Creativity & Chance Conversion

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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby theHotHead » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:12 pm

Thanks Jay, good work brohem !

The table tells us that only wolves have a worse conversion rate for shots better than or equal to 0.1xG and Burnley, Southampton, Wolves, Norwich and Newcastle are just as shite as us for converting shots less than 0.1xG.

The manager has got it all wrong, unless you are gonna tell me our squad is now the worst squad in the league ......
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:20 pm

theHotHead wrote:Thanks Jay, good work brohem !

The table tells us that only wolves have a worse conversion rate for shots better than or equal to 0.1xG and Burnley, Southampton, Wolves, Norwich and Newcastle are just as shite as us for converting shots less than 0.1xG.

The manager has got it all wrong, unless you are gonna tell me our squad is now the worst squad in the league ......


Yes our conversion rate is pants.
Not sure what the manager can do there.

The area Arteta should be focusing on is that we are only 9th in creating those chances greater or equal to 0.1xG
That could be down to a lot of factors but I suspect it's because we're not making good decisions on the ball. Too safe.
Could also be simply down to confidence - which will come I hope.
Last edited by jayramfootball on Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby theHotHead » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:08 pm

What we can all see is our play is too predictable and I mean predictable as in easy to stop/defend against. We all know what Libverpool are going to do but good luck trying to stop them from doing it. Our build up is too slow, our gameplan is wrong - get the ball wide and sling it in to a non-existent CF who won't convert anything. Its why don't create many good chances.
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:23 pm

theHotHead wrote:What we can all see is our play is too predictable and I mean predictable as in easy to stop/defend against. We all know what Libverpool are going to do but good luck trying to stop them from doing it. Our build up is too slow, our gameplan is wrong - get the ball wide and sling it in to a non-existent CF who won't convert anything. Its why don't create many good chances.


Plenty of time for getting these things improving.
Just to give you some context, in 2011/12 we started with 2 losses and a draw... including getting spanked by Utd 8-2.
Next game, ironically, we won 1-0 vs Swansea and lost 2 of the next 3 after signing a bunch of new players.
We were on 7 points after 7 games.

We finished 3rd.
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby swipe right » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:20 am

To improve our transition play we should be taking a chance on playing Charlie Patino in central midfield. Take a look at him here.
https://youtu.be/LJMDYG_4Xsc
He’s got vision, creativity, passing range, doesn’t hang on to the ball long. Can also keep the ball and win it back. If we are building a squad of young players coming through the academy, than he should get a serious look. He’s also older than Cesc or Jack were when they debuted and closest to them in terms of style of play.
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby theHotHead » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:15 am

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:What we can all see is our play is too predictable and I mean predictable as in easy to stop/defend against. We all know what Libverpool are going to do but good luck trying to stop them from doing it. Our build up is too slow, our gameplan is wrong - get the ball wide and sling it in to a non-existent CF who won't convert anything. Its why don't create many good chances.


Plenty of time for getting these things improving.
Just to give you some context, in 2011/12 we started with 2 losses and a draw... including getting spanked by Utd 8-2.
Next game, ironically, we won 1-0 vs Swansea and lost 2 of the next 3 after signing a bunch of new players.
We were on 7 points after 7 games.

We finished 3rd.

Jay, there is not plenty of time for getting things right, in the 2 years he has been in chanrge he has got things right for the first 6 months only, everything else he has gotten wrong ! How lonmg does he need ? Tuchel came in - bam - Chelsea are firing. Ok you will argue they already had a good squad. Benitez went to Everton - bam - immediately joint top of the table thus far. The arguments and excuses made for Arteta are tiresome, tiresome and false, how much more evidence do we need to see that Arteta is utter pap??

The reason we are creating shit chances is because the manager has adopting shit tactics and a system not suited to the players. Yu can't blame the players because half of them are Arteta';s signings and the other half he is not being forced to play (Kola, Xhaka, Elneny, AMN, etc) but he chose to keep them and he chooses to play them.

How can anyone look at the quality of chances and the nunber we have converted in the table you provided and come to any other conclusion than Arteta is a dufus ? He is being outperformed by almost every other manager in the league, but people keep diverting the blame to everything else.
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:58 am

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:What we can all see is our play is too predictable and I mean predictable as in easy to stop/defend against. We all know what Libverpool are going to do but good luck trying to stop them from doing it. Our build up is too slow, our gameplan is wrong - get the ball wide and sling it in to a non-existent CF who won't convert anything. Its why don't create many good chances.


Plenty of time for getting these things improving.
Just to give you some context, in 2011/12 we started with 2 losses and a draw... including getting spanked by Utd 8-2.
Next game, ironically, we won 1-0 vs Swansea and lost 2 of the next 3 after signing a bunch of new players.
We were on 7 points after 7 games.

We finished 3rd.

Jay, there is not plenty of time for getting things right, in the 2 years he has been in chanrge he has got things right for the first 6 months only, everything else he has gotten wrong ! How lonmg does he need ? Tuchel came in - bam - Chelsea are firing. Ok you will argue they already had a good squad. Benitez went to Everton - bam - immediately joint top of the table thus far. The arguments and excuses made for Arteta are tiresome, tiresome and false, how much more evidence do we need to see that Arteta is utter pap??

The reason we are creating shit chances is because the manager has adopting shit tactics and a system not suited to the players. Yu can't blame the players because half of them are Arteta';s signings and the other half he is not being forced to play (Kola, Xhaka, Elneny, AMN, etc) but he chose to keep them and he chooses to play them.

How can anyone look at the quality of chances and the nunber we have converted in the table you provided and come to any other conclusion than Arteta is a dufus ? He is being outperformed by almost every other manager in the league, but people keep diverting the blame to everything else.



I grow tired of hearing about 'this manager came in and bam'. Firstly it's not Arsenal, secondly it's more often than not that new managers make f**k all difference other than a new manager bounce,

Everton have played 4 games - we'll finish above them again. Heard it all last year with Ancelotti.
Hearing the same with Nuno, even though Spurs have been shite.

There are a combination of issues to solve; creating better chances (possibly tactics, but not necessarily) and also finishing. Not tactics.

As always the challenge begins with the players.
We created I think 7 chances with an xG of >0.1 against Norwich and there would have been even better chances created but for some poor decision making by the players. Example - ESR twice could have rolled a player in for a massive chance but instead opted shoot on one occasion and on the other played the wrong pass. This is nothing to do with tactics, it's decision making and execution on the pitch.

Against Brentford we got into some great positions and the final ball was f***ing dreadful. That is why we didn't create great chances in that game, not because of tactics. Then the few half decent chances we did create, we scored none of them.

Against Chelsea , Holding missed a bloody brilliant chance that would have made the game up for grabs. The other ssue with the Chelsea is that we had our best players out in defence and the ones we had to play were awful.

City was the only game where I thought we made a massive selection error - with that horrible defence and then after Xhaka made a huge f**k up we had no chance.

We have our players back and fit now, so lets see if we can continue to pick up points.

There are some issues for Arteta to solve/get right - like not playing Kola in a back 3!... and not playing Xhaka ahead of Lokonga, for example. Selection is where he needs to get it right. I see no major issue with the tactics other than the need to settle on a first 11 and formation for the vast majority of our games.

My assessment of Arteta will remain largely based on the teams he picks. This big debate about tactics makes me chuckle a bit - as if the fans have some great insight into what tactics we're even adopting, never mind those we should adopt. Generally, they don't. It's just a generic talking point. We lost....tic tacs. Does my head in.
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby theHotHead » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:28 am

At no point did we get the "new manager bounce" with Arteta. Those other managers are respected managers with a history of knowing what they are doing, thats why they got it.

How can it be that we get no new manager bounce, we get no improvement in football - in fact we get a reduction in the quality of football, we create the shittest chances, top players drastically fall out of form. 2 years in nobody has a clue where we are supposed to be headed and we are further from challenging for top 4 than we have been in decades. The position we find ourselves in is an absolute joke ! Why did we need to take so many steps back to go forward ?

You just need to look at Benitez and you can see progress, how can other managers make progress right away but we have to make excuses for Arteta 2 years later ?!!!
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:12 pm

theHotHead wrote:At no point did we get the "new manager bounce" with Arteta. Those other managers are respected managers with a history of knowing what they are doing, thats why they got it.

How can it be that we get no new manager bounce, we get no improvement in football - in fact we get a reduction in the quality of football, we create the shittest chances, top players drastically fall out of form. 2 years in nobody has a clue where we are supposed to be headed and we are further from challenging for top 4 than we have been in decades. The position we find ourselves in is an absolute joke ! Why did we need to take so many steps back to go forward ?

You just need to look at Benitez and you can see progress, how can other managers make progress right away but we have to make excuses for Arteta 2 years later ?!!!



Let's see where Everton and Arsenal finish.
My money is on us, just as it was when people were bigging up Ancelotti.
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby theHotHead » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:22 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:At no point did we get the "new manager bounce" with Arteta. Those other managers are respected managers with a history of knowing what they are doing, thats why they got it.

How can it be that we get no new manager bounce, we get no improvement in football - in fact we get a reduction in the quality of football, we create the shittest chances, top players drastically fall out of form. 2 years in nobody has a clue where we are supposed to be headed and we are further from challenging for top 4 than we have been in decades. The position we find ourselves in is an absolute joke ! Why did we need to take so many steps back to go forward ?

You just need to look at Benitez and you can see progress, how can other managers make progress right away but we have to make excuses for Arteta 2 years later ?!!!



Let's see where Everton and Arsenal finish.
My money is on us, just as it was when people were bigging up Ancelotti.

Arsenal finishing above Everton is no proof that Arteta is better or that Arteta has done better than Benitez ! Arsenal are supposed to finish above Everton, Arsenal are the bigger club. The point is Arteta hasn't given us any form of good form, for all of Arteta's great 5 months we went from 15th to 8th ! Arteta doesn't need to just finish above Everton, he needs to finish way above them with a considerable amount of additional points.

if you want to put "Everton" into perspective in relation to Arsenal, with regard to recent history, standing and expectation, since Wenger joined Arsenal here are Everton's Premier League finishing positions:

15, 17, 14, 13, 16, 15, 7, 17, 4, 11, 6, 5, 5, 8, 7, 7, 6, 5, 11, 11, 7, 8, 8, 12, 10.

So in 25 years their best period was 8 years when they finished between 5th and 8th, so they were a top 8 team.

In the last 10 years Everton have spent £656.44m on players, in that same time Arsenal spent £907.91m. Everton are NOT our peers, they are not on our level, we have to do more than Everton just to match them.
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby ag6789 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:52 pm

Yes, success yardstick for Arteta, or for that matter any Arsenal manager should be-
1. CL qualification.
2. Domestic cup success
3. League title
4. Deep CL run
5. CL success.
At this point Atrteta's primary goal should be 1& 2.
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby Est83 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:34 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:What we can all see is our play is too predictable and I mean predictable as in easy to stop/defend against. We all know what Libverpool are going to do but good luck trying to stop them from doing it. Our build up is too slow, our gameplan is wrong - get the ball wide and sling it in to a non-existent CF who won't convert anything. Its why don't create many good chances.


Plenty of time for getting these things improving.
Just to give you some context, in 2011/12 we started with 2 losses and a draw... including getting spanked by Utd 8-2.
Next game, ironically, we won 1-0 vs Swansea and lost 2 of the next 3 after signing a bunch of new players.
We were on 7 points after 7 games.

We finished 3rd.

Jay, there is not plenty of time for getting things right, in the 2 years he has been in chanrge he has got things right for the first 6 months only, everything else he has gotten wrong ! How lonmg does he need ? Tuchel came in - bam - Chelsea are firing. Ok you will argue they already had a good squad. Benitez went to Everton - bam - immediately joint top of the table thus far. The arguments and excuses made for Arteta are tiresome, tiresome and false, how much more evidence do we need to see that Arteta is utter pap??

The reason we are creating shit chances is because the manager has adopting shit tactics and a system not suited to the players. Yu can't blame the players because half of them are Arteta';s signings and the other half he is not being forced to play (Kola, Xhaka, Elneny, AMN, etc) but he chose to keep them and he chooses to play them.

How can anyone look at the quality of chances and the nunber we have converted in the table you provided and come to any other conclusion than Arteta is a dufus ? He is being outperformed by almost every other manager in the league, but people keep diverting the blame to everything else.



I grow tired of hearing about 'this manager came in and bam'. Firstly it's not Arsenal, secondly it's more often than not that new managers make f**k all difference other than a new manager bounce,

Everton have played 4 games - we'll finish above them again. Heard it all last year with Ancelotti.
Hearing the same with Nuno, even though Spurs have been shite.

There are a combination of issues to solve; creating better chances (possibly tactics, but not necessarily) and also finishing. Not tactics.

As always the challenge begins with the players.
We created I think 7 chances with an xG of >0.1 against Norwich and there would have been even better chances created but for some poor decision making by the players. Example - ESR twice could have rolled a player in for a massive chance but instead opted shoot on one occasion and on the other played the wrong pass. This is nothing to do with tactics, it's decision making and execution on the pitch.

Against Brentford we got into some great positions and the final ball was f***ing dreadful. That is why we didn't create great chances in that game, not because of tactics. Then the few half decent chances we did create, we scored none of them.

Against Chelsea , Holding missed a bloody brilliant chance that would have made the game up for grabs. The other ssue with the Chelsea is that we had our best players out in defence and the ones we had to play were awful.

City was the only game where I thought we made a massive selection error - with that horrible defence and then after Xhaka made a huge f**k up we had no chance.

We have our players back and fit now, so lets see if we can continue to pick up points.

There are some issues for Arteta to solve/get right - like not playing Kola in a back 3!... and not playing Xhaka ahead of Lokonga, for example. Selection is where he needs to get it right. I see no major issue with the tactics other than the need to settle on a first 11 and formation for the vast majority of our games.

My assessment of Arteta will remain largely based on the teams he picks. This big debate about tactics makes me chuckle a bit - as if the fans have some great insight into what tactics we're even adopting, never mind those we should adopt. Generally, they don't. It's just a generic talking point. We lost....tic tacs. Does my head in.


Agree with this.
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby Power n Glory » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:02 pm

My assessment of Arteta will remain largely based on the teams he picks. This big debate about tactics makes me chuckle a bit - as if the fans have some great insight into what tactics we're even adopting, never mind those we should adopt. Generally, they don't. It's just a generic talking point. We lost....tic tacs. Does my head in.


Is it possible that you're projecting your own difficulties understanding the tactical side of the game and maybe why you tend to resort to this pure data approach of numbers and figures?
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby jayramfootball » Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:12 am

Power n Glory wrote:
My assessment of Arteta will remain largely based on the teams he picks. This big debate about tactics makes me chuckle a bit - as if the fans have some great insight into what tactics we're even adopting, never mind those we should adopt. Generally, they don't. It's just a generic talking point. We lost....tic tacs. Does my head in.


Is it possible that you're projecting your own difficulties understanding the tactical side of the game and maybe why you tend to resort to this pure data approach of numbers and figures?


No.
I am 100 percent certain that very very few people here have the first f***ing clue about the tactical side of the game. You included. I am sure you've played a lot of football manager, though... And FIFA.
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Re: Creativity & Chance Conversion

Postby Power n Glory » Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:51 am

jayramfootball wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
My assessment of Arteta will remain largely based on the teams he picks. This big debate about tactics makes me chuckle a bit - as if the fans have some great insight into what tactics we're even adopting, never mind those we should adopt. Generally, they don't. It's just a generic talking point. We lost....tic tacs. Does my head in.


Is it possible that you're projecting your own difficulties understanding the tactical side of the game and maybe why you tend to resort to this pure data approach of numbers and figures?


No.
I am 100 percent certain that very very few people here have the first f***ing clue about the tactical side of the game. You included. I am sure you've played a lot of football manager, though... And FIFA.


Of course. If you're 100% certain people on here don't have a clue on the tactical side, why not challenge their opinion with your take on what's happening tactically and back it up with research and opinions from those that have the experience?

Also, I don't know a football fan that hasn't played Fifa, Pro Evo, Football manager or didn’t play football at any level in their youth. That's not an insult to me. When really young, we read the football comics like Roy of the Rovers, Hot Shot Hamish...I consume everything football and nowadays my body is too old to play, so I listen to a lot of football related podcasts, read articles, books, videos...whatever way I can consume and engage with football and learn more from those that know a heck of a lot more than me. I'm all in.
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