The decline of Arsenal FC

[EliteKiller]

There is literally only one reason AFC are in decline and that's our board / Owner.

So name all the clubs with good owners above us? .... your argument is fundamentally flawed.

Leciester hired Rogers, Liverpool hired and funded Klopp, Chelsea hired Tuchel with immediate returns, City hired and funded Pep.

Even West Hams decision to hire Moyes has paid off big time, but again I'm no fan of Moyes but he's obviously been married to a club of his level successfully.

We could of got Ancelloti (again not a fan) but we opted for a guy who's never managed before.

.............. now look where we are and look where all of them are.

Question answered.

Also when I say "good owners" I'm specifically talking about the hiring of managers here, nothing else, the owners hire and fire managers, they also have the say on when enough is enough, Kroenke couldn't woo or know a good manager if it smacked him on the tache.

Fair enough - the owners can be ****s as long as they employ the right people - agree 100%

[jayramfootball]

We all know about the mistakes.
There are multiple reasons we're in this position, which is not as bad as you are making out.
Whether we like it or not we're a club in transition and still trying to find the route forward.

I am taking the positives
An FA Cup win, a better defence than we had and young players developing.
It's going to take years to fully fix and I simply don't buy that some magical manager is going to come along and wave a magic wand.

The comparison to Chelsea is apples and oranges.
They were nowhere near in the position we are squad wise.

I don't actually care what you think because your credibility has become bankrupt.

I know what you're doing and I've seen you do this before, you find a difficult cause so your backed into a corner and can practice trying to fight your way out of a paper bag and WUM everyone.

Its sad and pathetic, you didn't even like Arteta till the Villarreal game, your so obvious its corney.

We don't need a "magical manager" we just need a fkin good one, like any bloody team who wants to be successful, why has Klopp made such a difference to Liverpool? how did Wenger make such a difference to Arsenal back in the day ............ Fergie?

The manager controls the players, he chooses the players, he tells them how to play, he can get rid of bad players and bring in good ones, I'm saying all of the above are our problems, especially how we play.

Did that really need to be stated?

Take up one more silly position with me and consider us done, I'll ignore you until your sanity returns.

I am supporting the club and the manager for now.
I don't like the OTT reaction to Thursday's game at all.
That's my position.

Given the absolutely ridiculous reactions, its best I do not post here, but rest assured I will continue to support the club and hope we do well. I only hope the insanity subsides across our wider fan base and we do not end up a club like Chelsea.

[elkanofan]

I don't think I've ever been as genuinely sad about Arsenal as I was after today. Not because the trophy means that much or because we'll be missing out on the CL - we aren't good enough for CL anyway.

It just feels like a culmination of the decline years in the making. The final nail in the coffin. The point at which no one can fool themselves anymore - the club is in ruins. It's unrecognizable.

I'm curious about something: do you think this is our low point from which we'll start to build ourselves back, Liverpool style? Or will we settle in mediocrity or even fall back further? I genuinely don't know and the uncertainty is gut wrenching.

We all knew there would be tough years ahead after Wenger has left, but everyone knew the pains we'd go through were a price we'd have to pay to reinvent ourselves if we wanted to reach for the highest honors again. There is however no guarantee that we're bouncing back and we might just be settling in mediocrity - or regressing even further.

What do you think?

Excellent post.

I'm so used to us being this bad it didn't hurt but it was defiantly a seminal moment at the final whistle after the Villarreal game as our season ended.

Best served with great irony that the manager we needed to 'bounce back' we had sacked 17-18 moths ago just prevented us from getting to the Europa Final with a inferior team.

This year we have nothing whatsoever to paper over the long worn cracks we have seen within the foundations of our club. Our incompetence and mediocrity is fully naked to the world and now we face the reality of a struggle just to keep who we have and a important search for a competent manager.

Did i mention we have soulless, arrogant pieces of horse manure who own and run this club.

I ignored all sport and highlights until I got home after seeing a mate across town, I've been pretty social all weekend to be honest as in these dark this this is all that matters, but maybe the silver lining is all football is terrible, dull, boring, lifeless and people are turning off even if your team is doing well. However I'm still a gooner for life and yes, our team is in very serious trouble. We have become the very filth down the road we used to mock but entering the level they were in the 90's and 00's.

This is probably the biggest summer ever in 30 years for this club. if we get it wrong as we have for countless years now. just look at Schalke, they remind me too much of us. They were in the champions league in 2018/19, relegated 2 seasons later.

This is our level until a full scale clear out of the owner, incompetent board and club executives and manager happen for a start.

[theHotHead]

Ang,I won't quote your post but this is in reference to it. Let me give you a little of my history, I was a staunch Wenger fan, when people were calling for his head in the late 2000s I defended him, I blamed the stadium move for his inability to compete with Chelsea and Man U. But when I thought about some of his decisions, when I looked at what had actually transpired I began to realise that Wenger himself was the problem, not FFP, not the stadium debt, not the owners. There is a long list of problems with Arsenal that were directly linked to Wenger:

- Under performance in Europe. Wenger's gung ho philosphy led to exciting games but meant we didn't win anything. 20 something consecutive seasons in Europe and 2 cup finals to show for it, for one of the greatest teams to play club football !!

- Persisting with players/not giving enough time to others. Wenger had too much faith in players that gave him very little in return and some he gave little game time to at all that perhaps he should've. There is a long list of players who underachieved under Wenger.

- He broke up the Invincibles too early. He decided to adopt a strategy that meant we lost our best players almost overnight. By doing this we lost a lot of Arsenal DNA, that Arsenal fight that was passed along from the likes of Keown and Adams.

- He adopted a "Barca-Lite" approach after the CL final loss, he turned his preference to small technical players and moved from the physically (and mentally) strong players we had. It led to Wengerball, but the side-affect of Wengerball was a team with a soft as shite core. It lead to the excuse culture, Wenger cultivated it, blaming everyone and everything for our losses. We could not handle the physical side of the game, a key component of English football.

- He convinvced the club that Arsenal would be well-placed to compete once the FFP rules came in to play. The naivety on show here was astounding, it didn't take a psychic to know clubs would get around the rules. We were pot committed and got left behind.

- He adopted a Socialist wage structure. That made us potentially lose out on players because he was not willing to pay them the wages they would demand and what it also did was drive up our wage bill anyway because we put mediocre players on high wages. We ended up with lower quality players but a wage bill that suggested we had top players.

- He was completely inflexable and wouldn't change approach. He had a "one system/one gameplan" approach to every game and every opponent. There is having faith in your system and there is being deluded and arrogant. Wenger fell into the latter for me.

- When he did finally start to spend money he wasted it on substandard players. We got the odd marquee player but you could see he didn't want to spend, he augmented quality with dross. It was like buying a roast from Waitrose but getting the trimmings and veg from Lidl.

I'm not going to blame the owners, Wenger wanted full control and had full control and didn't want to relinquish it as we all know. I am criticising the urely football-related issues that for me are attibuted to Wenger. You say he was under resourced, I say he was stubborn and wanted to prove to everyone that we didn't need to spend fortunes to be competitive. Whenever there was a risk of us slipping out of the top 4 we spent good money on players.

But ok, I will concedee for argument's sake that his hands were tied after the stadium move. Does that explain him bidding £2m for Mark Schwarzer during our goalkeeping crisis, when Fulham wanted £4m for him ? That was classic Wenger. Does it explain the frequency of ass whoopings that we got from our peers ? Embarrasing drubbing after embarrassing drubbing ! In the 3 seasons before Wenger left HE spent over £260m. So its not that the club have not backed the managers its the managers have spent the money poorly. 6 seasons of purchases and all we have to show for it is an out of form Auba, a frustrated Laca, Thomas Partey struggling to adapt, Pepe struggling to adapt, Saliba struggling to even get a game.

I don't like Kroenke but he hasn't stopped these fools from spending money.

[Goonerred]

Ang,I won't quote your post but this is in reference to it. Let me give you a little of my history, I was a staunch Wenger fan, when people were calling for his head in the late 2000s I defended him, I blamed the stadium move for his inability to compete with Chelsea and Man U. But when I thought about some of his decisions, when I looked at what had actually transpired I began to realise that Wenger himself was the problem, not FFP, not the stadium debt, not the owners. There is a long list of problems with Arsenal that were directly linked to Wenger:

- Under performance in Europe. Wenger's gung ho philosphy led to exciting games but meant we didn't win anything. 20 something consecutive seasons in Europe and 2 cup finals to show for it, for one of the greatest teams to play club football !!

- Persisting with players/not giving enough time to others. Wenger had too much faith in players that gave him very little in return and some he gave little game time to at all that perhaps he should've. There is a long list of players who underachieved under Wenger.

- He broke up the Invincibles too early. He decided to adopt a strategy that meant we lost our best players almost overnight. By doing this we lost a lot of Arsenal DNA, that Arsenal fight that was passed along from the likes of Keown and Adams.

- He adopted a "Barca-Lite" approach after the CL final loss, he turned his preference to small technical players and moved from the physically (and mentally) strong players we had. It led to Wengerball, but the side-affect of Wengerball was a team with a soft as shite core. It lead to the excuse culture, Wenger cultivated it, blaming everyone and everything for our losses. We could not handle the physical side of the game, a key component of English football.

- He convinvced the club that Arsenal would be well-placed to compete once the FFP rules came in to play. The naivety on show here was astounding, it didn't take a psychic to know clubs would get around the rules. We were pot committed and got left behind.

- He adopted a Socialist wage structure. That made us potentially lose out on players because he was not willing to pay them the wages they would demand and what it also did was drive up our wage bill anyway because we put mediocre players on high wages. We ended up with lower quality players but a wage bill that suggested we had top players.

- He was completely inflexable and wouldn't change approach. He had a "one system/one gameplan" approach to every game and every opponent. There is having faith in your system and there is being deluded and arrogant. Wenger fell into the latter for me.

- When he did finally start to spend money he wasted it on substandard players. We got the odd marquee player but you could see he didn't want to spend, he augmented quality with dross. It was like buying a roast from Waitrose but getting the trimmings and veg from Lidl.

I'm not going to blame the owners, Wenger wanted full control and had full control and didn't want to relinquish it as we all know. I am criticising the urely football-related issues that for me are attibuted to Wenger. You say he was under resourced, I say he was stubborn and wanted to prove to everyone that we didn't need to spend fortunes to be competitive. Whenever there was a risk of us slipping out of the top 4 we spent good money on players.

But ok, I will concedee for argument's sake that his hands were tied after the stadium move. Does that explain him bidding £2m for Mark Schwarzer during our goalkeeping crisis, when Fulham wanted £4m for him ? That was classic Wenger. Does it explain the frequency of ass whoopings that we got from our peers ? Embarrasing drubbing after embarrassing drubbing ! In the 3 seasons before Wenger left HE spent over £260m. So its not that the club have not backed the managers its the managers have spent the money poorly. 6 seasons of purchases and all we have to show for it is an out of form Auba, a frustrated Laca, Thomas Partey struggling to adapt, Pepe struggling to adapt, Saliba struggling to even get a game.

I don't like Kroenke but he hasn't stopped these fools from spending money.

This is exactly how I feel. I used to post on the Arsenal official forum until they pulled it. I used to get stick from posters who saw the writing on the wall with Wenger in the late noughties as I used to stick up for Wenger and every season going into it hoping to challenge. I think it was 2012 when I realised it was not happening and we were getting worse. The wage bill, not giving our experienced players more than a one year contract when they hit thirty, we ended up with younger players with not much guidance and it showed on the pitch. Wenger gave us some good times as Arsenal fans and we saw some brilliant football, so I'll always revere Wenger for that. I think he was stubborn and refused to move with the times that the money Chelsea brought into the game.

[DiamondGooner]

Wenger was a legend, no one can deny that.

He just stayed past his expiry date, it happens but all is forgiven from me, like I said when he left us in 5th / 6th place we still had a good enough standing to bounce right back if we had hired a proper replacement.

Emery was 2nd / 3rd rate and Arteta wasn't even a manager ............ may as well of put Gunnersaurus in charge.

Bad decisions from the top because Kroenke has no idea about football and neither does his Accountant stooge Vinai.

Any and everyone that knew about football like Mislinslat etc got stabbed in the back and kicked out the club because all Kroenke understands is other suits, he's not a footballing man and even worse unlike Abramavich or the Shiek's, he doesn't do what they do, if your a billionaire and you know fk all about football what do you do?? ............ you hire the best to do it for you.

That's why Liverpool have Klopp, Chelsea have Tuchel and City have Pep ............. while we have Peps fkin cone boy.

[CrimsonGunner11]

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(nearly a decade ago)

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=13063&p=1366040&#p1366040

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and many many many more like that.

Sorry to say but what we’re seeing now is our new reality.

And it will continue to be that way until Kroenke suddenly prioritizes this club above all else or is removed from his position. If, for example, a good manager is available in the summer and Arteta continues on as manager of this club then that will be another prime example amongst an already long list of other examples of the direction we’re heading. Arteta may have looked promising initially but it doesn’t take a genius to see that we now have a man who should be learning his trade elsewhere managing this club.

[Nuggets]

The decline started in the Wonga period, top 4 was acceptable to the owner and the board because of the money it generated, Wonga had long lost his mojo but the arrogant fool would not accept that and so we festered at the start of the big decline. Emery wasn't given enough time in my humble opinion and was treated disgracefully by the club and the players. Wonga mollycoddled the players too much and his hairy fairy approach to discipline started the rot where the players(well some) thought they could do what they liked. ...No Discipline. I think this affected the disgraceful way Emery was treated and the lack of respect he got from some players. Then low and behold (fanfare of trumpets in the background) they employed a clown who had never managed a club in his life, WTF was they thinking and some people are not happy now with this clown in charge. I thought it was a stupid move when they brought him in and sadly so far I have not changed my mind. I have supported Arsenal most of my life and will continue BUT it saddens me greatly to see a once proud and great club humbled by the idiotic decisions made by fooking idiots who don't have the best interests of the club when making important decisions about our future. God willing we will eventually get back some prestige and pride and dare I say it some people who will have our club's best interest at heart.

[Paddy]

Apparently 5 senior players want to leave this season

And there's doubt about our GK coach cana amongst players

The players are: David Luiz, Willian, Bernd Leno, Granit Xhaka and Hector Bellerin.

https://theathletic.com/2580688/?amp#cl ... C3Uz1gv090

[Salibatelli]

They’ll be doing us a favour to be honest, be quite happy if we offload all of them, they all either don’t perform or make mistakes regularly!

Glad to see Xhaka on that list as Arteta clearly has him as the 1st player on the teamsheet so he wouldn’t choose to get rid.

[Nuggets]

Apparently 5 senior players want to leave this season

And there's doubt about our GK coach cana amongst players

The players are: David Luiz, Willian, Bernd Leno, Granit Xhaka and Hector Bellerin.

https://theathletic.com/2580688/?amp#cl ... C3Uz1gv090

No great loss there then, hope the clown put himself on that list.

[Phil71]

Apparently 5 senior players want to leave this season

And there's doubt about our GK coach cana amongst players

The players are: David Luiz, Willian, Bernd Leno, Granit Xhaka and Hector Bellerin.

https://theathletic.com/2580688/?amp#cl ... C3Uz1gv090

Thank Christ for that.

[Goonerred]

Apparently 5 senior players want to leave this season

And there's doubt about our GK coach cana amongst players

The players are: David Luiz, Willian, Bernd Leno, Granit Xhaka and Hector Bellerin.

https://theathletic.com/2580688/?amp#cl ... C3Uz1gv090

They won't be missed much. I can't see Willian leaving, he won't get the stupid money that we paid him.

[theHotHead]

Apparently 5 senior players want to leave this season

And there's doubt about our GK coach cana amongst players

The players are: David Luiz, Willian, Bernd Leno, Granit Xhaka and Hector Bellerin.

https://theathletic.com/2580688/?amp#cl ... C3Uz1gv090

I would have no problem with that, get rid, build again. But lets hope Arteta leaves with them !! I don't want him to oversee the rebuild.

[swipe right]

Apparently 5 senior players want to leave this season

And there's doubt about our GK coach cana amongst players

The players are: David Luiz, Willian, Bernd Leno, Granit Xhaka and Hector Bellerin.

https://theathletic.com/2580688/?amp#cl ... C3Uz1gv090

Mods - please move this to The Positive Energy thread. Thanks.