The decline of Arsenal FC

Discuss anything Arsenal-related. Tune in to get the latest news, and discuss results, performances, tactics, etc.

Low point from which we'll bounce back, or our new reality?

We'll bounce back
12
36%
This is our new reality
21
64%
 
Total votes : 33

Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby theHotHead » Sun May 09, 2021 8:36 am

swipe right wrote:Yet we are failing to achieve what Wenger achieved in his worst years. You wish you had sixth place today.

Agreed, but I am not an advocate of better the devil you know. In life we have to be brave, that very same braveness that gave Wenger the Arsenal job in the first place?! Remember "Arsene who??"

I habe no problem with us trying and failing, as Starmandb says, we try, we fail, we move on. What we absolutely don't do is stick where we are for fear of getting worse, that absolutely is a loser mentality.
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby theHotHead » Sun May 09, 2021 8:40 am

swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:Yet we are failing to achieve what Wenger achieved in his worst years. You wish you had sixth place today.


The team didn't collapse overnight.
It was Wenger who rotted the foundations to the core - and it started way back in 2007. It snowballed every year until he left.
If he was still manager, I suspect we'd be in exactly the same place.

You can only judge a man by what he did. Not by what he could have done or would have happened. What he did is get us European football for 22 years, CL for 20 years, 3 premier leagues, an invincible season, record number of FA cups, legendary players, and some of the most attractive football played in Europe. All along overseeing a new training center, new stadium and ownership change.

I know it’s hard for some people to admit because then it opens the door to their judgement about him. So one must make it seem the club was an absolute mess under him and this was inevitable. God forbid you’ll man up and admit you’ll were wrong.

What he also did was completely erode the squad's quality, he oversaw a change in mentality that said top 4 is all we need to aim for, he didn't win a trophy for over 10 years, he handed over the reigns with us falling out of the top 2, then top 3, then top 4 then top 5 then top 6. We were top 8 with Emery, we are top 10 with Arteta. Do you not see the pattern?!!! The slide started under Wenger.
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby swipe right » Sun May 09, 2021 9:34 am

theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:Yet we are failing to achieve what Wenger achieved in his worst years. You wish you had sixth place today.


The team didn't collapse overnight.
It was Wenger who rotted the foundations to the core - and it started way back in 2007. It snowballed every year until he left.
If he was still manager, I suspect we'd be in exactly the same place.

You can only judge a man by what he did. Not by what he could have done or would have happened. What he did is get us European football for 22 years, CL for 20 years, 3 premier leagues, an invincible season, record number of FA cups, legendary players, and some of the most attractive football played in Europe. All along overseeing a new training center, new stadium and ownership change.

I know it’s hard for some people to admit because then it opens the door to their judgement about him. So one must make it seem the club was an absolute mess under him and this was inevitable. God forbid you’ll man up and admit you’ll were wrong.

What he also did was completely erode the squad's quality, he oversaw a change in mentality that said top 4 is all we need to aim for, he didn't win a trophy for over 10 years, he handed over the reigns with us falling out of the top 2, then top 3, then top 4 then top 5 then top 6. We were top 8 with Emery, we are top 10 with Arteta. Do you not see the pattern?!!! The slide started under Wenger.

No. We finished second in 2016. He won the FA Cup in 2017 and he was sacked in 2018. Sorry there is no long slide here you talk of. Yes, his last team was shit. But he still got something out of it. Had we spent the same money on rebuilding the squad with him that we did with Emery and Arteta, he’d have us comfortably in top four. He wouldn’t be spending 70 mil on Pepe and 200k a week on Willian. That I guarantee you.
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby Goonerred » Sun May 09, 2021 9:37 am

swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:Yet we are failing to achieve what Wenger achieved in his worst years. You wish you had sixth place today.


The team didn't collapse overnight.
It was Wenger who rotted the foundations to the core - and it started way back in 2007. It snowballed every year until he left.
If he was still manager, I suspect we'd be in exactly the same place.

You can only judge a man by what he did. Not by what he could have done or would have happened. What he did is get us European football for 22 years, CL for 20 years, 3 premier leagues, an invincible season, record number of FA cups, legendary players, and some of the most attractive football played in Europe. All along overseeing a new training center, new stadium and ownership change.

I know it’s hard for some people to admit because then it opens the door to their judgement about him. So one must make it seem the club was an absolute mess under him and this was inevitable. God forbid you’ll man up and admit you’ll were wrong.

What he also did was completely erode the squad's quality, he oversaw a change in mentality that said top 4 is all we need to aim for, he didn't win a trophy for over 10 years, he handed over the reigns with us falling out of the top 2, then top 3, then top 4 then top 5 then top 6. We were top 8 with Emery, we are top 10 with Arteta. Do you not see the pattern?!!! The slide started under Wenger.

No. We finished second in 2016. He won the FA Cup in 2017 and he was sacked in 2018. Sorry there is no long slide here you talk of. Yes, his last team was shit. But he still got something out of it. Had we spent the same money on rebuilding the squad with him that we did with Emery and Arteta, he’d have us comfortably in top four. He wouldn’t be spending 70 mil on Pepe and 200k a week on Willian. That I guarantee you.


Hmm, he spent 90mil on Xhaka and Mustafi, enough said and Perez who he hardly played. He also must have had a hand in the ridiculous contract that was given to an ageing Ozil.
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby swipe right » Sun May 09, 2021 9:39 am

Goonerred wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:Yet we are failing to achieve what Wenger achieved in his worst years. You wish you had sixth place today.


The team didn't collapse overnight.
It was Wenger who rotted the foundations to the core - and it started way back in 2007. It snowballed every year until he left.
If he was still manager, I suspect we'd be in exactly the same place.

You can only judge a man by what he did. Not by what he could have done or would have happened. What he did is get us European football for 22 years, CL for 20 years, 3 premier leagues, an invincible season, record number of FA cups, legendary players, and some of the most attractive football played in Europe. All along overseeing a new training center, new stadium and ownership change.

I know it’s hard for some people to admit because then it opens the door to their judgement about him. So one must make it seem the club was an absolute mess under him and this was inevitable. God forbid you’ll man up and admit you’ll were wrong.

What he also did was completely erode the squad's quality, he oversaw a change in mentality that said top 4 is all we need to aim for, he didn't win a trophy for over 10 years, he handed over the reigns with us falling out of the top 2, then top 3, then top 4 then top 5 then top 6. We were top 8 with Emery, we are top 10 with Arteta. Do you not see the pattern?!!! The slide started under Wenger.

No. We finished second in 2016. He won the FA Cup in 2017 and he was sacked in 2018. Sorry there is no long slide here you talk of. Yes, his last team was shit. But he still got something out of it. Had we spent the same money on rebuilding the squad with him that we did with Emery and Arteta, he’d have us comfortably in top four. He wouldn’t be spending 70 mil on Pepe and 200k a week on Willian. That I guarantee you.


Hmm, he spent 90mil on Xhaka and Mustafi, enough said and Perez who he hardly played. He also must have had a hand in the ridiculous contract that was given to an ageing Ozil.

It is well established at this point that Gazidis bought all three players on the backs of StatDNA recommendations. Wenger wanted Kante and was given Xhaka, he wanted Vardy and ended up with Perez.
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby Arsenal Tone » Sun May 09, 2021 9:41 am

swipe right wrote:
Goonerred wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:Yet we are failing to achieve what Wenger achieved in his worst years. You wish you had sixth place today.


The team didn't collapse overnight.
It was Wenger who rotted the foundations to the core - and it started way back in 2007. It snowballed every year until he left.
If he was still manager, I suspect we'd be in exactly the same place.

You can only judge a man by what he did. Not by what he could have done or would have happened. What he did is get us European football for 22 years, CL for 20 years, 3 premier leagues, an invincible season, record number of FA cups, legendary players, and some of the most attractive football played in Europe. All along overseeing a new training center, new stadium and ownership change.

I know it’s hard for some people to admit because then it opens the door to their judgement about him. So one must make it seem the club was an absolute mess under him and this was inevitable. God forbid you’ll man up and admit you’ll were wrong.

What he also did was completely erode the squad's quality, he oversaw a change in mentality that said top 4 is all we need to aim for, he didn't win a trophy for over 10 years, he handed over the reigns with us falling out of the top 2, then top 3, then top 4 then top 5 then top 6. We were top 8 with Emery, we are top 10 with Arteta. Do you not see the pattern?!!! The slide started under Wenger.

No. We finished second in 2016. He won the FA Cup in 2017 and he was sacked in 2018. Sorry there is no long slide here you talk of. Yes, his last team was shit. But he still got something out of it. Had we spent the same money on rebuilding the squad with him that we did with Emery and Arteta, he’d have us comfortably in top four. He wouldn’t be spending 70 mil on Pepe and 200k a week on Willian. That I guarantee you.


Hmm, he spent 90mil on Xhaka and Mustafi, enough said and Perez who he hardly played. He also must have had a hand in the ridiculous contract that was given to an ageing Ozil.

It is well established at this point that Gazidis bought all three players on the backs of StatDNA recommendations. Wenger wanted Kante and was given Xhaka, he wanted Vardy and ended up with Perez.
Evidence?
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby Phil71 » Sun May 09, 2021 9:49 am

Tony Adams wrote:
swipe right wrote:
Goonerred wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:Yet we are failing to achieve what Wenger achieved in his worst years. You wish you had sixth place today.


The team didn't collapse overnight.
It was Wenger who rotted the foundations to the core - and it started way back in 2007. It snowballed every year until he left.
If he was still manager, I suspect we'd be in exactly the same place.

You can only judge a man by what he did. Not by what he could have done or would have happened. What he did is get us European football for 22 years, CL for 20 years, 3 premier leagues, an invincible season, record number of FA cups, legendary players, and some of the most attractive football played in Europe. All along overseeing a new training center, new stadium and ownership change.

I know it’s hard for some people to admit because then it opens the door to their judgement about him. So one must make it seem the club was an absolute mess under him and this was inevitable. God forbid you’ll man up and admit you’ll were wrong.

What he also did was completely erode the squad's quality, he oversaw a change in mentality that said top 4 is all we need to aim for, he didn't win a trophy for over 10 years, he handed over the reigns with us falling out of the top 2, then top 3, then top 4 then top 5 then top 6. We were top 8 with Emery, we are top 10 with Arteta. Do you not see the pattern?!!! The slide started under Wenger.

No. We finished second in 2016. He won the FA Cup in 2017 and he was sacked in 2018. Sorry there is no long slide here you talk of. Yes, his last team was shit. But he still got something out of it. Had we spent the same money on rebuilding the squad with him that we did with Emery and Arteta, he’d have us comfortably in top four. He wouldn’t be spending 70 mil on Pepe and 200k a week on Willian. That I guarantee you.


Hmm, he spent 90mil on Xhaka and Mustafi, enough said and Perez who he hardly played. He also must have had a hand in the ridiculous contract that was given to an ageing Ozil.

It is well established at this point that Gazidis bought all three players on the backs of StatDNA recommendations. Wenger wanted Kante and was given Xhaka, he wanted Vardy and ended up with Perez.
Evidence?


I've asked for evidence of this when it's been mentioned in the past and didn't get anything convincing.

Wenger bought the players.
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby Ach » Sun May 09, 2021 10:19 am

Imagine thinking Wenger who was in charge of all things football here didn't buy players lol
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby Power n Glory » Sun May 09, 2021 10:28 am

It's rubbish. Wenger and Dick Law confirmed a bid was accepted and we offered Vardy loads of money but he turned it down.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/offered-a-lot-of-money-wenger-vardy-turned-down-arsenal/l8ss8nv4aj2t17e9gxlb1rvwx
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby Alexis » Sun May 09, 2021 10:41 am

Phil71 wrote:
Tony Adams wrote:
swipe right wrote:
Goonerred wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:Yet we are failing to achieve what Wenger achieved in his worst years. You wish you had sixth place today.


The team didn't collapse overnight.
It was Wenger who rotted the foundations to the core - and it started way back in 2007. It snowballed every year until he left.
If he was still manager, I suspect we'd be in exactly the same place.

You can only judge a man by what he did. Not by what he could have done or would have happened. What he did is get us European football for 22 years, CL for 20 years, 3 premier leagues, an invincible season, record number of FA cups, legendary players, and some of the most attractive football played in Europe. All along overseeing a new training center, new stadium and ownership change.

I know it’s hard for some people to admit because then it opens the door to their judgement about him. So one must make it seem the club was an absolute mess under him and this was inevitable. God forbid you’ll man up and admit you’ll were wrong.

What he also did was completely erode the squad's quality, he oversaw a change in mentality that said top 4 is all we need to aim for, he didn't win a trophy for over 10 years, he handed over the reigns with us falling out of the top 2, then top 3, then top 4 then top 5 then top 6. We were top 8 with Emery, we are top 10 with Arteta. Do you not see the pattern?!!! The slide started under Wenger.

No. We finished second in 2016. He won the FA Cup in 2017 and he was sacked in 2018. Sorry there is no long slide here you talk of. Yes, his last team was shit. But he still got something out of it. Had we spent the same money on rebuilding the squad with him that we did with Emery and Arteta, he’d have us comfortably in top four. He wouldn’t be spending 70 mil on Pepe and 200k a week on Willian. That I guarantee you.


Hmm, he spent 90mil on Xhaka and Mustafi, enough said and Perez who he hardly played. He also must have had a hand in the ridiculous contract that was given to an ageing Ozil.

It is well established at this point that Gazidis bought all three players on the backs of StatDNA recommendations. Wenger wanted Kante and was given Xhaka, he wanted Vardy and ended up with Perez.
Evidence?


I've asked for evidence of this when it's been mentioned in the past and didn't get anything convincing.

Wenger bought the players.


Go trawl through David ornsteins tweet when he was still at BBC. He confirmed they were all bought by gazidis and not Wenger. He also confirmed Wenger had been tryna sell mustafi from the season afterwards coz he knew he was shite.

And before anyone says anything ornstein was pretty much the in-guy that knew everything going on inside the club as he had contacts. Due to the reshuffle and his move to the athletic, he doesn't have that much info anymore as lot of those contacts seem to have moved on.

Also Wenger resigned when he realised that people were no longer following his orders, he was never sacked. But some of you seem to want to think he got sacked to suit your shitty agenda lol, pathetic.
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby Power n Glory » Sun May 09, 2021 10:54 am

It is false. Words from Wenger and Dick Law.

“Leicester had just won the championship in 2016, and [Vichai] Srivaddhanaprabha at the time, who unfortunately after had the helicopter accident, did absolutely not want to lose him and they offered him a longer contract and approximately the same money, if not more.”

He told The Athletic in April 2020: “The deal with Leicester was done, the deal with the player was done.

“He came down to visit with his wife Rebekah, he sat on the couch in front of Arsene… and then he backed off.

“On his way back to Leicester I get a call from the player saying he wants to think about it overnight. At that point, you know it's bad news.”


Vardy confirmed he turned down Arsenal as well. Rodgers spoke on it and believed he turned down Arsenal because there was too much competition at Arsenal or something along those lines. I also remember hearing something about Wenger wanting to play him down the wings, which is how he played Perez.

I believe once the Vardy deal fell through we were left scrambling and the scouts found Perez but Wenger didn't rate him.
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby jayramfootball » Sun May 09, 2021 10:57 am

swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:Yet we are failing to achieve what Wenger achieved in his worst years. You wish you had sixth place today.


The team didn't collapse overnight.
It was Wenger who rotted the foundations to the core - and it started way back in 2007. It snowballed every year until he left.
If he was still manager, I suspect we'd be in exactly the same place.

You can only judge a man by what he did. Not by what he could have done or would have happened. What he did is get us European football for 22 years, CL for 20 years, 3 premier leagues, an invincible season, record number of FA cups, legendary players, and some of the most attractive football played in Europe. All along overseeing a new training center, new stadium and ownership change.

I know it’s hard for some people to admit because then it opens the door to their judgement about him. So one must make it seem the club was an absolute mess under him and this was inevitable. God forbid you’ll man up and admit you’ll were wrong.

What he also did was completely erode the squad's quality, he oversaw a change in mentality that said top 4 is all we need to aim for, he didn't win a trophy for over 10 years, he handed over the reigns with us falling out of the top 2, then top 3, then top 4 then top 5 then top 6. We were top 8 with Emery, we are top 10 with Arteta. Do you not see the pattern?!!! The slide started under Wenger.

No. We finished second in 2016. He won the FA Cup in 2017 and he was sacked in 2018. Sorry there is no long slide here you talk of. Yes, his last team was shit. But he still got something out of it. Had we spent the same money on rebuilding the squad with him that we did with Emery and Arteta, he’d have us comfortably in top four. He wouldn’t be spending 70 mil on Pepe and 200k a week on Willian. That I guarantee you.


It was Wenger that took us out of the top 4.
His last 2 years he was 5th and 6th.
Way back in 2006 we dropped from the top 2 and were bouncing around in 3rd 4th settling for top 4 and the CL.
All through the last decade of Wenger the squad was getting weaker and weaker and he never addressed the glaring issues - particularly in defence.

By the time he left he had completely ruined the clubs reputation on the field of play.

Yeah sure in 2016 we managed to peak back up to 2nd, a dying man's last burst of life.

As for the FA Cup, yeah we have a brilliant record and Arteta has won one too remember.
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby theHotHead » Sun May 09, 2021 11:13 am

swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:Yet we are failing to achieve what Wenger achieved in his worst years. You wish you had sixth place today.


The team didn't collapse overnight.
It was Wenger who rotted the foundations to the core - and it started way back in 2007. It snowballed every year until he left.
If he was still manager, I suspect we'd be in exactly the same place.

You can only judge a man by what he did. Not by what he could have done or would have happened. What he did is get us European football for 22 years, CL for 20 years, 3 premier leagues, an invincible season, record number of FA cups, legendary players, and some of the most attractive football played in Europe. All along overseeing a new training center, new stadium and ownership change.

I know it’s hard for some people to admit because then it opens the door to their judgement about him. So one must make it seem the club was an absolute mess under him and this was inevitable. God forbid you’ll man up and admit you’ll were wrong.

What he also did was completely erode the squad's quality, he oversaw a change in mentality that said top 4 is all we need to aim for, he didn't win a trophy for over 10 years, he handed over the reigns with us falling out of the top 2, then top 3, then top 4 then top 5 then top 6. We were top 8 with Emery, we are top 10 with Arteta. Do you not see the pattern?!!! The slide started under Wenger.

No. We finished second in 2016. He won the FA Cup in 2017 and he was sacked in 2018. Sorry there is no long slide here you talk of. Yes, his last team was shit. But he still got something out of it. Had we spent the same money on rebuilding the squad with him that we did with Emery and Arteta, he’d have us comfortably in top four. He wouldn’t be spending 70 mil on Pepe and 200k a week on Willian. That I guarantee you.

Mate are you seriously including the season of the one horse race when all the other big boys were going through transitions with new managers etc and we topped the league in January, only to come second to Leicester?? Thanks for making my point for me, we came second in a one horse race under Wenger :lol:

As for of Wenger doing good if he had money to spend, are you forgetting he spent £137m in the 2017/18 season and £101m the season before?? He wasted the money! The second half of his tenure was an absolute joke and a complete failure. Your problem is you have no balance, you only see the good and you ignore the bad. I take a view on both and while the good outweighs the bad where Wenger is concerned the scales are not tipped anywhere near as they should be, toward the good for Wenger. You cannot ignore the negative impact and legacy he left for others to cope with.
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby Luzh 22 » Sun May 09, 2021 12:29 pm

Never forget the "fourth place trophy". It was that kind of money orientated mentality that got us into this shit.

AW covered for an incompetent board for far too long, and was happy to do so. We are now reaping those fruits.
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Re: The decline of Arsenal FC

Postby Phil71 » Sun May 09, 2021 1:18 pm

Alexis wrote:
Phil71 wrote:
Tony Adams wrote:
swipe right wrote:
Goonerred wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:Yet we are failing to achieve what Wenger achieved in his worst years. You wish you had sixth place today.


The team didn't collapse overnight.
It was Wenger who rotted the foundations to the core - and it started way back in 2007. It snowballed every year until he left.
If he was still manager, I suspect we'd be in exactly the same place.

You can only judge a man by what he did. Not by what he could have done or would have happened. What he did is get us European football for 22 years, CL for 20 years, 3 premier leagues, an invincible season, record number of FA cups, legendary players, and some of the most attractive football played in Europe. All along overseeing a new training center, new stadium and ownership change.

I know it’s hard for some people to admit because then it opens the door to their judgement about him. So one must make it seem the club was an absolute mess under him and this was inevitable. God forbid you’ll man up and admit you’ll were wrong.

What he also did was completely erode the squad's quality, he oversaw a change in mentality that said top 4 is all we need to aim for, he didn't win a trophy for over 10 years, he handed over the reigns with us falling out of the top 2, then top 3, then top 4 then top 5 then top 6. We were top 8 with Emery, we are top 10 with Arteta. Do you not see the pattern?!!! The slide started under Wenger.

No. We finished second in 2016. He won the FA Cup in 2017 and he was sacked in 2018. Sorry there is no long slide here you talk of. Yes, his last team was shit. But he still got something out of it. Had we spent the same money on rebuilding the squad with him that we did with Emery and Arteta, he’d have us comfortably in top four. He wouldn’t be spending 70 mil on Pepe and 200k a week on Willian. That I guarantee you.


Hmm, he spent 90mil on Xhaka and Mustafi, enough said and Perez who he hardly played. He also must have had a hand in the ridiculous contract that was given to an ageing Ozil.

It is well established at this point that Gazidis bought all three players on the backs of StatDNA recommendations. Wenger wanted Kante and was given Xhaka, he wanted Vardy and ended up with Perez.
Evidence?


I've asked for evidence of this when it's been mentioned in the past and didn't get anything convincing.

Wenger bought the players.


Go trawl through David ornsteins tweet when he was still at BBC. He confirmed they were all bought by gazidis and not Wenger. He also confirmed Wenger had been tryna sell mustafi from the season afterwards coz he knew he was shite.

And before anyone says anything ornstein was pretty much the in-guy that knew everything going on inside the club as he had contacts. Due to the reshuffle and his move to the athletic, he doesn't have that much info anymore as lot of those contacts seem to have moved on.

Also Wenger resigned when he realised that people were no longer following his orders, he was never sacked. But some of you seem to want to think he got sacked to suit your shitty agenda lol, pathetic.


So your 'evidence' that Wenger didn't buy those players is some tweets from one journalist?
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