No Europe next season

[jayramfootball]

It's not bordering on insanity , it is actual insanity to suggest a manager is responsible for a missed chance or a misplaced easy pass, or a keeper throwing it in his own net, or a keeper rushing out and hand balling it, or a defender playing a suicide pass across the back four, or a midfielder bottling it and playing it backwards to be safe when a forward pass is on, or a player not being able to control a pass,or a player not putting the effort in, or a player not being able to cross a ball, or a player getting dispossessed from dawdling on the ball. I could go on. Our problems are and have been for years BASIC errors, a lack of concentration and lack of execution.

While I do think a manager can influence the probability of players making silly errors by motivating them, creating urgency in the dressing room and so on. Lets forget this part for a sec.

The thing is Jay, if players keep making these silly errors then its up to the MANAGER to not play these players. Why are Xhaka and Leno still playing every game?

Don;t disagree with the part in bold.
Not my argument. Nor do I think Arteta is doing a good job - as I have stated on several occasions.

I am saying that the demonisation of the manager, blaming him for literally everything is a f***ing joke.
We have people literally lying to themselves, pretending that a new manager is going to solve our problems - not only that, in some cases a manager that is just 3pts ahead of us in a really lousy season.

It is what it is - an overly emotional reaction to losing a semi-final in a competition that we all laughed at not so long ago.

Honestly you’re not saying much wrong, bit like Auba in the summer, people just don’t like to hear what you’re saying. They will call you an Arteta fan next.

Yes, it does appear that discussing both positives and negatives of Arteta or even disagreeing with the hysteria means one must be an Arteta fan.
This is a football forum, though, so I don't expect much in the way of logical thinking and am fine with that.

[Ach]

Fifth

Point behind top 4 with a worse squad

Minor miracle

[jayramfootball]

And lets not forget. Arteta has a much better team than Emery had. Yet our performances declined significantly. Its very much on the manager.

Well, they improved in the first half of Arteta's reign and we won a trophy.
This year we've lost Auba's goals and that is on Auba. Think what 12 more goals, lets say half of them match-winners would have done for our league position. 12 points more. We'd be 4th
Before you say it's because we've not created - we have. We've created more chances under Arteta than we did under Emery.
We've also improved our defence.

[Rockape]

This is a football forum, though, so I don't expect much in the way of logical thinking and am fine with that

.

Irony at its finest!

[jayramfootball]

This is a football forum, though, so I don't expect much in the way of logical thinking and am fine with that

.

Irony at its finest!

Indeed.
Given you posted the above, yet failed to answer the questions I posed, you made my point.
Like I said, put up or shut up.

EDIT : Ah good you replied after all - I will respond.

[Ach]

Okay as I’m bored I’ll humour you and answer your questions:

Why is a manager to blame for basic errors a football player - a professional football player - makes on the field of play?

If it was one game, one player, odd occasions, then obviously he wouldn’t be. But it’s not, which points to players not thinking clearly because of how they are coached and sent out to play particular tactics, like playing out from the back for instance.


Why were our tactics not fine given we had most of the game and created plenty of chances to win and were hardly troubled?

We didn’t create much, a couple of half chances was all....you love the stats, they had more shots on target than we did. We wasted so much time faffing around, rather than playing direct attacking football.

Why is the Spursday Europa League that we ALL laughed at not so long ago now the object of desire on here?

To progress as a club we need income and to be seen on the highest stage, so winning the EL would get us into the CL which provides big money and also the chance to bring in ambitious high quality players.

Expect no reply. Or a bs one.

Expect 350k to be mentioned

[DiamondGooner]

This is a football forum, though, so I don't expect much in the way of logical thinking and am fine with that

.

Irony at its finest!

I've come to the conclusion that JayRam is like a sadist S&M type.

You'll look at him getting stomped on his balls with high heels and think "Ouch that has to hurt, the guy's getting devastated" but instead of yielding like a normal person and admitting defeat his eyes light up and he yells "More you c*nt".

I mean ........... how do you compete with that?

Bill Murray said it best .............

“It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.”

............. or a closest sadist in this instance.

[Rockape]

This is a football forum, though, so I don't expect much in the way of logical thinking and am fine with that

.

Irony at its finest!

Indeed.
Given you posted the above, yet failed to answer the questions I posed, you made my point.
Like I said, put up or shut up.

[jayramfootball]

This is a football forum, though, so I don't expect much in the way of logical thinking and am fine with that

.

Irony at its finest!

I've come to the conclusion that JayRam is like a sadist S&M type.

You'll look at him getting stomped on his balls with high heels and think "Ouch that has to hurt, the guy's getting devastated" but instead of yielding like a normal person and admitting defeat his eyes light up and he yells "More you c*nt".

I mean ........... how do you compete with that?

Bill Murray said it best .............

“It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.”

............. or a closest sadist in this instance.

What I see is a bunch of posters not actually making valid arguments and resorting to personal attacks or digs.
I am fine with debating multiple people at once.

[Rockape]

Maybe if you read some posts , rather than your relentless hammering away on the keyboard, you’d see I did answer your questions.

[Santi]

Okay as I’m bored I’ll humour you and answer your questions:

Why is a manager to blame for basic errors a football player - a professional football player - makes on the field of play?

If it was one game, one player, odd occasions, then obviously he wouldn’t be. But it’s not, which points to players not thinking clearly because of how they are coached and sent out to play particular tactics, like playing out from the back for instance.


Why were our tactics not fine given we had most of the game and created plenty of chances to win and were hardly troubled?

We didn’t create much, a couple of half chances was all....you love the stats, they had more shots on target than we did. We wasted so much time faffing around, rather than playing direct attacking football.

Why is the Spursday Europa League that we ALL laughed at not so long ago now the object of desire on here?

To progress as a club we need income and to be seen on the highest stage, so winning the EL would get us into the CL which provides big money and also the chance to bring in ambitious high quality players.

And here is the magic...

There’s nothing wrong with holding those opinions, how much is actually down to the manager we will never be able to prove or pinpoint. Even if he is sacked and next season we win the title, yeah you could say the new manager did a much better job and that would be pretty fair, but each and every season is a different set of circumstances so all that matters is what happens that season in reality.

Maybe you are right and Mikel’s approach is causing them to be worse and misplace passes. Maybe it isn’t, maybe they are lazy and don’t care as much as we want them to? This is why I will blame both players and manager, you can’t segregate them fully and when we’ve seen the same players underperform for 3 managers then it leads me to believe they are heavily to blame too. In fact this season has made me have more respect for emery (even though I still think he was trash here) because I see yet again how much shit he was dealing with...as were Wenger and now Mikel.

Now I think we’ve done too poorly and Mikel has made too many rookie mistakes repeatedly for him to carry on. The football has been pretty dogshit tbh, bar a brief period from Christmas to early Feb, and the results haven’t been there (unlike Tuchel is seeing) to get away with it. He’s also hung himself with his recent post game interviews where we’ve clearly been shit and he says we dominated the game. It reeks of delusional wenger.

However, that does not mean I expect even half our problems to be solved by sacking him. We may be lucky to get a Bielsa who overperforms regularly but those managers are rare nowadays and I still don’t want us to end up with a revolving door like Chelsea. We need to go all out on all fronts, manager, transfers and the internal structure to ensure accountability. Sacking Mikel fixes just 1 of those issues.

[jayramfootball]

It's not bordering on insanity , it is actual insanity to suggest a manager is responsible for a missed chance or a misplaced easy pass, or a keeper throwing it in his own net, or a keeper rushing out and hand balling it, or a defender playing a suicide pass across the back four, or a midfielder bottling it and playing it backwards to be safe when a forward pass is on, or a player not being able to control a pass,or a player not putting the effort in, or a player not being able to cross a ball, or a player getting dispossessed from dawdling on the ball. I could go on. Our problems are and have been for years BASIC errors, a lack of concentration and lack of execution.

While I do think a manager can influence the probability of players making silly errors by motivating them, creating urgency in the dressing room and so on. Lets forget this part for a sec.

The thing is Jay, if players keep making these silly errors then its up to the MANAGER to not play these players. Why are Xhaka and Leno still playing every game?

Don;t disagree with the part in bold.
Not my argument. Nor do I think Arteta is doing a good job - as I have stated on several occasions.

I am saying that the demonisation of the manager, blaming him for literally everything is a f***ing joke.
We have people literally lying to themselves, pretending that a new manager is going to solve our problems - not only that, in some cases a manager that is just 3pts ahead of us in a really lousy season.

It is what it is - an overly emotional reaction to losing a semi-final in a competition that we all laughed at not so long ago.

Honestly you’re not saying much wrong, bit like Auba in the summer, people just don’t like to hear what you’re saying. They will call you an Arteta fan next.

............... oh no.

They're trolling again.

The dynamic, no, dysfunctional duo is back.

I don't even think HotHead will back you this time, this ones too hot to touch for anyone who's sane.

Unai got these same players to a Europa final and what 5th / 6th?

We've managed neither with the same players plus additions like Partey etc, not Arteta's fault though obviously, I mean, this pass, pass, pass, pass in our own box is working amazingly right?

The thing is I remember the Auba contract situation.
Same sh*t on here.
Now you along with the others who went all-in on that look like fools.
Don't think I haven't noticed how many involved in that hilarity have been quite reticent to get involved in the debate as the season has unfolded.

[jayramfootball]

Maybe if you read some posts , rather than your relentless hammering away on the keyboard, you’d see I did answer your questions.

Lol, apologies - the posts are coming quite thick and fast so I missed it.
Just reading it now and will respond.

[Rockape]

However, that does not mean I expect even half our problems to be solved by sacking him

.

Santi.....we agree on most thing AFC and I hear you on this. It’s not about solving all our problems, it’s about getting someone in with a clear tactical vision, based on the players we have and the ones he can bring in.

Arteta has had his chance, but we need to replace him. I’m aware, there are no guarantees, but I am confident the we are guaranteed to be mediocre under his management.

[jayramfootball]

Okay as I’m bored I’ll humour you and answer your questions:

Why is a manager to blame for basic errors a football player - a professional football player - makes on the field of play?

If it was one game, one player, odd occasions, then obviously he wouldn’t be. But it’s not, which points to players not thinking clearly because of how they are coached and sent out to play particular tactics, like playing out from the back for instance.

This has been happening for years, not just under Arteta. It's the players themselves who should at a minimum be 100% concentrated during a game and be able to control a simple pass or simply not panic. The fact that it is a trend with players that have played under 3 managers tells me it is not a manager issue.

Have a think about what you are saying. That the likes of Xhaka making silly mistakes is because Arteta got his tactics wrong????? Was it Arteta's fault when he was making the same mistakes under Wenger and Emery???

Why were our tactics not fine given we had most of the game and created plenty of chances to win and were hardly troubled?


We didn’t create much, a couple of half chances was all....you love the stats, they had more shots on target than we did. We wasted so much time faffing around, rather than playing direct attacking football.

We had 14 shots to their 8.
We had the better chances.
2 good chances fell to Auba, one to Smith Rowe and another header from Holding was also a good chance.
We bossed possession.
The stats show their defence was twice as busy than ours.
They had one chance that could be called a good chance - leno was hardly seen in the game.

I didn't at any point say our tactics were good. I said they were fine and not the reason we drew the game and went out.

Why is the Spursday Europa League that we ALL laughed at not so long ago now the object of desire on here?

To progress as a club we need income and to be seen on the highest stage, so winning the EL would get us into the CL which provides big money and also the chance to bring in ambitious high quality players.

I see why people make that argument but I don't buy it.
Don't get me wrong - I want us to win every game, but I would rather we win PL games and progress as a team.
I don't think we're ready to play in the CL, nor do I buy the argument that we can't get top players. We've wasted a fortune on so-called 'top' players and it got us to here. Conversely our only shining light this season has come from players that cost little to nothing. I don't get carried away with the big transfer = good player thinking.
Next season we can focus on the league and FA Cup and it will help us.
Also remember that the last time were out of Europe we signed Dennis Bergkamp that summer.
We're still a big name.
I remember the same argument that we could not sign players when we failed to qualify for the CL. We signed Aubameyang and Lacazette.
This argument about 'players not wanting to some here because of no European football' is a trigger response to disappointment.
SOME players might now, others will. The most important thing to players is money.