Benjamin White (4)

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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:11 pm

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:The French League is a much much lower standard than the PL.
That's just a fact.

Regardless - even if they were the same - you used whoscored stats. Not my stats , yours.
They show that last week White was rated the same as Saliba.
White's performance was characterised as poor or shit, whilst Saliba's magnificent.
It's that kind of assessment that reveals the agenda fully and makes any argument about some conspiracy against Saliba very transparently bullshit.
There is an agenda-driven bias and it is crystal clear.

If the debate was that Saliba was looking pretty decent in a lower quality league, but is showing some particularly good aspects to his game - and he looks like he good do a job for us.. i.e. Arteta and Arsenal may have made a mistake, I would be all ears. You may have noticed that BEFORE he was loaned I said he should be given a chance.

However, whilst the agenda continues that turns the argument into Saliba is magnificent, Arteta bad, White is shit.. .you will get zero traction from me on any point in your argument.

Stop with the argument creep ! Norwich and Burnley are not better than Montpellier and Bordeaux. Thats what this specific argument is about. The whoscored stats argument is separate, lets address it separately.


You can't defend the 'separate' argument HH. It's indefensible.

As for the French league - it's well below the level of the PL and yes Norwich and Burnley are better teams than Montpellier and Bordeaux.

French football is a graveyard of players who either can't or don't want to cut it in the big leagues anymore OR young players who haven't made it yet... with a dab of a financial cheat of a club that attracts the players more interested in money than the competition.

That is why when you look at squad value:
Norwich 170m
Burnley 130m
Montpellier 80m
Bordeux 79m

On squad value Norwich would be 7th in value in the French League and Burnley 8th.
That is about where they would finish too if they played in it, on some occasions challenging for the top 4.
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:18 pm

Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:No it’s isn’t, your agenda is pro Arteta and Edu, no one pro Arsenal would support what we’ve been seeing for the last 2 years, it’s not at the required level for Arsenal.

I just post what comes up, I don’t search for it it comes up, I don’t rate Arteta and don’t like him as manager so yes if I see something that comes up that I think proved that I will post it.

If got no loyalty to him, all I care is how the club does and he’s not delivering so he needs to be sacked, that’s the end of it for me, he’s had his chance and I’m done with him.

All you do is support the absolute rubbish we’ve been putting out, it’s actually people like you that allow the club to get away with underperforming by accepting it and even going as far as hailing it.

We’ve got an owner who doesn’t care, if he’s got a bunch of people who will accept any rubbish we put out he’ll be happy with that as long as he’s not losing money, luckily for him there is a group of people like that and so he can get away with it and doesn’t have to bother changing managers he can just let the same rubbish continue to be churned out.


Nope.
My position has been stated and remains the same - broadly.
Top 6 and at Christmas we need to be not out of the top 4 race - i.e. we've had no horrible runs like we did last mid-Oct to mid-Dec.
If that is not met then get a new manager.
It's not complicated. It's reasonable.

Because you have entrenched yourself so much, from a point you can never climb out, you see anything that is not hyperventilating about how bad everything is as pro-Arteta.

I will always call out the OTT (ridiculous) nonsense I will always be happy when we win any game in the PL, not whining because we didn't win by more.
Right now I am delighted as we've won 2 games on the spin, kept 2 clean sheets and have a chance of really getting ourselves back on track on Sunday. I am also very excited by the prospect of some excellent new signings and what that means for our future.

In short, I am standing on a hill with a telescope, checking immediate surroundings and also looking out to the horizon.
You're 50ft into the ground looking down and still digging.

Your 'required level' for Arsenal is also horsehit - you think we should be thrashing teams in away games in the PL and see a 1-0 away win as a failure.
Arsenal FC has NEVER been at a level where that would be the norm and neither has any other club in this country.



My required level for Arsenal is challenging for the big prizes and being in the CL challenging, like any Arsenal fan, this top 6 BS is nonsense, that should never be our aim but we’ve got a manager who can’t even achieve that anyway. Now of course if I see progress towards that then I would be happy enough, but there isn’t any after 2 years now, so that enough for me and Arteta has had his chance. I don’t believe in him and he’s already confirmed with our worst start ever that he’s still not up to it, no excuses you deal with what’s in front of you and deliver, he hasn’t yet again!

You’re as OTT as the come which is why I and many many others call you out, just look at the Saliba conversation, you just cannot bring yourself to say Arteta has an issue with him despite it being clear, instead you spout out some absolutely BS about training and when people call you up on it you still maintain players are picked on how they trains (which is absolute rubbish btw, it might be true for untested kids but not 30 million signings).

You see yourself as some sort of sheriff of Arsenal when in fact your blind faith doesn’t allow you to see the reality, that ridiculous mythical 2nd half of the season stat for example, when we lose it’s because it was a tough match or we were done by VAR or some sort of conspiracy theory, when we scrape a win it’s because everyone was amazing and the best thing since sliced bread.

And your support of Arteta (despite your claims otherwise) is very misguided (you’re not the only one either) to the point that you support the ridiculous.

In a way I’m glad your views of me are such because if they weren’t I’d be worried about my opinions tbh.


Your 'required' level is not reality.
You are like a spolied child asking mummy for sweets when she has no money.
You cry when you don't get them and blame mummy.

Arsenal fans who actually understand the game, the club and where we are now will be delighted with top 6 this season.
Very few, like yourself, will continue to cry about it because you have the false belief that we should be challenging for the title every year and 'thrashing' teams home and away all the time. You live in a fantasy world.


It’s reality for ever other big club out there, they don’t aspire to come 6th, that’s just club PR nonsense.

For some reason Arsenal is some sort of exception, when Man U lost Ferguson they went through transition but you never heard them say oh we want to come top 6, no they wanted to win the title and play in the CL and compete.

Likewise Chelsea and Liverpool.

Big clubs have big aspirations, the trouble is for years at this club expectations have been dampened to the point that now we have to be eternally grateful if we make it into the top 6.

It’s losers mentality, winners don’t aspire to come 6th they aim high and try to achieve it.

This club hasn’t done much right in many years but one thing they’ve got spot on is lowering expectations of some fans to the point that they’re grateful with whatever they get.

Weber basically become a club with a losers mentality. Oh and it has nothing to do with understanding the game, it’s to do with being brainwashed by the club over many years into accepting being 2nd rate.

The right person with the right ambition could turn this club around fairly efficiently, if we’d give them enough 160 million to a decent manager we’d already be on our way instead of being stuck in the same place we’ve been for 2 years.

What hurts this club is lack of ambition and it start at the top with an owner who really couldn’t care less what happens on the pitch as long as the share price remains at its level and filters all the way through the club.


Aspiration and 'required standard' are not the same thing.
I want us to win the league every year. I am sure the club want to as well.
The required standard for the players and manager to have a good season is nothing of the sort, however.
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby Salibatelli » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:26 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:No it’s isn’t, your agenda is pro Arteta and Edu, no one pro Arsenal would support what we’ve been seeing for the last 2 years, it’s not at the required level for Arsenal.

I just post what comes up, I don’t search for it it comes up, I don’t rate Arteta and don’t like him as manager so yes if I see something that comes up that I think proved that I will post it.

If got no loyalty to him, all I care is how the club does and he’s not delivering so he needs to be sacked, that’s the end of it for me, he’s had his chance and I’m done with him.

All you do is support the absolute rubbish we’ve been putting out, it’s actually people like you that allow the club to get away with underperforming by accepting it and even going as far as hailing it.

We’ve got an owner who doesn’t care, if he’s got a bunch of people who will accept any rubbish we put out he’ll be happy with that as long as he’s not losing money, luckily for him there is a group of people like that and so he can get away with it and doesn’t have to bother changing managers he can just let the same rubbish continue to be churned out.


Nope.
My position has been stated and remains the same - broadly.
Top 6 and at Christmas we need to be not out of the top 4 race - i.e. we've had no horrible runs like we did last mid-Oct to mid-Dec.
If that is not met then get a new manager.
It's not complicated. It's reasonable.

Because you have entrenched yourself so much, from a point you can never climb out, you see anything that is not hyperventilating about how bad everything is as pro-Arteta.

I will always call out the OTT (ridiculous) nonsense I will always be happy when we win any game in the PL, not whining because we didn't win by more.
Right now I am delighted as we've won 2 games on the spin, kept 2 clean sheets and have a chance of really getting ourselves back on track on Sunday. I am also very excited by the prospect of some excellent new signings and what that means for our future.

In short, I am standing on a hill with a telescope, checking immediate surroundings and also looking out to the horizon.
You're 50ft into the ground looking down and still digging.

Your 'required level' for Arsenal is also horsehit - you think we should be thrashing teams in away games in the PL and see a 1-0 away win as a failure.
Arsenal FC has NEVER been at a level where that would be the norm and neither has any other club in this country.



My required level for Arsenal is challenging for the big prizes and being in the CL challenging, like any Arsenal fan, this top 6 BS is nonsense, that should never be our aim but we’ve got a manager who can’t even achieve that anyway. Now of course if I see progress towards that then I would be happy enough, but there isn’t any after 2 years now, so that enough for me and Arteta has had his chance. I don’t believe in him and he’s already confirmed with our worst start ever that he’s still not up to it, no excuses you deal with what’s in front of you and deliver, he hasn’t yet again!

You’re as OTT as the come which is why I and many many others call you out, just look at the Saliba conversation, you just cannot bring yourself to say Arteta has an issue with him despite it being clear, instead you spout out some absolutely BS about training and when people call you up on it you still maintain players are picked on how they trains (which is absolute rubbish btw, it might be true for untested kids but not 30 million signings).

You see yourself as some sort of sheriff of Arsenal when in fact your blind faith doesn’t allow you to see the reality, that ridiculous mythical 2nd half of the season stat for example, when we lose it’s because it was a tough match or we were done by VAR or some sort of conspiracy theory, when we scrape a win it’s because everyone was amazing and the best thing since sliced bread.

And your support of Arteta (despite your claims otherwise) is very misguided (you’re not the only one either) to the point that you support the ridiculous.

In a way I’m glad your views of me are such because if they weren’t I’d be worried about my opinions tbh.


Your 'required' level is not reality.
You are like a spolied child asking mummy for sweets when she has no money.
You cry when you don't get them and blame mummy.

Arsenal fans who actually understand the game, the club and where we are now will be delighted with top 6 this season.
Very few, like yourself, will continue to cry about it because you have the false belief that we should be challenging for the title every year and 'thrashing' teams home and away all the time. You live in a fantasy world.


It’s reality for ever other big club out there, they don’t aspire to come 6th, that’s just club PR nonsense.

For some reason Arsenal is some sort of exception, when Man U lost Ferguson they went through transition but you never heard them say oh we want to come top 6, no they wanted to win the title and play in the CL and compete.

Likewise Chelsea and Liverpool.

Big clubs have big aspirations, the trouble is for years at this club expectations have been dampened to the point that now we have to be eternally grateful if we make it into the top 6.

It’s losers mentality, winners don’t aspire to come 6th they aim high and try to achieve it.

This club hasn’t done much right in many years but one thing they’ve got spot on is lowering expectations of some fans to the point that they’re grateful with whatever they get.

Weber basically become a club with a losers mentality. Oh and it has nothing to do with understanding the game, it’s to do with being brainwashed by the club over many years into accepting being 2nd rate.

The right person with the right ambition could turn this club around fairly efficiently, if we’d give them enough 160 million to a decent manager we’d already be on our way instead of being stuck in the same place we’ve been for 2 years.

What hurts this club is lack of ambition and it start at the top with an owner who really couldn’t care less what happens on the pitch as long as the share price remains at its level and filters all the way through the club.


Aspiration and 'required standard' are not the same thing.
I want us to win the league every year. I am sure the club want to as well.
The required standard for the players and manager to have a good season is nothing of the sort, however.


Aspiration is what drives standards, if all you hear from is that you don’t want to pin down a position the club expects like Edu did then you can’t move forward, you need targets and ambitious ones at that.

We should be aiming high and this will drive progress and weed out those not good enough to achieve it, it’s clear to me with everything we do that we don’t aspire particularly to be the best, keeping Arteta is a prime example, like I said before any other top club would have got rid and they’d be right to because he simply has not delivered.

What he’s delivered has not been good enough and has not been progress on that basis he should have been replaced, we should now be challenging for top 4 after 2 years that should be our aim, instead we’re now just hoping for top 6, something which wasn’t good enough on the first place and with Arteta is far from a gimme getting that.

The club has no ambition, you’d never see this at Chelsea or Man U or Liverpool, this acceptance that midtable is all we can achieve.
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:32 pm

Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:No it’s isn’t, your agenda is pro Arteta and Edu, no one pro Arsenal would support what we’ve been seeing for the last 2 years, it’s not at the required level for Arsenal.

I just post what comes up, I don’t search for it it comes up, I don’t rate Arteta and don’t like him as manager so yes if I see something that comes up that I think proved that I will post it.

If got no loyalty to him, all I care is how the club does and he’s not delivering so he needs to be sacked, that’s the end of it for me, he’s had his chance and I’m done with him.

All you do is support the absolute rubbish we’ve been putting out, it’s actually people like you that allow the club to get away with underperforming by accepting it and even going as far as hailing it.

We’ve got an owner who doesn’t care, if he’s got a bunch of people who will accept any rubbish we put out he’ll be happy with that as long as he’s not losing money, luckily for him there is a group of people like that and so he can get away with it and doesn’t have to bother changing managers he can just let the same rubbish continue to be churned out.


Nope.
My position has been stated and remains the same - broadly.
Top 6 and at Christmas we need to be not out of the top 4 race - i.e. we've had no horrible runs like we did last mid-Oct to mid-Dec.
If that is not met then get a new manager.
It's not complicated. It's reasonable.

Because you have entrenched yourself so much, from a point you can never climb out, you see anything that is not hyperventilating about how bad everything is as pro-Arteta.

I will always call out the OTT (ridiculous) nonsense I will always be happy when we win any game in the PL, not whining because we didn't win by more.
Right now I am delighted as we've won 2 games on the spin, kept 2 clean sheets and have a chance of really getting ourselves back on track on Sunday. I am also very excited by the prospect of some excellent new signings and what that means for our future.

In short, I am standing on a hill with a telescope, checking immediate surroundings and also looking out to the horizon.
You're 50ft into the ground looking down and still digging.

Your 'required level' for Arsenal is also horsehit - you think we should be thrashing teams in away games in the PL and see a 1-0 away win as a failure.
Arsenal FC has NEVER been at a level where that would be the norm and neither has any other club in this country.



My required level for Arsenal is challenging for the big prizes and being in the CL challenging, like any Arsenal fan, this top 6 BS is nonsense, that should never be our aim but we’ve got a manager who can’t even achieve that anyway. Now of course if I see progress towards that then I would be happy enough, but there isn’t any after 2 years now, so that enough for me and Arteta has had his chance. I don’t believe in him and he’s already confirmed with our worst start ever that he’s still not up to it, no excuses you deal with what’s in front of you and deliver, he hasn’t yet again!

You’re as OTT as the come which is why I and many many others call you out, just look at the Saliba conversation, you just cannot bring yourself to say Arteta has an issue with him despite it being clear, instead you spout out some absolutely BS about training and when people call you up on it you still maintain players are picked on how they trains (which is absolute rubbish btw, it might be true for untested kids but not 30 million signings).

You see yourself as some sort of sheriff of Arsenal when in fact your blind faith doesn’t allow you to see the reality, that ridiculous mythical 2nd half of the season stat for example, when we lose it’s because it was a tough match or we were done by VAR or some sort of conspiracy theory, when we scrape a win it’s because everyone was amazing and the best thing since sliced bread.

And your support of Arteta (despite your claims otherwise) is very misguided (you’re not the only one either) to the point that you support the ridiculous.

In a way I’m glad your views of me are such because if they weren’t I’d be worried about my opinions tbh.


Your 'required' level is not reality.
You are like a spolied child asking mummy for sweets when she has no money.
You cry when you don't get them and blame mummy.

Arsenal fans who actually understand the game, the club and where we are now will be delighted with top 6 this season.
Very few, like yourself, will continue to cry about it because you have the false belief that we should be challenging for the title every year and 'thrashing' teams home and away all the time. You live in a fantasy world.


It’s reality for ever other big club out there, they don’t aspire to come 6th, that’s just club PR nonsense.

For some reason Arsenal is some sort of exception, when Man U lost Ferguson they went through transition but you never heard them say oh we want to come top 6, no they wanted to win the title and play in the CL and compete.

Likewise Chelsea and Liverpool.

Big clubs have big aspirations, the trouble is for years at this club expectations have been dampened to the point that now we have to be eternally grateful if we make it into the top 6.

It’s losers mentality, winners don’t aspire to come 6th they aim high and try to achieve it.

This club hasn’t done much right in many years but one thing they’ve got spot on is lowering expectations of some fans to the point that they’re grateful with whatever they get.

Weber basically become a club with a losers mentality. Oh and it has nothing to do with understanding the game, it’s to do with being brainwashed by the club over many years into accepting being 2nd rate.

The right person with the right ambition could turn this club around fairly efficiently, if we’d give them enough 160 million to a decent manager we’d already be on our way instead of being stuck in the same place we’ve been for 2 years.

What hurts this club is lack of ambition and it start at the top with an owner who really couldn’t care less what happens on the pitch as long as the share price remains at its level and filters all the way through the club.


Aspiration and 'required standard' are not the same thing.
I want us to win the league every year. I am sure the club want to as well.
The required standard for the players and manager to have a good season is nothing of the sort, however.


Aspiration is what drives standards, if all you hear from is that you don’t want to pin down a position the club expects like Edu did then you can’t move forward, you need targets and ambitious ones at that.

We should be aiming high and this will drive progress and weed out those not good enough to achieve it, it’s clear to me with everything we do that we don’t aspire particularly to be the best, keeping Arteta is a prime example, like I said before any other top club would have got rid and they’d be right to because he simply has not delivered.

What he’s delivered has not been good enough and has not been progress on that basis he should have been replaced, we should now be challenging for top 4 after 2 years that should be our aim, instead we’re now just hoping for top 6, something which wasn’t good enough on the first place and with Arteta is far from a gimme getting that.

The club has no ambition, you’d never see this at Chelsea or Man U or Liverpool, this acceptance that midtable is all we can achieve.


What are you on about now?
Aspiring to win the league , hoping we win the league is completely different to setting a standard that we have to win the league to have had a good season. The standard for the manager and the team this year is top 6 and at least a chance of top 4. That represents a good season. Doesn;t mean they won't be trying to win every game and scoring as many goals as possible and conceding as few as possible.

As for Edu and Arteta, they identified targets, the right targets. Seems at this stage they've done a brilliant job on that front.
Players you never heard of , but they had, have turned out to be excellent signings. That is because they know a LOT more than you do about what the club needs to turn aspiration of winning a title to actually winning a title. They also know, as they have said, that there is no 1 season wonder fix to be had. That thinking is for fantasists.
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby theHotHead » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:46 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
He didn't play because he was not good enough for the squad - and therefore was not registered, obviously.

Jay your argument is so full of holes. Managers come in, he doesn't take a fancy to the previous manager's players, he drops them /gets rid of them. It happens every season in every country. You are basically saying that when a new manager takes over a club, if he drops a player its because he isn't good enough. That is rubbish. Ancelotti didn't fancy Ozil and sold him from Real Madrid, are you saying he was sold without even playing a game for Ancelotti because he wasn't good enough ?! :lol:

There are countless examples of the same, lets put an end to this particular argument please :arse fan:

Arteta doesn't fancy Saliba, he got rid of him ....... far far far more plausible than Saliba was rubbish in training LOL.


Ozil was an established pro and there was no need to understand any more about him. Ancelotti did not want him for the system he was going t play. Simple.
Saliba is a kid with no experience at the level of the PL.
Quite obviously he is going to be assessed BEFORE he is given a start for the first team, like every other kid.
The mistake you've made is that you have fallen into the trap of seeing Saliba as anything but a kid starting out in the game because we paid 27m for him. We got conned on the deal - very suspicious too as it came from the same avenue as Pepe for 73m.
ESR went on loan too. So do countless other kids... because they are not quite ready to be thrown into the PL.
Assessing when they are ready comes from training, U23 matches and how they do on loan.
Always been that way with kids coming through the ranks and always will be.

Aaah so when the same argument doesn't fit your narrative, its "different". Saliba was a pro, not an apprentice, he had played 2 Ligue 1 seasons with St Etienne before he came to us, he has was a highly sought after young defender who we bought for a whopping £27m because he was so sought after by many clubs. And you are trying to say then that a player at that level came to Arsenal and was deemed "not good enough" in training ?!!!!
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:51 pm

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
He didn't play because he was not good enough for the squad - and therefore was not registered, obviously.

Jay your argument is so full of holes. Managers come in, he doesn't take a fancy to the previous manager's players, he drops them /gets rid of them. It happens every season in every country. You are basically saying that when a new manager takes over a club, if he drops a player its because he isn't good enough. That is rubbish. Ancelotti didn't fancy Ozil and sold him from Real Madrid, are you saying he was sold without even playing a game for Ancelotti because he wasn't good enough ?! :lol:

There are countless examples of the same, lets put an end to this particular argument please :arse fan:

Arteta doesn't fancy Saliba, he got rid of him ....... far far far more plausible than Saliba was rubbish in training LOL.


Ozil was an established pro and there was no need to understand any more about him. Ancelotti did not want him for the system he was going t play. Simple.
Saliba is a kid with no experience at the level of the PL.
Quite obviously he is going to be assessed BEFORE he is given a start for the first team, like every other kid.
The mistake you've made is that you have fallen into the trap of seeing Saliba as anything but a kid starting out in the game because we paid 27m for him. We got conned on the deal - very suspicious too as it came from the same avenue as Pepe for 73m.
ESR went on loan too. So do countless other kids... because they are not quite ready to be thrown into the PL.
Assessing when they are ready comes from training, U23 matches and how they do on loan.
Always been that way with kids coming through the ranks and always will be.

Aaah so when the same argument doesn't fit your narrative, its "different". Saliba was a pro, not an apprentice, he had played 2 Ligue 1 seasons with St Etienne before he came to us, he has was a highly sought after young defender who we bought for a whopping £27m because he was so sought after by many clubs. And you are trying to say then that a player at that level came to Arsenal and was deemed "not good enough" in training ?!!!!


He was 18 years old, not a 25-year-old world cup winning world-class player.
The comparison is dreadful.

You can go on thinking that Arteta 'had it in for him' for some reason, but an 18yr old kid not making the squad and being loaned out to get better is par for the course.
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby theHotHead » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:41 pm

Seeing as you are Mr Arsenal Jay, here are articles from the official Arsenal website that discuss William Saliba's ability:

https://www.arsenal.com/news/analysis-depth-look-saliba

https://www.arsenal.com/news/team-news-saliba-chambers-leno-and-more
William Saliba

Integrating well since joining in the close season.

Fully fit and available for selection.


https://www.arsenal.com/news/i-want-protect-saliba-and-his-future-us

07 Jan 2021 - quotes from Arteta
“He is going to a really strong league as well, a league he knows really well, he has experience [there] and he needs to play as many games as possible to be ready for us from next season.

“He will come back for pre-season and he will be with us, and hopefully he will come back after playing a number of games and [with] his performances raising and his development progressing in the right way. That is why we made that decision.

“I know that sometimes it is difficult to explain or understand after the money the club spent bringing him in, sending him on loan, but a lot of things have happened to him, he is a long-term player for us and we need to protect him as well. Giving him three or four games is not enough for him, he needs much more than that but what has happened over the past 18 months, he has gone through some personal problems as well that we have to try to help him, and stay as close as possible to him, and now he needs to play, play and play and enjoy his profession as well.

“In order for him to do that I think we have found the right club with him, he is very happy to go there right now and hopefully he can enjoy his football and be ready for us next season.”



So, the French league is STRONG says Arteta, thats why Saliba went there, contradicts your opinion Jay. He will come back after playing a number of games with his performances raised and his development progressing the right way. He won Nice player of the month weeks after joining and was shortlisted for the fans Ligue 1 team of the season ! So why did Arteta blank him again in the summer ?! Arteta himself said hypothetically 4 games is not enough, I say hypothetically because he only played 2, you need more games to get prepared for a new club, a new league. Fine. The player said:
When they came back I played in two friendlies, but I wasn’t ready, I hadn’t played for six months. I had no preparation and to pick up rhythm, you need to play matches.

“The coach told me I wasn’t ready, I thought: ‘That’s normal, these were just two matches and I hadn’t played for six months.’

“After that I waited for my chance, I waited for him to play me more to get a rhythm. But that’s football, it’s like that, it’s behind me and I took the experience.”

Now, when a player is unfit for whatever reason, he needs games. If Saliba had been recovering from long term injury he would've played a number of U23 games then got called up to the first team and made a few sub appearances, increasing in time on the pitch each game. Arteta said he needed games, why send him to France which isn't going to give him the experience he should be getting anyway ?! Surely send him to another Prem club. That decision makes no sense whatsoever. Give him plenty of U23 games so he gets accustomed to English football then when his fitness is right he can be integrated back into the first team. They are the "low/no risk" games he should've been having, not going back to France showing us nothing new whatsoever !!

Emery on the purchase:
Many teams wanted him but he decided he wanted to come to us and be part of our future


Taken from the Daily Star:
The player apparently favours a move to Arsenal over signing for Pep Guardiola’s side.

However, City are the only interested club in England able to spend £25m now on a player who won’t join their first-team squad until the 2020/21 season.


Taken from the MEtro:
Arsenal are reportedly preparing to do battle with Manchester United for Saint-Etienne star William Saliba in the summer transfer window.


He was a highly rated young player, thats the reason why he was bought for £27m. Any notion that he wasn't good enough to displace any number of CBs we had at the time is pure nonsense. Arteta chose not to give him games.
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby Salibatelli » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:41 pm

The French league is decent, no doubt about that, the only ones trying to discredit it are those trying to do undermine Saliba, so many top players have come from there and there are many others currently there.

As for Arteta clearly he wasn’t honest about bringing him back as not only did he not, he bought someone else. It’s clearly a personal issue and nothing to do with this training or U23 nonsense.

Saliba is plenty good enough for the PL and to play for us. I reckon he’s got the potential to be a top CB, we need Arteta to get the boot for that happen with us though.

I sincerely hope he does so we get to see Saliba in an Arsenal shirt.
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:43 pm

Özim wrote:The French league is decent, no doubt about that, the only ones trying to discredit it are those trying to do undermine Saliba, so many top players have come from there and there are many others currently there.

As for Arteta clearly he wasn’t honest about bringing him back as not only did he not, he bought someone else. It’s clearly a personal issue and nothing to do with this training or U23 nonsense.

Saliba is plenty good enough for the PL and to play for us. I reckon he’s got the potential to be a top CB, we need Arteta to get the boot for that happen with us though.

I sincerely hope he does so we get to see Saliba in an Arsenal shirt.



Undermine Saliba?????????
OK to undermine the entire club, though. :doh:

He's a kid who is on loan in a weaker league to try and get ready for the big time in the PL.
Let's hope he does because it is good for everyone.
If he does make it, then the credit goes to Arteta for not exposing him too early to the difficulty of the PL and properly nurturing his career.
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby Salibatelli » Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:17 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:The French league is decent, no doubt about that, the only ones trying to discredit it are those trying to do undermine Saliba, so many top players have come from there and there are many others currently there.

As for Arteta clearly he wasn’t honest about bringing him back as not only did he not, he bought someone else. It’s clearly a personal issue and nothing to do with this training or U23 nonsense.

Saliba is plenty good enough for the PL and to play for us. I reckon he’s got the potential to be a top CB, we need Arteta to get the boot for that happen with us though.

I sincerely hope he does so we get to see Saliba in an Arsenal shirt.



Undermine Saliba?????????
OK to undermine the entire club, though. :doh:

He's a kid who is on loan in a weaker league to try and get ready for the big time in the PL.
Let's hope he does because it is good for everyone.
If he does make it, then the credit goes to Arteta for not exposing him too early to the difficulty of the PL and properly nurturing his career.


Saliba is just a young players we bought with a lot of talent, he’s so far delivering everything expected but the manager won’t give him a shot.

The club has a load of incompetent people running it, they deserve the criticism, this isn’t a new thing it’s gone on for years, the owner doesn’t care so consequently we have to put up with sub standard staff for much longer than any other big club, as I said Arteta at any other big club would have been sacked, so he and the club deserve all criticism for poor decision making and poor performance.

I don’t feel bad, this is a club that sacked
55 regular employees during a pandemic and a mascot that had worked for them for decades all whilst paying Willian 100s of thousands a week!

He’s ready now, he’s proved it time and time again, Arteta won’t give him a chance though, HH posted Artetas own quotes saying he’s going out on loan for 6 months but will be back for this season, then he again has no interest in giving him a chance and signs someone else and sends him on loan again.

You need to wake up, Saliba is far better than certainly 3 of the players we’ve played at CB this season and yet they get to stay and play and get new contracts in some cases whilst he get not a sniff of a chance.

The whole thing is a joke and reflects very very badly on Arteta, the guy doesn’t help himself, his actions and words are embarrassing to be honest.

Let’s clear this up, Arteta gets zero credit, he’s run down 2 years of his contract thus far and we’ve not got a game out of our 27 million signing!
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby theHotHead » Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:54 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:The French league is decent, no doubt about that, the only ones trying to discredit it are those trying to do undermine Saliba, so many top players have come from there and there are many others currently there.

As for Arteta clearly he wasn’t honest about bringing him back as not only did he not, he bought someone else. It’s clearly a personal issue and nothing to do with this training or U23 nonsense.

Saliba is plenty good enough for the PL and to play for us. I reckon he’s got the potential to be a top CB, we need Arteta to get the boot for that happen with us though.

I sincerely hope he does so we get to see Saliba in an Arsenal shirt.



Undermine Saliba?????????
OK to undermine the entire club, though. :doh:

He's a kid who is on loan in a weaker league to try and get ready for the big time in the PL.
Let's hope he does because it is good for everyone.
If he does make it, then the credit goes to Arteta for not exposing him too early to the difficulty of the PL and properly nurturing his career.

Jay, explain to me how loaning Saliba to a French team benefits us.
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:17 pm

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:The French league is decent, no doubt about that, the only ones trying to discredit it are those trying to do undermine Saliba, so many top players have come from there and there are many others currently there.

As for Arteta clearly he wasn’t honest about bringing him back as not only did he not, he bought someone else. It’s clearly a personal issue and nothing to do with this training or U23 nonsense.

Saliba is plenty good enough for the PL and to play for us. I reckon he’s got the potential to be a top CB, we need Arteta to get the boot for that happen with us though.

I sincerely hope he does so we get to see Saliba in an Arsenal shirt.



Undermine Saliba?????????
OK to undermine the entire club, though. :doh:

He's a kid who is on loan in a weaker league to try and get ready for the big time in the PL.
Let's hope he does because it is good for everyone.
If he does make it, then the credit goes to Arteta for not exposing him too early to the difficulty of the PL and properly nurturing his career.

Jay, explain to me how loaning Saliba to a French team benefits us.


It was Saliba's choice to go to a French team. He didn't want to go to a PL team. Could have been homesick, could have just been struggling, could be a very self-aware young man and knew he needed more time. Who knows?
I would have preferred he went to a PL team or stayed with us, but he didn't... and now he just needs to work on his game for Marseille.
It serves no purpose at all to use the guy to score Arteta bad points - if anything it is just going to make it harder on him when/if he comes back. Because the way he's being talked up - totally unjustified - is going to make the expectation that he's Van Dijk level from day 1. The same people playing games to score points now will be the ones blaming the next manager or Arteta (if he is still here) if Saliba comes back and is not brilliant.
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby swipe right » Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:20 am

Arteta...
Sold Martinez
Bought Willian
Loaned Saliba
Benched Martinelli

He’s a bundle of bad ideas.
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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby theHotHead » Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:52 am

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:The French league is decent, no doubt about that, the only ones trying to discredit it are those trying to do undermine Saliba, so many top players have come from there and there are many others currently there.

As for Arteta clearly he wasn’t honest about bringing him back as not only did he not, he bought someone else. It’s clearly a personal issue and nothing to do with this training or U23 nonsense.

Saliba is plenty good enough for the PL and to play for us. I reckon he’s got the potential to be a top CB, we need Arteta to get the boot for that happen with us though.

I sincerely hope he does so we get to see Saliba in an Arsenal shirt.



Undermine Saliba?????????
OK to undermine the entire club, though. :doh:

He's a kid who is on loan in a weaker league to try and get ready for the big time in the PL.
Let's hope he does because it is good for everyone.
If he does make it, then the credit goes to Arteta for not exposing him too early to the difficulty of the PL and properly nurturing his career.

Jay, explain to me how loaning Saliba to a French team benefits us.


It was Saliba's choice to go to a French team. He didn't want to go to a PL team. Could have been homesick, could have just been struggling, could be a very self-aware young man and knew he needed more time. Who knows?
I would have preferred he went to a PL team or stayed with us, but he didn't... and now he just needs to work on his game for Marseille.
It serves no purpose at all to use the guy to score Arteta bad points - if anything it is just going to make it harder on him when/if he comes back. Because the way he's being talked up - totally unjustified - is going to make the expectation that he's Van Dijk level from day 1. The same people playing games to score points now will be the ones blaming the next manager or Arteta (if he is still here) if Saliba comes back and is not brilliant.

Not according to the Arsenal website. An interview with Edu states:

Technical director Edu said: “William Saliba is a player with a huge amount of talent and potential. We’re confident he will have a great career with us but we must remember that he is still only 19 years old and has a lot of time ahead of him.

"William experienced a very challenging time last year, with his playing time limited by injury and the early ending of the Ligue 1 season due to the pandemic.

"So together with William, we have decided that spending the rest of the season on loan with Nice is the best way for him to develop. We will be keeping in close contact with William during his time with Nice and look forward to seeing him make good progress until the end of the season.”


An interview with Arteta states:
“In order for him to do that I think we have found the right club with him, he is very happy to go there right now and hopefully he can enjoy his football and be ready for us next season.”

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Re: Ben White (4)

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:21 pm

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:The French league is decent, no doubt about that, the only ones trying to discredit it are those trying to do undermine Saliba, so many top players have come from there and there are many others currently there.

As for Arteta clearly he wasn’t honest about bringing him back as not only did he not, he bought someone else. It’s clearly a personal issue and nothing to do with this training or U23 nonsense.

Saliba is plenty good enough for the PL and to play for us. I reckon he’s got the potential to be a top CB, we need Arteta to get the boot for that happen with us though.

I sincerely hope he does so we get to see Saliba in an Arsenal shirt.



Undermine Saliba?????????
OK to undermine the entire club, though. :doh:

He's a kid who is on loan in a weaker league to try and get ready for the big time in the PL.
Let's hope he does because it is good for everyone.
If he does make it, then the credit goes to Arteta for not exposing him too early to the difficulty of the PL and properly nurturing his career.

Jay, explain to me how loaning Saliba to a French team benefits us.


It was Saliba's choice to go to a French team. He didn't want to go to a PL team. Could have been homesick, could have just been struggling, could be a very self-aware young man and knew he needed more time. Who knows?
I would have preferred he went to a PL team or stayed with us, but he didn't... and now he just needs to work on his game for Marseille.
It serves no purpose at all to use the guy to score Arteta bad points - if anything it is just going to make it harder on him when/if he comes back. Because the way he's being talked up - totally unjustified - is going to make the expectation that he's Van Dijk level from day 1. The same people playing games to score points now will be the ones blaming the next manager or Arteta (if he is still here) if Saliba comes back and is not brilliant.

Not according to the Arsenal website. An interview with Edu states:

Technical director Edu said: “William Saliba is a player with a huge amount of talent and potential. We’re confident he will have a great career with us but we must remember that he is still only 19 years old and has a lot of time ahead of him.

"William experienced a very challenging time last year, with his playing time limited by injury and the early ending of the Ligue 1 season due to the pandemic.

"So together with William, we have decided that spending the rest of the season on loan with Nice is the best way for him to develop. We will be keeping in close contact with William during his time with Nice and look forward to seeing him make good progress until the end of the season.”


An interview with Arteta states:
“In order for him to do that I think we have found the right club with him, he is very happy to go there right now and hopefully he can enjoy his football and be ready for us next season.”



The first comment is from the previous loan.

For the last word on it, listen to Saliba himself:

William Saliba on Marseille loan move: “Arsenal preferred that I go to England but I knew this was the right choice.”
At his official presentation in front of the press this afternoon, centre-back William Saliba explained his decision to join Marseille on loan, indicating that it had been a personal decision to return to France.

His words transcribed in Eurosport, the French defender explained that he had been quickly won over by the OM project after speaking to manager Jorge Sampaoli and president Pablo Longoria.

Saliba had spent last season on loan at Nice, having been at Saint-Étienne the campaign before. The youth international had been loaned back to his first club by Arsenal after a €30m move, and has since yet to break into the Gunners’ first team.

Despite his parent club favouring a move to England, Saliba has revealed that he had pushed to remain in France for the season to come.

“I’m the one who chose to go to Marseille, they [Arsenal] preferred that I go to England, but I knew that coming here was the right choice, so I really pushed for this.”

“I spoke with the coach [Jorge Sampaoli] and Pablo [Longoria, OM president], and I was quickly convinced.”

“I’m young, I’m 20 and I haven’t proven anything yet. I still have many aspects to fix and areas in which I can progress.”


In addition, read the last comment from Saliba himself.
I do not have a problem with him, only those that are using him to gin up their agenda.
The kid himself seems to have a good head on his shoulders and knows he's not the finished article yet.
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