North London Powershift

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Re: North London Powershift

Postby EliteKiller » Sat May 25, 2019 9:51 am

jayramfootball wrote:"money, manager, players, corporate, sponsors, merchandising".

Money, corporate, sponsors and merchandising is all about just money. We already know the total impact on revenues from all those things - £20m difference assuming last 16 in the CL.


That's where we disagree ... you are assuming we can't get past the last 16 in the CL yet guaranteeing we reach the final of the EL ... that's obviously ridiculous ....

Look at it another way -- forget Wonger and his 20 years of European failure -- look at what is happening right now with EPL clubs

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-much-lpool-man-utd-city-spurs-have-earned-from-the-cl-this-term/

The maximum from the CL is around 110m - both Spurs and Liverpool will pick up that much this year

City and Utd will pick up some 90m each ....

Yet you are suggesting the if we were in the CL then the most we could get is 42m? how did you get there .... We are a top six EPL club, are we that much worse than Utd and Spurs?

You further compound your inaccuracy by using the maximum we can get from the EL, that assumes we are winning it and getting 22m -- how often has that happened to us?

Thus to claim the difference between a potential 110m, with a probable 90m from the CL, and a maximum 22m from the EL, is just 20m -- how does that begin to make sense?

If all the EPL sides in the CL were failing and picking up just 42m each you might have a point, but very obviously they are not .... what happened between 2001 and 2016 doesn't mean a hill of beans in 2019 .... we are where we are, as good or better than the EPL clubs coining it in the CL right now.

So
We already know the total impact on revenues from all those things - £20m


Sorry I call complete bullshit ......
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby jayramfootball » Sat May 25, 2019 10:09 am

EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:"money, manager, players, corporate, sponsors, merchandising".

Money, corporate, sponsors and merchandising is all about just money. We already know the total impact on revenues from all those things - £20m difference assuming last 16 in the CL.


That's where we disagree ... you are assuming we can't get past the last 16 in the CL yet guaranteeing we reach the final of the EL ... that's obviously ridiculous ....

Look at it another way -- forget Wonger and his 20 years of European failure -- look at what is happening right now with EPL clubs

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-much-lpool-man-utd-city-spurs-have-earned-from-the-cl-this-term/

The maximum from the CL is around 110m - both Spurs and Liverpool will pick up that much this year

City and Utd will pick up some 90m each ....

Yet you are suggesting the if we were in the CL then the most we could get is 42m? how did you get there .... We are a top six EPL club, are we that much worse than Utd and Spurs?

You further compound your inaccuracy by using the maximum we can get from the EL, that assumes we are winning it and getting 22m -- how often has that happened to us?

Thus to claim the difference between a potential 110m, with a probable 90m from the CL, and a maximum 22m from the EL, is just 20m -- how does that begin to make sense?

If all the EPL sides in the CL were failing and picking up just 42m each you might have a point, but very obviously they are not .... what happened between 2001 and 2016 doesn't mean a hill of beans in 2019 .... we are where we are, as good or better than the EPL clubs coining it in the CL right now.

So
We already know the total impact on revenues from all those things - £20m


Sorry I call complete bullshit ......


There's your problem - you are calling REALITY complete bullshit. We earned £20m more in our last CL season than we did this year in our EL season.
You are replacing reality with a fantasy that we can win the CL at our current level. The reason you don't understand why the CL is not important finacially right now for us is that you have completely unrealistic expectations that we could go deep in the tournament and win it. It's not bad that you are a dreamer who sees us winning the CL, far from it, but not everyone wants to live in a fantasy world.

When you understand the reality of the situation, you'll understand why some people couldn't give a toss about the CL and just want us to get back to competing in the Premier League.
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby EliteKiller » Sat May 25, 2019 11:09 am

jayramfootball wrote:There's your problem - you are calling REALITY complete bullshit. We earned £20m more in our last CL season than we did this year in our EL season.


But it's not my problem it's yours ... what we did three years ago matters not one bit in the REALITY of today ... to work out the potential difference in our income you have to compare today's 2019 CL income with today's 2019 EL income ... anything else means precisely zip.

Should we use transfer prices from three years ago when comparing today's value ... that makes about as much sense as using three year old CL income figures ... can't you understand that?

It's an argument we don't have to keep going ... we will soon know what the EPL clubs in the CL receive and what the EPL clubs in the EL receive .... I will 100% guarantee the difference will be well over 22m ...

Now if like HotHead you think we're so shit we can't do as well as Spuds, Dippers, United, Ajax, or Porto (note I never once said we'd win it, just do as well as the other EPL clubs) ... then perhaps you need to have a bit more faith ....
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby Dejan » Sat May 25, 2019 11:14 am

jayramfootball wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:"money, manager, players, corporate, sponsors, merchandising".

Money, corporate, sponsors and merchandising is all about just money. We already know the total impact on revenues from all those things - £20m difference assuming last 16 in the CL.


That's where we disagree ... you are assuming we can't get past the last 16 in the CL yet guaranteeing we reach the final of the EL ... that's obviously ridiculous ....

Look at it another way -- forget Wonger and his 20 years of European failure -- look at what is happening right now with EPL clubs

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-much-lpool-man-utd-city-spurs-have-earned-from-the-cl-this-term/

The maximum from the CL is around 110m - both Spurs and Liverpool will pick up that much this year

City and Utd will pick up some 90m each ....

Yet you are suggesting the if we were in the CL then the most we could get is 42m? how did you get there .... We are a top six EPL club, are we that much worse than Utd and Spurs?

You further compound your inaccuracy by using the maximum we can get from the EL, that assumes we are winning it and getting 22m -- how often has that happened to us?

Thus to claim the difference between a potential 110m, with a probable 90m from the CL, and a maximum 22m from the EL, is just 20m -- how does that begin to make sense?

If all the EPL sides in the CL were failing and picking up just 42m each you might have a point, but very obviously they are not .... what happened between 2001 and 2016 doesn't mean a hill of beans in 2019 .... we are where we are, as good or better than the EPL clubs coining it in the CL right now.

So
We already know the total impact on revenues from all those things - £20m


Sorry I call complete bullshit ......


There's your problem - you are calling REALITY complete bullshit. We earned £20m more in our last CL season than we did this year in our EL season.
You are replacing reality with a fantasy that we can win the CL at our current level. The reason you don't understand why the CL is not important finacially right now for us is that you have completely unrealistic expectations that we could go deep in the tournament and win it. It's not bad that you are a dreamer who sees us winning the CL, far from it, but not everyone wants to live in a fantasy world.

When you understand the reality of the situation, you'll understand why some people couldn't give a toss about the CL and just want us to get back to competing in the Premier League.
Havent looked at al the figures in this thread but you are comparing a cl income from 2 years ago to the europa league now. Surely the cl money has increased in the last 2 years?

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Re: North London Powershift

Postby jayramfootball » Sat May 25, 2019 11:19 am

EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:There's your problem - you are calling REALITY complete bullshit. We earned £20m more in our last CL season than we did this year in our EL season.


But it's not my problem it's yours ... what we did three years ago matters not one bit in the REALITY of today ... to work out the potential difference in our income you have to compare today's 2019 CL income with today's 2019 EL income ... anything else means precisely zip.

Should we use transfer prices from three years ago when comparing today's value ... that makes about as much sense as using three year old CL income figures ... can't you understand that?

It's an argument we don't have to keep going ... we will soon know what the EPL clubs in the CL receive and what the EPL clubs in the EL receive .... I will 100% guarantee the difference will be well over 22m ...

Now if you think we're so shit we can't do as well as Spuds, Dippers, United, Ajax, Porto (I never once said we'd win it but we certainly won't if we're not even in it) ... then perhaps you need to have more faith ....


Todays finalsists of the EL get around £20m, last 16 of the CL get around £40m. £20m difference.
Thats what has actually happened for us....as in... ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

Like I said, you can live in the fantasy of something different happening in the future. Others, like me, are more interested in our Premier League progression and don't care too much about the CL. Whether you like it or not, we're not as good as the dippers or the spuds. We're also not as good as this current Ajax team. We're about good enough to get to the last 16 of the CL. I know that because in our last 6 outings in the CL we've reached the same stage and we've not got any better as a team... back to reality again.

Don't get me wrong, if we're in the CL, great, but I will have no illusion that we'll win win it because that is not going to happen until we improve as a team - a lot.
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby jayramfootball » Sat May 25, 2019 11:25 am

Dejan wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:"money, manager, players, corporate, sponsors, merchandising".

Money, corporate, sponsors and merchandising is all about just money. We already know the total impact on revenues from all those things - £20m difference assuming last 16 in the CL.


That's where we disagree ... you are assuming we can't get past the last 16 in the CL yet guaranteeing we reach the final of the EL ... that's obviously ridiculous ....

Look at it another way -- forget Wonger and his 20 years of European failure -- look at what is happening right now with EPL clubs

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-much-lpool-man-utd-city-spurs-have-earned-from-the-cl-this-term/

The maximum from the CL is around 110m - both Spurs and Liverpool will pick up that much this year

City and Utd will pick up some 90m each ....

Yet you are suggesting the if we were in the CL then the most we could get is 42m? how did you get there .... We are a top six EPL club, are we that much worse than Utd and Spurs?

You further compound your inaccuracy by using the maximum we can get from the EL, that assumes we are winning it and getting 22m -- how often has that happened to us?

Thus to claim the difference between a potential 110m, with a probable 90m from the CL, and a maximum 22m from the EL, is just 20m -- how does that begin to make sense?

If all the EPL sides in the CL were failing and picking up just 42m each you might have a point, but very obviously they are not .... what happened between 2001 and 2016 doesn't mean a hill of beans in 2019 .... we are where we are, as good or better than the EPL clubs coining it in the CL right now.

So
We already know the total impact on revenues from all those things - £20m


Sorry I call complete bullshit ......


There's your problem - you are calling REALITY complete bullshit. We earned £20m more in our last CL season than we did this year in our EL season.
You are replacing reality with a fantasy that we can win the CL at our current level. The reason you don't understand why the CL is not important finacially right now for us is that you have completely unrealistic expectations that we could go deep in the tournament and win it. It's not bad that you are a dreamer who sees us winning the CL, far from it, but not everyone wants to live in a fantasy world.

When you understand the reality of the situation, you'll understand why some people couldn't give a toss about the CL and just want us to get back to competing in the Premier League.
Havent looked at al the figures in this thread but you are comparing a cl income from 2 years ago to the europa league now. Surely the cl money has increased in the last 2 years?

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CL group stages - around £40m
EL finalists - around £20m

That's today.

The nonsensical arguments seem to be that, financially, we NEED to be in the CL because we MIGHT win it and make £80m or Spurs got £80m so we have to be in it. Stupid arguments that are not rooted in any kind of reality of what we need as a club.

Money is not our issue. We have loads of it. If you follow our accounts you will see that DESPITE spending a net of over £200m on players in the last 5 years, our cash balance has grown by £100m.... and yet some are arguing that an extra £20m is somehow vital to us. Hell, even an extra £80m is not vital to us. Not even close to the most important things that we need as a club.
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby EliteKiller » Sat May 25, 2019 11:46 am

jayramfootball wrote:CL group stages - around £40m
EL finalists - around £20m

That's today.

The nonsensical arguments seem to be that, financially, we NEED to be in the CL because we MIGHT win it and make £80m or Spurs got £80m so we have to be in it. Stupid arguments that are not rooted in any kind of reality of what we need as a club.

Money is not our issue. We have loads of it. If you follow our accounts you will see that DESPITE spending a net of over £200m on players in the last 5 years, our cash balance has grown by £100m.... and yet some are arguing that an extra £20m is somehow vital to us. Hell, even an extra £80m is not vital to us. Not even close to the most important things that we need as a club.


Just give it up .... 20m doesn't matter 80m doesn't matter of course it does ....

As I said we will see what the EPL clubs earn very soon ...

The very REAL argument is that four of our EPL rivals will earn between 70m and 90m more than us by playing CL football ... that's a brutal fact

Money is very much our issue ... we were the 2nd highest earners in the EPL we are now 4th soon to be 5th or even 6th .... if you can't see that 20 years ago being almost level on income with man Utd allowed us to be consistently one of the top two clubs, and that now being 5th or 6th on income has seen us consistently finish 5th or 6th .... then you simply don't understand football finance ...

Put simply Utd have always been top dog but City have passed us, Liverpool have passed us, Chelsea have passed us, and worst next year Spuds will pass us as well ... if you think 22m from CL football will put us back in the top four ... dream on
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby jayramfootball » Sat May 25, 2019 12:00 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:CL group stages - around £40m
EL finalists - around £20m

That's today.

The nonsensical arguments seem to be that, financially, we NEED to be in the CL because we MIGHT win it and make £80m or Spurs got £80m so we have to be in it. Stupid arguments that are not rooted in any kind of reality of what we need as a club.

Money is not our issue. We have loads of it. If you follow our accounts you will see that DESPITE spending a net of over £200m on players in the last 5 years, our cash balance has grown by £100m.... and yet some are arguing that an extra £20m is somehow vital to us. Hell, even an extra £80m is not vital to us. Not even close to the most important things that we need as a club.


Just give it up .... 20m doesn't matter 80m doesn't matter of course it does ....

As I said we will see what the EPL clubs earn very soon ...

The very REAL argument is that four of our EPL rivals will earn between 70m and 90m more than us by playing CL football ... that's a brutal fact

Money is very much our issue ... we were the 2nd highest earners in the EPL we are now 4th soon to be 5th or even 6th .... if you can't see that 20 years ago being almost level on income with man Utd allowed us to be consistently one of the top two clubs, and that now being 5th or 6th on income has seen us consistently finish 5th or 6th .... then you simply don't understand football finance ...

Put simply Utd have always been top dog but City have passed us, Liverpool have passed us, Chelsea have passed us, and worst next year Spuds will pass us as well ... if you think 22m from CL football will put us back in the top four ... dream on


You are still in fantasy land. You might think that " four of our EPL rivals will earn between 70m and 90m more than us by playing CL football " is a "brutal fact", but in fact, it's nonsense. Brutally so.

Man Utd will have earned about £20m more than our EL run.
Man City around £30m more than our EL run.
Spurs and Liverpool £50-£60m more than our EL run.

This year we'll still have higher revenues than Spurs.
City and Utd will have more money than us regardless of their CL performances. I guess you've given up competing with them...because.. money.
Liverpool already make more than us too. No point trying to compete with them, then.

Having more money is not the differentiator. At a certain level, which we are well over, there is enough money to bring in players that will allow us to compete. We made more money than Spurs last year - yet they finished above us in the league and got to a CL final. Shock horror, how can that be????? I'll give you a little hint. Spurs previously had signed Moussa Sosoko for £30m and we signed Xhaka for £40m... I could go on with the comparisons.
We simply don't need a last 16 performance in the CL to progress. We need wise signings to build our team. As soon as you get money out of your head you might start to understand football a little better. The fact you've gone on record saying "money is our issue", after we've made a fortune, spending £200m+ net on players in the last 5 years (more than Spurs and Liverpool), whilst sitting on nearly £250m cash in the bank , tells me you are woefully short on understanding what our real issues are.

Our revenue was not close to Manchester Utds 20 years ago. We didn't compete with them because of money. It's because we brought in great players - rather cheaply I might add. Like Anelka...Vieira...Petit. In fact our big rise in revenues after the stadium move brought a DECLINE in performances.

You are not very good with facts, brutal ones or otherwise.
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby EliteKiller » Sat May 25, 2019 1:35 pm

jayramfootball wrote:You are still in fantasy land. You might think that " four of our EPL rivals will earn between 70m and 90m more than us by playing CL football " is a "brutal fact", but in fact, it's nonsense. Brutally so.

Man Utd will have earned about £20m more than our EL run.
Man City around £30m more than our EL run.
Spurs and Liverpool £50-£60m more than our EL run.



Seems UEFA disagree with you ... thanks to Swiss Rambler and UEFA

With everything included – participation, performance, TV pool and coefficient ranking – Manchester United have actually earned the most so far with €94m, then City just behind with €93m, then Liverpool on €92m, with Spurs earning €86m.

That could change depending on how Spurs and Liverpool do in the upcoming semis against Ajax and Barcelona.

www.uefa.com

As we now know Spurs and Liverpool won their semi finals and one of them will now earn close to 110m ....

I know you're struggling with math so I'll make it simple ...

Utd 94m less Arsenal 22m = +72m
City 93m less Arsenal 22m = +71m
Liverpool 110m less Arsenal 22m = +88m
Spuds 104m less less Arsenal 22m = +82m

Seems I was right and you were talking bullshit all along .... didn't we cover this a few hours ago?

The point remains the same when our main rivals have caught and gone past us financially pissing about the EL will just see us dropping further behind .... we need to beat Chelsea and get back into the CL to not do so will be a disaster off and then on the pitch.
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby CaptGooner » Sat May 25, 2019 1:58 pm

Financials are important but we need CL football to attract top talent. What up and coming player who may already be playing CL football (small league) wants to jump to play EL?
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby jayramfootball » Sat May 25, 2019 4:28 pm

CaptGooner wrote:Financials are important but we need CL football to attract top talent. What up and coming player who may already be playing CL football (small league) wants to jump to play EL?


Attracting top talent IS important - agreed - the money is far les simportant as we have plenty and it's more important to spend it wisely to bring in the right players. You don't need to be in the CL to attract top talent.
Some people think titles are dished out depending on bank balance. I don't understasnd how they can be so negative. If it's all about money we may as well pack up. City have the most and we're not catching them - ever.
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby jayramfootball » Sat May 25, 2019 4:37 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:You are still in fantasy land. You might think that " four of our EPL rivals will earn between 70m and 90m more than us by playing CL football " is a "brutal fact", but in fact, it's nonsense. Brutally so.

Man Utd will have earned about £20m more than our EL run.
Man City around £30m more than our EL run.
Spurs and Liverpool £50-£60m more than our EL run.



Seems UEFA disagree with you ... thanks to Swiss Rambler and UEFA

With everything included – participation, performance, TV pool and coefficient ranking – Manchester United have actually earned the most so far with €94m, then City just behind with €93m, then Liverpool on €92m, with Spurs earning €86m.

That could change depending on how Spurs and Liverpool do in the upcoming semis against Ajax and Barcelona.

www.uefa.com

As we now know Spurs and Liverpool won their semi finals and one of them will now earn close to 110m ....

I know you're struggling with math so I'll make it simple ...

Utd 94m less Arsenal 22m = +72m
City 93m less Arsenal 22m = +71m
Liverpool 110m less Arsenal 22m = +88m
Spuds 104m less less Arsenal 22m = +82m

Seems I was right and you were talking bullshit all along .... didn't we cover this a few hours ago?

The point remains the same when our main rivals have caught and gone past us financially pissing about the EL will just see us dropping further behind .... we need to beat Chelsea and get back into the CL to not do so will be a disaster off and then on the pitch.


If you are including all money then you need to do the same for the EL., According to Forbes:

If it wins on Wednesday, Arsenal will have earned roughly €45 million in this season's Europa League between prize money and market share.


So let's redo your incorrect maths.
Utd - 49m more
City - 48m more
Liverpool - 65m more
Spurs - 59m more

But regardless of your incorrect comparsion - who cares?

We have plenty of money and we don;t need to be in the CL right now to progress - which is the point.

Thanks
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby theHotHead » Sat May 25, 2019 10:13 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:"money, manager, players, corporate, sponsors, merchandising".

Money, corporate, sponsors and merchandising is all about just money. We already know the total impact on revenues from all those things - £20m difference assuming last 16 in the CL.


That's where we disagree ... you are assuming we can't get past the last 16 in the CL yet guaranteeing we reach the final of the EL ... that's obviously ridiculous ....

Look at it another way -- forget Wonger and his 20 years of European failure -- look at what is happening right now with EPL clubs

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-much-lpool-man-utd-city-spurs-have-earned-from-the-cl-this-term/

The maximum from the CL is around 110m - both Spurs and Liverpool will pick up that much this year

City and Utd will pick up some 90m each ....

Yet you are suggesting the if we were in the CL then the most we could get is 42m? how did you get there .... We are a top six EPL club, are we that much worse than Utd and Spurs?

You further compound your inaccuracy by using the maximum we can get from the EL, that assumes we are winning it and getting 22m -- how often has that happened to us?

Thus to claim the difference between a potential 110m, with a probable 90m from the CL, and a maximum 22m from the EL, is just 20m -- how does that begin to make sense?

If all the EPL sides in the CL were failing and picking up just 42m each you might have a point, but very obviously they are not .... what happened between 2001 and 2016 doesn't mean a hill of beans in 2019 .... we are where we are, as good or better than the EPL clubs coining it in the CL right now.

So
We already know the total impact on revenues from all those things - £20m


Sorry I call complete bullshit ......


There's your problem - you are calling REALITY complete bullshit. We earned £20m more in our last CL season than we did this year in our EL season.
You are replacing reality with a fantasy that we can win the CL at our current level. The reason you don't understand why the CL is not important finacially right now for us is that you have completely unrealistic expectations that we could go deep in the tournament and win it. It's not bad that you are a dreamer who sees us winning the CL, far from it, but not everyone wants to live in a fantasy world.

When you understand the reality of the situation, you'll understand why some people couldn't give a toss about the CL and just want us to get back to competing in the Premier League.

Exactly this!! With better players than we have now our finishing spot in the CL wad typically the Round of 16. That as you say Jay is reality, you cannot get more realistically than basing figured on real life, real world actual results.

EK doesn't get it and for all of his essays his made up figures miss the point. Yes we "might" go on a run to the CL final next season if by some fortune we qualify and Emery has the luck of the Irish and the various gods approve. Otherwise its a pie in the sky dream that we will get any further than - the round of 16 and earn the same money we have been earning for crashing out at that stage.

You can't build a business model on pie in the sky numbers, you have to be realistic otherwise you get laughed out of town
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby theHotHead » Sat May 25, 2019 10:36 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:You are still in fantasy land. You might think that " four of our EPL rivals will earn between 70m and 90m more than us by playing CL football " is a "brutal fact", but in fact, it's nonsense. Brutally so.

Man Utd will have earned about £20m more than our EL run.
Man City around £30m more than our EL run.
Spurs and Liverpool £50-£60m more than our EL run.



Seems UEFA disagree with you ... thanks to Swiss Rambler and UEFA

With everything included – participation, performance, TV pool and coefficient ranking – Manchester United have actually earned the most so far with €94m, then City just behind with €93m, then Liverpool on €92m, with Spurs earning €86m.

That could change depending on how Spurs and Liverpool do in the upcoming semis against Ajax and Barcelona.

www.uefa.com

As we now know Spurs and Liverpool won their semi finals and one of them will now earn close to 110m ....

I know you're struggling with math so I'll make it simple ...

Utd 94m less Arsenal 22m = +72m
City 93m less Arsenal 22m = +71m
Liverpool 110m less Arsenal 22m = +88m
Spuds 104m less less Arsenal 22m = +82m

Seems I was right and you were talking bullshit all along .... didn't we cover this a few hours ago?

The point remains the same when our main rivals have caught and gone past us financially pissing about the EL will just see us dropping further behind .... we need to beat Chelsea and get back into the CL to not do so will be a disaster off and then on the pitch.

Absolute twaddle. Swiss ramble does not know, for example, the market share for each club when it comes to the TV pool of €292m shared between the clubs, so until the financials are released by UEFA the figures are just hearsay. You can only base figures on real, actual figures, like I have said over and over.

No amount of fantasy figures are proof of anything. €110m my arse! Liverpool earned €81m getting to the final last season. Lets see what they get this season.
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Re: North London Powershift

Postby EliteKiller » Sun May 26, 2019 12:26 am

You have to laugh - HotHead and jayramfootball get a room ...

You say CL for Arsenal isn't financially that much different than EL -- we get it
You say we don't need to earn as much money as our rivals because "we have enough" -- we get it
You say Swiss Ramble and UEFA figures are wrong -- we get it
You say players transferring don't care about CL football -- we get it

You say that not having CL, not having the same level of income, and not aiming at winning the big prizes is not an issue -- we get it

I say you're talking complete bollocks, others can make up their own minds ....
EliteKiller
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