has put off the current management.

He isn't slow, and he's barely any taller than Gabriel.

[Salibatelli]

Not had a great last few games. Some of his defending was not good in this weekends 1-1 draw with Lille (who were down to 10 men).

Needs to attack the ball - will get caught regularly in the PL if he doesn't improve on moments like this.

This one is worse. Not sure what he is doing. Ball watching.

Has to work really hard to improve his form for the rest of the season if he is going to make it here.

You can pick out examples of mistakes by pretty much any player over the course of an entire game, pretty sure our current lot make mistakes regularly, some they get away with. He’s a quality defender who is highly rated and has impressed people in France.

[Yago]

Why people don't have Jay on ignore yet I'll never know.