Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:54 am

EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Our 2021 form is good. It's a factual statement not open for debate. Also not open for debate is the fact that the club do care about it. As a fan of this club, I am hopeful it brings some confidence and helps continue our run for the rest of the year and we're in good shape come Christmas time with a decent chance to push on. :



Our 2021 form would not have made top four - that is a fact - these are the points per game for just 2021

City 2.5
Utd 1.95
West Ham 1.91
Chelsea 1.9
Arsenal 1.86

So whilst you can say are form was good so what? are you saying that West Ham will be better than us next season? or that Liverpool will be worse? simply based on the second half of last season? are you sure about that?

Right now every pundit, AI-bot, journalist has us somewhere between 5th and 10th in their predictions ... sadly that's about right.

One of the biggest perceived weaknesses is our inexperienced manager and our very unbalanced squad ... whilst the squad can and we hope will be improved, Arteta needs another three or four seasons to gain that experience he should have gained before we ever signed him ....

Those are the facts - having a decent run when other sides were focusing on CL or Domestic Cups - sorry that's just smoke and mirrors.


Good post.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:27 am

jayramfootball wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Our 2021 form is good. It's a factual statement not open for debate. Also not open for debate is the fact that the club do care about it. As a fan of this club, I am hopeful it brings some confidence and helps continue our run for the rest of the year and we're in good shape come Christmas time with a decent chance to push on. :



Our 2021 form would not have made top four - that is a fact - these are the points per game for just 2021

City 2.5
Utd 1.95
West Ham 1.91
Chelsea 1.9
Arsenal 1.86

So whilst you can say are form was good so what? are you saying that West Ham will be better than us next season? or that Liverpool will be worse? simply based on the second half of last season? are you sure about that?

Right now every pundit, AI-bot, journalist has us somewhere between 5th and 10th in their predictions ... sadly that's about right.

One of the biggest perceived weaknesses is our inexperienced manager and our very unbalanced squad ... whilst the squad can and we hope will be improved, Arteta needs another three or four seasons to gain that experience he should have gained before we ever signed him ....

Those are the facts - having a decent run when other sides were focusing on CL or Domestic Cups - sorry that's just smoke and mirrors.


5th would be a good season.
It would show good progress.
Top 4 would be great, but i always thought it would take 3-5 years and a squad overhaul to be regular top 4 contenders again.

As for what I am saying, I have made that clear on several occasions.
That we are in good form in 2021 so far does not mean it will continue. Of course not. Never said that.

I said that I hope we continue our good form and I think there is reason to believe we will.

3-5 years for top four. Wenger just choked on his champagne.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:49 am

swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Our 2021 form is good. It's a factual statement not open for debate. Also not open for debate is the fact that the club do care about it. As a fan of this club, I am hopeful it brings some confidence and helps continue our run for the rest of the year and we're in good shape come Christmas time with a decent chance to push on. :



Our 2021 form would not have made top four - that is a fact - these are the points per game for just 2021

City 2.5
Utd 1.95
West Ham 1.91
Chelsea 1.9
Arsenal 1.86

So whilst you can say are form was good so what? are you saying that West Ham will be better than us next season? or that Liverpool will be worse? simply based on the second half of last season? are you sure about that?

Right now every pundit, AI-bot, journalist has us somewhere between 5th and 10th in their predictions ... sadly that's about right.

One of the biggest perceived weaknesses is our inexperienced manager and our very unbalanced squad ... whilst the squad can and we hope will be improved, Arteta needs another three or four seasons to gain that experience he should have gained before we ever signed him ....

Those are the facts - having a decent run when other sides were focusing on CL or Domestic Cups - sorry that's just smoke and mirrors.


5th would be a good season.
It would show good progress.
Top 4 would be great, but i always thought it would take 3-5 years and a squad overhaul to be regular top 4 contenders again.

As for what I am saying, I have made that clear on several occasions.
That we are in good form in 2021 so far does not mean it will continue. Of course not. Never said that.

I said that I hope we continue our good form and I think there is reason to believe we will.

3-5 years for top four. Wenger just choked on his champagne.


You made that comparison of expectation before.
It wasn't relevant then and it still isn't.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Dejan » Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:26 am

Power n Glory wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Our 2021 form is good. It's a factual statement not open for debate. Also not open for debate is the fact that the club do care about it. As a fan of this club, I am hopeful it brings some confidence and helps continue our run for the rest of the year and we're in good shape come Christmas time with a decent chance to push on. :



Our 2021 form would not have made top four - that is a fact - these are the points per game for just 2021

City 2.5
Utd 1.95
West Ham 1.91
Chelsea 1.9
Arsenal 1.86

So whilst you can say are form was good so what? are you saying that West Ham will be better than us next season? or that Liverpool will be worse? simply based on the second half of last season? are you sure about that?

Right now every pundit, AI-bot, journalist has us somewhere between 5th and 10th in their predictions ... sadly that's about right.

One of the biggest perceived weaknesses is our inexperienced manager and our very unbalanced squad ... whilst the squad can and we hope will be improved, Arteta needs another three or four seasons to gain that experience he should have gained before we ever signed him ....

Those are the facts - having a decent run when other sides were focusing on CL or Domestic Cups - sorry that's just smoke and mirrors.


Good post.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:13 am

aniym wrote:we threw in our lot with a guy who convinced Willian he could win the CL in 3 years, then took us out of Europe in 1.

My gosh, when you look at this, it makes you furious !!!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:30 am

Its difficult enough for a single player to continue good form into a new season, its far far more difficult for an entire team to do so. I don't know why Jay is putting so much emphasis on our closing form, as Ozim correctly stated, it has absolutely no bearing on our starting form, given there is a lengthy closed season and given players played in the Euros.

When Emery got sacked we were 8th, when Arteta took over we were 10th.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:19 pm

swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Our 2021 form is good. It's a factual statement not open for debate. Also not open for debate is the fact that the club do care about it. As a fan of this club, I am hopeful it brings some confidence and helps continue our run for the rest of the year and we're in good shape come Christmas time with a decent chance to push on. :



Our 2021 form would not have made top four - that is a fact - these are the points per game for just 2021

City 2.5
Utd 1.95
West Ham 1.91
Chelsea 1.9
Arsenal 1.86

So whilst you can say are form was good so what? are you saying that West Ham will be better than us next season? or that Liverpool will be worse? simply based on the second half of last season? are you sure about that?

Right now every pundit, AI-bot, journalist has us somewhere between 5th and 10th in their predictions ... sadly that's about right.

One of the biggest perceived weaknesses is our inexperienced manager and our very unbalanced squad ... whilst the squad can and we hope will be improved, Arteta needs another three or four seasons to gain that experience he should have gained before we ever signed him ....

Those are the facts - having a decent run when other sides were focusing on CL or Domestic Cups - sorry that's just smoke and mirrors.


5th would be a good season.
It would show good progress.
Top 4 would be great, but i always thought it would take 3-5 years and a squad overhaul to be regular top 4 contenders again.

As for what I am saying, I have made that clear on several occasions.
That we are in good form in 2021 so far does not mean it will continue. Of course not. Never said that.

I said that I hope we continue our good form and I think there is reason to believe we will.

3-5 years for top four. Wenger just choked on his champagne.



Forget about top 4, we should actually be competing for the PL title this season seeing as we don't have any European football. If Leicester could win it under, IMO, far more difficult circumstances, there's no reason why we can't. And if we're not at least challenging for the title then that just shows how bad Arteta currently is as a manager and how bad our recruitment team is.

I'm still disappointed that we missed a glorious opportunity the season Leicester won the PL. The only difference between then and now is that I am far more confident this time around that we will miss this opportunity that has been gifted to us. Such is how far we've fallen
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Goonerz » Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:10 pm

theHotHead wrote:Alas I think Jay is right on this, they have backed their manager thus far ..... but a piece of me says they have a contingency plan if it goes tits up.

I absolutely see no point whatsoever. Arteta is firmly backed by the owner at the moment.
The players, owner and media seem to all be right behind him.

I just find it a bit weird that people keep going on about it when there is absolutely no chance of it happening right now..

Same as people that keep saying “Kroenke has to sell up. Lets force him to sell etc”.

People that used to call for wenger to be sacked from 2007.

I just think that we have all got to be realistic and honest to ourselves sometimes.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:27 pm

Goonerz wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Alas I think Jay is right on this, they have backed their manager thus far ..... but a piece of me says they have a contingency plan if it goes tits up.

I absolutely see no point whatsoever. Arteta is firmly backed by the owner at the moment.
The players, owner and media seem to all be right behind him.

I just find it a bit weird that people keep going on about it when there is absolutely no chance of it happening right now..

Same as people that keep saying “Kroenke has to sell up. Lets force him to sell etc”.

People that used to call for wenger to be sacked from 2007.

I just think that we have all got to be realistic and honest to ourselves sometimes.

Because that's how you make change, first its a single voice, then a few, then it snowballs until the voices are loud enough not only to be heard but to have an affect. Jay was calling for Wenger to be sacked in 2007, I was calling for it in 2010/2011, if you wait for everyone to be on the same page it would take even longer for things to happen. People need to know that there is a large part of the fanbase that are not happy with the way things are, that "should" keep people honest and hopefully avoid lethargy. We need people to be on their toes.

If Arteta doesn't perform in the first few games the boos will ring out and he will immediately be under more pressure.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:19 pm

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Our 2021 form is good. It's a factual statement not open for debate. Also not open for debate is the fact that the club do care about it. As a fan of this club, I am hopeful it brings some confidence and helps continue our run for the rest of the year and we're in good shape come Christmas time with a decent chance to push on. :



Our 2021 form would not have made top four - that is a fact - these are the points per game for just 2021

City 2.5
Utd 1.95
West Ham 1.91
Chelsea 1.9
Arsenal 1.86

So whilst you can say are form was good so what? are you saying that West Ham will be better than us next season? or that Liverpool will be worse? simply based on the second half of last season? are you sure about that?

Right now every pundit, AI-bot, journalist has us somewhere between 5th and 10th in their predictions ... sadly that's about right.

One of the biggest perceived weaknesses is our inexperienced manager and our very unbalanced squad ... whilst the squad can and we hope will be improved, Arteta needs another three or four seasons to gain that experience he should have gained before we ever signed him ....

Those are the facts - having a decent run when other sides were focusing on CL or Domestic Cups - sorry that's just smoke and mirrors.


5th would be a good season.
It would show good progress.
Top 4 would be great, but i always thought it would take 3-5 years and a squad overhaul to be regular top 4 contenders again.

As for what I am saying, I have made that clear on several occasions.
That we are in good form in 2021 so far does not mean it will continue. Of course not. Never said that.

I said that I hope we continue our good form and I think there is reason to believe we will.

3-5 years for top four. Wenger just choked on his champagne.



Forget about top 4, we should actually be competing for the PL title this season seeing as we don't have any European football. If Leicester could win it under, IMO, far more difficult circumstances, there's no reason why we can't. And if we're not at least challenging for the title then that just shows how bad Arteta currently is as a manager and how bad our recruitment team is.

I'm still disappointed that we missed a glorious opportunity the season Leicester won the PL. The only difference between then and now is that I am far more confident this time around that we will miss this opportunity that has been gifted to us. Such is how far we've fallen


We are competing for the title, it's just entirely unrealistic to think we will win it. You never know , of course, but for where the club has come from over the last few years, 5th would be a good season. Top 4 a brilliant season.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:20 pm

How are we competing for the title exactly, we never get anywhere near the top teams.

Two 8th places doesn’t suggest we have a manager capable of competing.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:24 pm

Goonerz wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Alas I think Jay is right on this, they have backed their manager thus far ..... but a piece of me says they have a contingency plan if it goes tits up.

I absolutely see no point whatsoever. Arteta is firmly backed by the owner at the moment.
The players, owner and media seem to all be right behind him.

I just find it a bit weird that people keep going on about it when there is absolutely no chance of it happening right now..

Same as people that keep saying “Kroenke has to sell up. Lets force him to sell etc”.

People that used to call for wenger to be sacked from 2007.

I just think that we have all got to be realistic and honest to ourselves sometimes.


Comparisons to Wenger in 2007 aren't apt here. Wenger got CL football and developed young stars with a shoestring budget. No club would have sacked him then.

Arteta meanwhile has had his hand in the transfer kitty since he arrived, ignoring players we already have. During that time he's finished midtable twice, and been embarrassed in Europe twice.

The club has shown that it's not beyond making panicked decisions. If we start badly, the panic will spread because the amounts we've spent so far (I am still expecting one big transfer besides BW).
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:32 pm

Özim wrote:How are we competing for the title exactly, we never get anywhere near the top teams.

Two 8th places doesn’t suggest we have a manager capable of competing.


Everyone in the PL is competing for the title.
Some just have a much better chance than others.

Like I said, for us, 5th place would be a good season.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:35 pm

aniym wrote:
Goonerz wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Alas I think Jay is right on this, they have backed their manager thus far ..... but a piece of me says they have a contingency plan if it goes tits up.

I absolutely see no point whatsoever. Arteta is firmly backed by the owner at the moment.
The players, owner and media seem to all be right behind him.

I just find it a bit weird that people keep going on about it when there is absolutely no chance of it happening right now..

Same as people that keep saying “Kroenke has to sell up. Lets force him to sell etc”.

People that used to call for wenger to be sacked from 2007.

I just think that we have all got to be realistic and honest to ourselves sometimes.


Comparisons to Wenger in 2007 aren't apt here. Wenger got CL football and developed young stars with a shoestring budget. No club would have sacked him then.

Arteta meanwhile has had his hand in the transfer kitty since he arrived, ignoring players we already have. During that time he's finished midtable twice, and been embarrassed in Europe twice.

The club has shown that it's not beyond making panicked decisions. If we start badly, the panic will spread because the amounts we've spent so far (I am still expecting one big transfer besides BW).


The comparisons to Wenger in 2007 are indeed inappropriate but for none of the reasons you mentioned.
It's quite simply that Wenger had been in charge for a decade at that point and was making bad decisions by that point on the squad and for those watching closely enough we were beginning the slide we would do on for the next decade.
Arteta, on the other hand, has been in charge for 18 months and is tasked with rescuing the club, not maintaining our position at the top.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:51 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:How are we competing for the title exactly, we never get anywhere near the top teams.

Two 8th places doesn’t suggest we have a manager capable of competing.


Everyone in the PL is competing for the title.
Some just have a much better chance than others.

Like I said, for us, 5th place would be a good season.

5th would be a good season by default but Arteta and we would be fools to not see that there’s a good chance for us to win the league this season
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