William Saliba (2)

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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby swipe right » Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:26 am

jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:You’re in the minority, most people think he’s been very good, even the people nominating and voting for awards.

I think their view is more meaningful personally since they clearly have seen him play a fair amount.


Personally I think Arteta's and Arsenal's coaches and management team view is more meaningful.
That's why he was sent to a lower league to get better.
I'll go with the coaches view over football journalists - notoriously hacks.

As for watching him. I have watched him play awful the last two games. He needs to get better. He should be dominating in the league he is playing in week in week out except against PSG. He's not.

Would these be the same coaches who sold Emi and bought Willian? Asking for a friend :sneaky:
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby theHotHead » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:14 am

The £27m price tag at 19 suggests and this nomination suggests he is as good a player ad many of us think.
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby Nuggets » Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:59 am

swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:You’re in the minority, most people think he’s been very good, even the people nominating and voting for awards.

I think their view is more meaningful personally since they clearly have seen him play a fair amount.


Personally I think Arteta's and Arsenal's coaches and management team view is more meaningful.
That's why he was sent to a lower league to get better.
I'll go with the coaches view over football journalists - notoriously hacks.

As for watching him. I have watched him play awful the last two games. He needs to get better. He should be dominating in the league he is playing in week in week out except against PSG. He's not.

Would these be the same coaches who sold Emi and bought Willian? Asking for a friend :sneaky:


Gorra good point what do you say Jay lol :sneaky2:
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby Salibatelli » Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:33 am

jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:You’re in the minority, most people think he’s been very good, even the people nominating and voting for awards.

I think their view is more meaningful personally since they clearly have seen him play a fair amount.


Personally I think Arteta's and Arsenal's coaches and management team view is more meaningful.
That's why he was sent to a lower league to get better.
I'll go with the coaches view over football journalists - notoriously hacks.

As for watching him. I have watched him play awful the last two games. He needs to get better. He should be dominating in the league he is playing in week in week out except against PSG. He's not.


That’s where we differ, I don’t trust them at all, they’ve got a record of not giving certain players chances and giving others countless chances.

They’ve also overseen our worst Arsenal period since the 70s/80s, I can’t fathom why anyone would trust this bunch.
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby theHotHead » Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:37 am

Jay, surely you must see that, having made a number of high profile and ultimately terrible decisions you can't hang your argument on "the trust of the manager and coaches" as the basis of YOUR argument and expect it to carry any weight!

Im not saying Arteta needs to be perfect, but to make as many mistakes as he has thus far renders his judgement as "sketchy" at best!
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:46 am

theHotHead wrote:Jay, surely you must see that, having made a number of high profile and ultimately terrible decisions you can't hang your argument on "the trust of the manager and coaches" as the basis of YOUR argument and expect it to carry any weight!

Im not saying Arteta needs to be perfect, but to make as many mistakes as he has thus far renders his judgement as "sketchy" at best!


It's not about trusting anyone.
Every coach and coaching team has examples of mistakes. However their assessments most of the time are correct.

I will always take the view of the coaching staff over a journalist looking for clicks.
Funnier still we actually have GW members who really think they are better coaches than the arsenal coaching staff. It's quite funny to witness.

At this moment Saliba has been deemed as not ready for the PL by the experts - those that worked with him daily. From what I have seen this season from him, I would go along with that coaching assessment. A couple of major flaws need to be ironed out.
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby swipe right » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:25 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Jay, surely you must see that, having made a number of high profile and ultimately terrible decisions you can't hang your argument on "the trust of the manager and coaches" as the basis of YOUR argument and expect it to carry any weight!

Im not saying Arteta needs to be perfect, but to make as many mistakes as he has thus far renders his judgement as "sketchy" at best!


It's not about trusting anyone.
Every coach and coaching team has examples of mistakes. However their assessments most of the time are correct.

I will always take the view of the coaching staff over a journalist looking for clicks.
Funnier still we actually have GW members who really think they are better coaches than the arsenal coaching staff. It's quite funny to witness.

At this moment Saliba has been deemed as not ready for the PL by the experts - those that worked with him daily. From what I have seen this season from him, I would go along with that coaching assessment. A couple of major flaws need to be ironed out.

Do you even know the names of our coaches?
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:04 pm

swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Jay, surely you must see that, having made a number of high profile and ultimately terrible decisions you can't hang your argument on "the trust of the manager and coaches" as the basis of YOUR argument and expect it to carry any weight!

Im not saying Arteta needs to be perfect, but to make as many mistakes as he has thus far renders his judgement as "sketchy" at best!


It's not about trusting anyone.
Every coach and coaching team has examples of mistakes. However their assessments most of the time are correct.

I will always take the view of the coaching staff over a journalist looking for clicks.
Funnier still we actually have GW members who really think they are better coaches than the arsenal coaching staff. It's quite funny to witness.

At this moment Saliba has been deemed as not ready for the PL by the experts - those that worked with him daily. From what I have seen this season from him, I would go along with that coaching assessment. A couple of major flaws need to be ironed out.

Do you even know the names of our coaches?


Many of them yes - all of them no.
Nor am I privy to which ones would have given Arteta advice on it.
But, I trust the combined decision making of a group of people who are football men and are in and around the team and the specific player on a day to day basis, getting to watch 100 times more of a player than we do or any journalist does.

Do you know all of the journalists or even the publications that make the decision on who the top 20 U21 players are?

Bottom line is our defence looks good and really Saliba is not even the next best player to consider - that would be Mavrapanos.
Saliba needs to improve over the next couple of years (when he'll still only be 22).
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby Salibatelli » Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:08 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Jay, surely you must see that, having made a number of high profile and ultimately terrible decisions you can't hang your argument on "the trust of the manager and coaches" as the basis of YOUR argument and expect it to carry any weight!

Im not saying Arteta needs to be perfect, but to make as many mistakes as he has thus far renders his judgement as "sketchy" at best!


It's not about trusting anyone.
Every coach and coaching team has examples of mistakes. However their assessments most of the time are correct.

I will always take the view of the coaching staff over a journalist looking for clicks.
Funnier still we actually have GW members who really think they are better coaches than the arsenal coaching staff. It's quite funny to witness.

At this moment Saliba has been deemed as not ready for the PL by the experts - those that worked with him daily. From what I have seen this season from him, I would go along with that coaching assessment. A couple of major flaws need to be ironed out.


Oh yes, working with him daily between 3 seasons of loans for about 5 minutes. :lol:

Most of our players haven’t developed under these coaches ironically, what a great bunch!
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby Ach » Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:10 pm

The lengths people go to to defend Arteta who's messed up with Saliba
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:15 pm

Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Jay, surely you must see that, having made a number of high profile and ultimately terrible decisions you can't hang your argument on "the trust of the manager and coaches" as the basis of YOUR argument and expect it to carry any weight!

Im not saying Arteta needs to be perfect, but to make as many mistakes as he has thus far renders his judgement as "sketchy" at best!


It's not about trusting anyone.
Every coach and coaching team has examples of mistakes. However their assessments most of the time are correct.

I will always take the view of the coaching staff over a journalist looking for clicks.
Funnier still we actually have GW members who really think they are better coaches than the arsenal coaching staff. It's quite funny to witness.

At this moment Saliba has been deemed as not ready for the PL by the experts - those that worked with him daily. From what I have seen this season from him, I would go along with that coaching assessment. A couple of major flaws need to be ironed out.


Oh yes, working with him daily between 3 seasons of loans for about 5 minutes. :lol:

Most of our players haven’t developed under these coaches ironically, what a great bunch!


Nope - he had plenty of time with the coaching staff and proved not to be good enough.
Despite your protestations, it is entirely obvious that the people who made the decision know more about it than you do - or any journalist.
Indeed Saliba himself admitted he was not ready - but I guess you know more than him too. After all, he could be anyone - he's just a tool for you to use in your anti-Arsenal crusade.

Saka, ESR, Gabriel are all young players developing nicely thanks very much.
We also have a new group of youngsters who have hit the ground running.
Seems to me, with one of the youngest teams in the entire PL, we're doing OK on that front.
We could be just 2 points off top 4 if we win on Monday night - what a disaster that would be for you! Especially if we keep another clean sheet.
Guess you better hope we lose.
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby swipe right » Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:55 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Jay, surely you must see that, having made a number of high profile and ultimately terrible decisions you can't hang your argument on "the trust of the manager and coaches" as the basis of YOUR argument and expect it to carry any weight!

Im not saying Arteta needs to be perfect, but to make as many mistakes as he has thus far renders his judgement as "sketchy" at best!


It's not about trusting anyone.
Every coach and coaching team has examples of mistakes. However their assessments most of the time are correct.

I will always take the view of the coaching staff over a journalist looking for clicks.
Funnier still we actually have GW members who really think they are better coaches than the arsenal coaching staff. It's quite funny to witness.

At this moment Saliba has been deemed as not ready for the PL by the experts - those that worked with him daily. From what I have seen this season from him, I would go along with that coaching assessment. A couple of major flaws need to be ironed out.

Do you even know the names of our coaches?


Many of them yes - all of them no.
Nor am I privy to which ones would have given Arteta advice on it.
But, I trust the combined decision making of a group of people who are football men and are in and around the team and the specific player on a day to day basis, getting to watch 100 times more of a player than we do or any journalist does.

Do you know all of the journalists or even the publications that make the decision on who the top 20 U21 players are?

Bottom line is our defence looks good and really Saliba is not even the next best player to consider - that would be Mavrapanos.
Saliba needs to improve over the next couple of years (when he'll still only be 22).

I don’t know the names of the journalists. But I do know the names of the players they picked and it’s quite a list.

2003 van dear Vaart
2004 Rooney
2005 Messi
2006 Fabregas
2007 Aguero
2008 Anderson
2009 Pato
2010 Baloteli
2011 Gotze
2012 Isco
2013 Pogba
2014 Sterling
2015 Martial
2016 Renato Sanchez
2017 Mbappe
2018 de Ligt
2019 Felix
2020 Halaand

Now could you share a list of the players these current Arsenal coaches developed?
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:58 pm

swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Jay, surely you must see that, having made a number of high profile and ultimately terrible decisions you can't hang your argument on "the trust of the manager and coaches" as the basis of YOUR argument and expect it to carry any weight!

Im not saying Arteta needs to be perfect, but to make as many mistakes as he has thus far renders his judgement as "sketchy" at best!


It's not about trusting anyone.
Every coach and coaching team has examples of mistakes. However their assessments most of the time are correct.

I will always take the view of the coaching staff over a journalist looking for clicks.
Funnier still we actually have GW members who really think they are better coaches than the arsenal coaching staff. It's quite funny to witness.

At this moment Saliba has been deemed as not ready for the PL by the experts - those that worked with him daily. From what I have seen this season from him, I would go along with that coaching assessment. A couple of major flaws need to be ironed out.

Do you even know the names of our coaches?


Many of them yes - all of them no.
Nor am I privy to which ones would have given Arteta advice on it.
But, I trust the combined decision making of a group of people who are football men and are in and around the team and the specific player on a day to day basis, getting to watch 100 times more of a player than we do or any journalist does.

Do you know all of the journalists or even the publications that make the decision on who the top 20 U21 players are?

Bottom line is our defence looks good and really Saliba is not even the next best player to consider - that would be Mavrapanos.
Saliba needs to improve over the next couple of years (when he'll still only be 22).

I don’t know the names of the journalists. But I do know the names of the players they picked and it’s quite a list.

2003 van dear Vaart
2004 Rooney
2005 Messi
2006 Fabregas
2007 Aguero
2008 Anderson
2009 Pato
2010 Baloteli
2011 Gotze
2012 Isco
2013 Pogba
2014 Sterling
2015 Martial
2016 Renato Sanchez
2017 Mbappe
2018 de Ligt
2019 Felix
2020 Halaand

Now could you share a list of the players these current Arsenal coaches developed?


They are the winners, not the nominees.
Get back to me if Saliba wins the award.

I will assume from your answer you have no idea who actually chooses the nominees.

As for our U21s doing well.
Saka, ESR for starters.

To emphasise how clueless the journalists are - the people you don't even know or even what publication they write for - they placed Martinelli in the list for his 2021 contribution and not ESR. Yeah, like I said... better to trust the coaches.
;)
Last edited by jayramfootball on Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby theHotHead » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:02 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Jay, surely you must see that, having made a number of high profile and ultimately terrible decisions you can't hang your argument on "the trust of the manager and coaches" as the basis of YOUR argument and expect it to carry any weight!

Im not saying Arteta needs to be perfect, but to make as many mistakes as he has thus far renders his judgement as "sketchy" at best!


It's not about trusting anyone.
Every coach and coaching team has examples of mistakes. However their assessments most of the time are correct.

I will always take the view of the coaching staff over a journalist looking for clicks.
Funnier still we actually have GW members who really think they are better coaches than the arsenal coaching staff. It's quite funny to witness.

At this moment Saliba has been deemed as not ready for the PL by the experts - those that worked with him daily. From what I have seen this season from him, I would go along with that coaching assessment. A couple of major flaws need to be ironed out.

But other coaches and managers have deemed he IS good enough and player of the month awards, team of the season and young player of the year nominations seems to back that up.
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - Olympique de Marseille)

Postby swipe right » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:02 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Jay, surely you must see that, having made a number of high profile and ultimately terrible decisions you can't hang your argument on "the trust of the manager and coaches" as the basis of YOUR argument and expect it to carry any weight!

Im not saying Arteta needs to be perfect, but to make as many mistakes as he has thus far renders his judgement as "sketchy" at best!


It's not about trusting anyone.
Every coach and coaching team has examples of mistakes. However their assessments most of the time are correct.

I will always take the view of the coaching staff over a journalist looking for clicks.
Funnier still we actually have GW members who really think they are better coaches than the arsenal coaching staff. It's quite funny to witness.

At this moment Saliba has been deemed as not ready for the PL by the experts - those that worked with him daily. From what I have seen this season from him, I would go along with that coaching assessment. A couple of major flaws need to be ironed out.

Do you even know the names of our coaches?


Many of them yes - all of them no.
Nor am I privy to which ones would have given Arteta advice on it.
But, I trust the combined decision making of a group of people who are football men and are in and around the team and the specific player on a day to day basis, getting to watch 100 times more of a player than we do or any journalist does.

Do you know all of the journalists or even the publications that make the decision on who the top 20 U21 players are?

Bottom line is our defence looks good and really Saliba is not even the next best player to consider - that would be Mavrapanos.
Saliba needs to improve over the next couple of years (when he'll still only be 22).

I don’t know the names of the journalists. But I do know the names of the players they picked and it’s quite a list.

2003 van dear Vaart
2004 Rooney
2005 Messi
2006 Fabregas
2007 Aguero
2008 Anderson
2009 Pato
2010 Baloteli
2011 Gotze
2012 Isco
2013 Pogba
2014 Sterling
2015 Martial
2016 Renato Sanchez
2017 Mbappe
2018 de Ligt
2019 Felix
2020 Halaand

Now could you share a list of the players these current Arsenal coaches developed?


They are the winners, not the nominees.
Get back to me if Saliba wins the award.

I will assume from your answer you have no idea who actually chooses the nominees.

No idea. But on the evidence they seem adept. How about our coaches? I will assume from your lack of an answer that you have no idea who they have coached.
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