Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Santi » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:40 pm

KG3 wrote:
Paddy wrote:ancelotti should have come here and arteta should have gone to everton


Wenger should have left when klopp was available and we wouldn’t even have this thread lol


And a CL title :crybaby:
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:16 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:If a player doesn’t listen or perform you drop them, but you have to be consistent and treat everyone the same.

Arteta cherry picks who he treats one way and who he treats another, the Willian Dubai trip was an example.

Martinelli gets dropped whatever he does because “we played 7 young players”, Saliba is sent on loan because he’s not good enough, Xhaka gets picked all the time regardless, Luiz and Holding make mistakes week in week out but they’re good enough apparently, two much double standards for players to respect him.

Respect has to be earnt, he’s done nothing to earn it, it’s no surprise players aren’t that bothered by his instructions really, firstly they don’t work and don’t use players to their maximum and secondly he has one rule for one and another rule for another.

It’s commonplace for players to lose faith when things don’t work or they’re asked to do things that don’t make sense to them.

Too much of what Arteta asks doesn’t make sense, players just don’t buy into it, it’s a managers job to get players to believe, if he doesn’t he’s failed.


Yes exactly - but you can't primarily point the finger at the manager for player who lacks motivation.

Respect for a manager might need to b earned, but respect for ones profession and the club is not. Players should respect the club and the fans as a given and put the required effort in week in week out. They should not need a manager to mollycoddle them.


Whilst that might be true it’s football today, there’s not many players that perform despite the manager.

In the end though the manager is in charge and picks the team, so he can just as easily drop them, he can also treat everyone the same way.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby VCC » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:16 pm

theHotHead wrote:On the topic of responsiblity performances MUST be 100% the responsibility of the manager. The players have responsibility to put in effort and play to their ability, however, if the tactics are in place that do not allow the players to perform to their ability they cannot be held responsible for that.

Dont agree HH
It has to be a 50/50 buy in from all or you are f***ked. Anything less and you have players or management hiding.
And it is always situational to what may or may not have happened in what ever circumstances
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Ach » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:29 pm

Get a quality spine throughout the team and build around them

From who we have now

Leno, quality keeper. Least of our problems.
Gabriel, in and out of the team. Not particularly impressive when he does play but he's new so time is given
Partey, bang average so far. Injury prone. But like Gabriel, first season so hopefully better next season
Auba, world class striker. Played on the left where he's expected to follow the opposition right back instead of playing to his own strengths. That's on Arteta.

If those 4 are fit and on form then that's a decent spine.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Nejch » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:30 pm

Jayram, I think you got it exactly backwards. If we were shit all the time, then I would be looking at mainly the players, because the reasoning goes, no matter how we set up or who we choose, we still underperform. We have looked awesome in a lot of games this season though and against some really good teams as well. The fact that on some days we can be brilliant and some Championship level dreadful shows that we do in fact have the team to play well if the proper tactics are applied and the best players are played in their best position. However, so many times we had no game plan, we had baffling starting line ups, we played combinations of players that just didn't work week in week out despite obvious signs of it not working out, not to mention the baffling, often late substitutions, or lack thereof. The omission of certain players who have proven themselves to be valuable (Gabi, Saliba etc) and the impunity of some who just couldn't be bothered (Willian, Auba). This for me, comes down to the manager. Our mentality is also a big part of the problem, this club has become a heartless business with mainly mercenaries playing for themselves and their earning, not the club, but this is a bigger problem with how the club is run as a whole and one which is much more difficult to solve.

We have had some trophies with Arteta and looked better than we've looked for a long time sometimes, but overall we've been quite bad. I would have some patience with our manager if he showed that he's learning from his mistakes but his arrogant character doesn't really give me much hope for that.

We have a decent team. We need reinforcements to challenge for serious titles but a good manager should be able to get top 6, and even top 4, easily with this team.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:37 pm

Phil71 wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Phil71 wrote:If we don't continually moan about Arteta, or we pull people up for posting unsubstantiated stories as fact, that doesn't mean we love him.

Just pointing that out.

I don't get this. We are firmly mid-table and have been shite for the majority of the season. How can you complain that people continually moan about Arteta ??? What should they do ?? He has been terrible, should people zip their lips just to make you happy Phil ? Get real !!

The moaning I think is an accurate reflection of our season, granted Ozim is probably the poster that never seems to be happy about anything but, for the most part - he is right with his criticism ... but not always. I don't agree with his notion that when we win its the players and when we lose its the manager.


If the criticism is warranted and based on facts then fine. No issue with that.

It's the made up nonsense and speculation presented as fact that I argue against.

And I am not a denier. Apart from when we had that run in December/ January I have not once said that he is doing well or that I'm happy with the situation. But when I pull people up on their nonsense or tedious moaning their only response is that I'm an Arteta lover.

You don't have to love him or hate him. There's a lot of ground between those positions.


It’s not about loving or hating him, it’s about deciding if he’s doing a decent job or a lousy one, clearly it’s a lousy one.

No Arsenal fan should think he’s doing anything but a poor job and that doesn’t deserve support, the club is more important than the manager, he’s rubbish, he’s shown that over a long enough period now, he needs to go.

If you don’t think so you support him and think midtable is acceptable, as I said before it’s not like he’s ever proven he can do better than what he’s doing now.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Nejch » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:40 pm

Ach wrote:Get a quality spine throughout the team and build around them

From who we have now

Leno, quality keeper. Least of our problems.
Gabriel, in and out of the team. Not particularly impressive when he does play but he's new so time is given
Partey, bang average so far. Injury prone. But like Gabriel, first season so hopefully better next season
Auba, world class striker. Played on the left where he's expected to follow the opposition right back instead of playing to his own strengths. That's on Arteta.

If those 4 are fit and on form then that's a decent spine.


Gabriel and Partey are two who should be in our so called spine.

Leno is too shaky to be a number one keeper for any team who's serious about winning titles and Auba just can't be arsed anymore. Should be sold if possible.

Gabriel, Tierney, Partey, ESR, Saka, Martinelli is who we should be building around.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Santi » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:55 pm

Nejch wrote:Jayram, I think you got it exactly backwards. If we were shit all the time, then I would be looking at mainly the players, because the reasoning goes, no matter how we set up or who we choose, we still underperform. We have looked awesome in a lot of games this season though and against some really good teams as well. The fact that on some days we can be brilliant and some Championship level dreadful shows that we do in fact have the team to play well if the proper tactics are applied and the best players are played in their best position. However, so many times we had no game plan, we had baffling starting line ups, we played combinations of players that just didn't work week in week out despite obvious signs of it not working out, not to mention the baffling, often late substitutions, or lack thereof. The omission of certain players who have proven themselves to be valuable (Gabi, Saliba etc) and the impunity of some who just couldn't be bothered (Willian, Auba). This for me, comes down to the manager. Our mentality is also a big part of the problem, this club has become a heartless business with mainly mercenaries playing for themselves and their earning, not the club, but this is a bigger problem with how the club is run as a whole and one which is much more difficult to solve.

We have had some trophies with Arteta and looked better than we've looked for a long time sometimes, but overall we've been quite bad. I would have some patience with our manager if he showed that he's learning from his mistakes but his arrogant character doesn't really give me much hope for that.

We have a decent team. We need reinforcements to challenge for serious titles but a good manager should be able to get top 6, and even top 4, easily with this team.


But that's the problem, one off thee players can be good/great, consistency is their issue and that has been an issue under the last 3 managers.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby VCC » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:38 am

I think the best thing this manager and squad could do is forget about challenging for the PL, 100% focus on winning every game.
Now I am sure that's what is already the focus.
So to summarize " we are f***ked".
For the time being anyway.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Paddy » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:23 am

any rumours of him getting the boot if we lose to slavia? i see none.

are we happy with 10th and no european football next season?
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Arsenal Tone » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:39 am

Darren Bent has warned Arteta he could be sacked if he doesn't win the Europa League! Darren has way too much power at Arsenal these days [emoji38]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... e-23898524

Bloody clickbait title!
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:46 am

Tony Adams wrote:Darren Bent has warned Arteta he could be sacked if he doesn't win the Europa League! Darren has way too much power at Arsenal these days [emoji38]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... e-23898524

Bloody clickbait title!


Lol. Rubbish. Has Darren called Arteta to warn him personally? This is why I prefer the fan blog posts. Mainstream media outlets are just terrible.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Phil71 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:47 am

Özim wrote:
Phil71 wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Phil71 wrote:If we don't continually moan about Arteta, or we pull people up for posting unsubstantiated stories as fact, that doesn't mean we love him.

Just pointing that out.

I don't get this. We are firmly mid-table and have been shite for the majority of the season. How can you complain that people continually moan about Arteta ??? What should they do ?? He has been terrible, should people zip their lips just to make you happy Phil ? Get real !!

The moaning I think is an accurate reflection of our season, granted Ozim is probably the poster that never seems to be happy about anything but, for the most part - he is right with his criticism ... but not always. I don't agree with his notion that when we win its the players and when we lose its the manager.


If the criticism is warranted and based on facts then fine. No issue with that.

It's the made up nonsense and speculation presented as fact that I argue against.

And I am not a denier. Apart from when we had that run in December/ January I have not once said that he is doing well or that I'm happy with the situation. But when I pull people up on their nonsense or tedious moaning their only response is that I'm an Arteta lover.

You don't have to love him or hate him. There's a lot of ground between those positions.


It’s not about loving or hating him, it’s about deciding if he’s doing a decent job or a lousy one, clearly it’s a lousy one.

No Arsenal fan should think he’s doing anything but a poor job and that doesn’t deserve support, the club is more important than the manager, he’s rubbish, he’s shown that over a long enough period now, he needs to go.

If you don’t think so you support him and think midtable is acceptable, as I said before it’s not like he’s ever proven he can do better than what he’s doing now.


I really don't want to get into stating my position repeatedly. That, as I wish you might realise, is very tedious.

However, as you have obviously failed to grasp what I've been saying, probably due to it having been lost amongst the extraordinary number of moaning posts that you repeat ad nauseum, I will state it once more in a crisp and clear fashion.

I don't think Arteta is doing a good job.

I don't care if he is sacked.

I have always supported whomever is in charge, whether I think they are doing a good job or not, right up the point they leave, as I think that is the decent and right thing to do. They are employees of the club who are trying their best to do a good job, and this is not a bear pit, it's a gentleman's football club.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:02 am

That’s where we differ, I don’t support someone doing a terrible job as they’re not good for the club.

Whether he’s doing his best or not doesn’t matter to me, he’s paid lot of money, it’s a job if he can’t do it then get someone else in who can, I have no loyalty to Arteta, as I said he wasn’t the right man in the 1st place anyone can see that.

Nothing against him as a person, he’s just a rubbish manager and not right for this club.

As for being a gentleman’s club, you need to have a look again, perhaps 20 years ago, but certainly not now. Now it’s just a business nothing more. You’re living in the past.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:43 am

Santi wrote:
Nejch wrote:Jayram, I think you got it exactly backwards. If we were shit all the time, then I would be looking at mainly the players, because the reasoning goes, no matter how we set up or who we choose, we still underperform. We have looked awesome in a lot of games this season though and against some really good teams as well. The fact that on some days we can be brilliant and some Championship level dreadful shows that we do in fact have the team to play well if the proper tactics are applied and the best players are played in their best position. However, so many times we had no game plan, we had baffling starting line ups, we played combinations of players that just didn't work week in week out despite obvious signs of it not working out, not to mention the baffling, often late substitutions, or lack thereof. The omission of certain players who have proven themselves to be valuable (Gabi, Saliba etc) and the impunity of some who just couldn't be bothered (Willian, Auba). This for me, comes down to the manager. Our mentality is also a big part of the problem, this club has become a heartless business with mainly mercenaries playing for themselves and their earning, not the club, but this is a bigger problem with how the club is run as a whole and one which is much more difficult to solve.

We have had some trophies with Arteta and looked better than we've looked for a long time sometimes, but overall we've been quite bad. I would have some patience with our manager if he showed that he's learning from his mistakes but his arrogant character doesn't really give me much hope for that.

We have a decent team. We need reinforcements to challenge for serious titles but a good manager should be able to get top 6, and even top 4, easily with this team.


But that's the problem, one off thee players can be good/great, consistency is their issue and that has been an issue under the last 3 managers.



Exactly.
It should always be the players that shoulder the main responsibility for poor performances.
This isn't FIFA 2021. Arteta doesn't have a hand controller for the players' actions.

Arteta's biggest error is persisting with players who simply are not good enough - the exact same error the previous 2 managers made.
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