The Emirates Move

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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby StLGooner » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:54 pm

theHotHead wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
Özim wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
Özim wrote:Would we though, seems to me it was the beginning of the end, once we moved it was downhill from there, we could have moved later on anyhow like other clubs have.

For me there's not been a lot we've done right since the move, the focus on finances was particularly driven by this.



Yes probably. We needed more revenue, hence the new stadium with more seats. We wouldn't be able to compete financially and we still barely can now. Old news. Next topic!


Spurs pretty much kept up and improved without a new stadium, yes finances certainly help, but money from stadiums these days isn't the be all and end all, CL qualification maes a huge difference as does success.

Not convinced myself, like I said, Kroenke would have never come onboard, had he not things might have turned out differently, as mentioned Abramovic may have even bought us (or another billionaire who likes football), the self sustaining model is a pipedream these days, the big clubs usually have rich ambitious owners. We had one of course in Usmanov, but he never had any power.



We kept up too until the last two seasons. Plus Spurs just moved, they were good before they moved. I think you're just going by coincidence too much. Without extra revenue we'd be worse off and without the plans to move, I guarantee you Kroenke wouldn't have even been interested. Or he would have just moved us himself. Plus you're not making much sense. Are you saying that it was some kind of jinx once we moved? You either have a billionaire owner or you try to self sustain. We had neither so had to try something. We were already heading toward this, which the club saw, so they tried to be a self sustaining club and still are. We aren't far off, it does help to have a rich owner though. But we're not City, or Chelsea.

Kept up with who/what? We have not challenged for the league legitimately (Leicester winning season aside) since 2010.



And I said nothing about challenging for the league. Kept up, is different than challenging for the title. It's not as if we have been mid table or worse the past 12 years. We've been right there. So yes, we kept up. Semantics really.
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:16 pm

I don't think it was a wrong decision at the wrong time, it felt right at the time. Where it went wrong was a succession of bad decisions by Wenger.

He didnt need to break up the Invincibles so early, the decision to offer 30 year olds one year contracts only lead to Pires leaving before he should have. Ljungberg left, Vieira wanted to leave so we couldn't stop that.

Wenger changed our style from quick counter attacking play to Barca-Lite, that was the death nell!! Wenger sought out small technical players who would be powerless against the physically strong teams in the Premiership.

Had Wenger not lost the plot the move to the Emirates could and should have been amazing, but he f***ked it up. The money we got from breaking up the Invincibles was chump change.
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:22 pm

StLGooner wrote:And I said nothing about challenging for the league. Kept up, is different than challenging for the title. It's not as if we have been mid table or worse the past 12 years. We've been right there. So yes, we kept up. Semantics really.

Ok so lets be clear, since our move to the Emirates we have fallen way behind our competitors at the time - and a group of newer competitors too.

From finishing top 2 at Highbury we are now finishing 6th!!!
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby StLGooner » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:26 pm

theHotHead wrote:
StLGooner wrote:And I said nothing about challenging for the league. Kept up, is different than challenging for the title. It's not as if we have been mid table or worse the past 12 years. We've been right there. So yes, we kept up. Semantics really.

Ok so lets be clear, since our move to the Emirates we have fallen way behind our competitors at the time - and a group of newer competitors too.

From finishing top 2 at Highbury we are now finishing 6th!!!


But that's only been the last two seasons. Before that we were 4th or better for 11 years after the move. Not what I would call falling way behind. Midtable is falling way behind to me. Yes we have fallen, but before the past couple years it wasn't as bad as some make out. We still competed, just not like we wanted to of course.
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:46 pm

My interpretation of competing is to be able to compete to actually win things. What you are saying really is we have been competing with our peers for a top 4/CL qualifying place.

Emery made us competitive in games against the other top 6 teams which is the only good thing he did during his time here. Based on what I see is your meaning of being competitive, you are right, its the past 2 years we have not been, but a lot lot longer since we were genuine contenders.
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby Özim » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:19 pm

theHotHead wrote:My interpretation of competing is to be able to compete to actually win things. What you are saying really is we have been competing with our peers for a top 4/CL qualifying place.


I think that's most peoples' idea of competing, competing for top 4 is something Wenger was obssessed with, seems like it rubbed off on some of the fanbase. This is where we are now, success is winning nothing but getting into the top 4.
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby Özim » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:20 pm

StLGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
StLGooner wrote:And I said nothing about challenging for the league. Kept up, is different than challenging for the title. It's not as if we have been mid table or worse the past 12 years. We've been right there. So yes, we kept up. Semantics really.

Ok so lets be clear, since our move to the Emirates we have fallen way behind our competitors at the time - and a group of newer competitors too.

From finishing top 2 at Highbury we are now finishing 6th!!!


But that's only been the last two seasons. Before that we were 4th or better for 11 years after the move. Not what I would call falling way behind. Midtable is falling way behind to me. Yes we have fallen, but before the past couple years it wasn't as bad as some make out. We still competed, just not like we wanted to of course.


4th isn't competing, it's getting into the CL for the money. Everytime we qualified we made lots of money, but then we got thumped every season in the process, we didn't compete, we made up the numbers.

Getting into the top 4 should be a stepping stone, you get more money then you invest and get better like Liverpool until you're competing for the big prizes or winning them.

Us getting into the top 4 for so many years didn't progress the team/club, it just made those in charge richer.
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby StLGooner » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:44 pm

Özim wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
StLGooner wrote:And I said nothing about challenging for the league. Kept up, is different than challenging for the title. It's not as if we have been mid table or worse the past 12 years. We've been right there. So yes, we kept up. Semantics really.

Ok so lets be clear, since our move to the Emirates we have fallen way behind our competitors at the time - and a group of newer competitors too.

From finishing top 2 at Highbury we are now finishing 6th!!!


But that's only been the last two seasons. Before that we were 4th or better for 11 years after the move. Not what I would call falling way behind. Midtable is falling way behind to me. Yes we have fallen, but before the past couple years it wasn't as bad as some make out. We still competed, just not like we wanted to of course.


4th isn't competing, it's getting into the CL for the money. Everytime we qualified we made lots of money, but then we got thumped every season in the process, we didn't compete, we made up the numbers.

Getting into the top 4 should be a stepping stone, you get more money then you invest and get better like Liverpool until you're competing for the big prizes or winning them.

Us getting into the top 4 for so many years didn't progress the team/club, it just made those in charge richer.


I didn't say anything about progression though. You can define competing or kept up however you want, point is, we didn't dramatically fall from grace into mid table mediocrity did we. You're arguing over semantics homie.
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby Rockape » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:44 pm

You have to remember that back in the day, there was no Russian and Middle eastern money fueled clubs to compete with, mostly just Man U and LFC, so top three was not great then.....then we had the big four, so top four was the least we expected. Then it became the top six and it became more difficult for us, as money was coming into Clubs that previously weren't able to keep up. Now we have not only got half a dozen other clubs on an equal or better financial footing and have made some serious errors in Management in the past half dozen years........and the effect is where we are now.

It's not an easy route back either! Top four is a definate achievement now! (for us!)
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby StLGooner » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:45 pm

theHotHead wrote:My interpretation of competing is to be able to compete to actually win things. What you are saying really is we have been competing with our peers for a top 4/CL qualifying place.

Emery made us competitive in games against the other top 6 teams which is the only good thing he did during his time here. Based on what I see is your meaning of being competitive, you are right, its the past 2 years we have not been, but a lot lot longer since we were genuine contenders.



Like I said semantics. Bottom line is we weren't that far off, and the move only hampered us a bit. The bad decisions after that was the real culprit, not the move to the Emirates itself.
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:33 pm

It wasn't just the move to the Emirates. I can't stress enough how most the policies from Wenger were a result of his beliefs and not something thrust upon him because of the stadium.

Wenger had that 'social wage structure' in place before the Emirates and believed to his core that there shouldn't be a massive disparity between players when it came wages. That sort of policy would have always caused a problem with star players being tempted to move elsewhere.

Rolling contract for over 30s - Another policy that meant we'd lose a lot of experienced players quickly. Aging players were expendable and you only have to look at how Bergkamp was treated one summer with his contract situation. When players start to hit their late 20s, you've had a few injuries and contracts are due for renewal soon, the club would look to sell. That's what happened with Vieria at least. Along with the silly wage structure, you could see how we'd end up going down a youth path because that's what we valued more.

Unknown Talent - Wenger had a rep for buying unknown talent at cheap prices. That also what caused a riff between him and Vieira, later Henry and then players like Cesc and RVP. Wenger's talent was always in developing unknown players and turning them into superstars. But it's also worth looking at the amount of duds he used to sign before transfer fees went crazy.

Chelsa/Man City - outside of Wenger, nothing could have been done about Chelsea and City. Teams around us had more money, got better managers and better players. Staying at the Emirates with Wenger wouldn't have changed that.
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby VCC » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:02 pm

Rockape wrote:You have to remember that back in the day, there was no Russian and Middle eastern money fueled clubs to compete with, mostly just Man U and LFC, so top three was not great then.....then we had the big four, so top four was the least we expected. Then it became the top six and it became more difficult for us, as money was coming into Clubs that previously weren't able to keep up. Now we have not only got half a dozen other clubs on an equal or better financial footing and have made some serious errors in Management in the past half dozen years........and the effect is where we are now.

It's not an easy route back either! Top four is a definate achievement now! (for us!)

I have basicly said this in the past, but fast forward to the end of the AW dictatorship tha AW fans would have you think top 4 was always a challenge that it has now become fact is it wasnt
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:28 pm

Nail on head PnG. Wenger was the sole architect for our downfall in the Emirates era. Arrogant, stubborn and a fooking eejut in the end.
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby Marsbar100 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:07 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talksport. ... manov/amp/

Unlucky to have a poor owner, hopefully kroenke will sell eventually
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Re: The Emirates Move

Postby Ach » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:55 pm

Özim wrote:
Ach wrote:Bad business decisions along with bad football decisions. Not a good combo.

We stood still for so long and others passed us by and instead of responding and reacting, we decline further.

I can understand moving to a bigger stadium but ineptness has cost us


I agree, had we had ambition we could have used what we had to our advantage, instead we basically wasted it completely, we couldn't really have got it more wrong, if you look at the club now and compare it to the club 15 years ago before the move it's unrecognisable, we've gone from a side with great players, success, great football on an upward curve with ambitions of competing with the best in Europe, to a club with barely any top players, no success, average football on the decline with zero ambition.

Make you sick when you see a well run club like Liverpool who have made the most of what they had and importantly always aspired to be the best now dominating, that could easily have been us if we'd focussed on football rather than making money.

There was no ambition indeed. Content with finishing top 4 every season came back to bite us on the ass. We should be targeting the title and if we fail we probably get top 4 anyway. Aim for top 4 and fail? This is where we're at.

We should've gone in to the new stadium with the majority of the invincibles intact to help us with the transition but of course Wenger got rid too soon too quick and got weak ass players to try and copy Barca instead of sticking to what he was good at.

Decline has been coming for ages and we've hit rock bottom now.

I'm forever optimistic and the only way is up from here on in
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