In Arsène We Trust ~ Victoria Concordia Crescit

[Phil71]

Wenger can't take all the blame. Emery is a tinker man. He frequently changes formation and team selection from game to game so there is no consistency. No key partnerships have been formed, players come into form and then lose it quickly because they're rotated out of the squad and come back into a different system. Just look at the squad over the last 10 games and you won't find any sort of consistency in selection or system. I don't know a single top manager that operates that way successfully. Wenger can't keep taking the blame because we have had some games where we have ripped teams but never maintain the form.

Who bought these players? Who assembled the squad that was supposed to be good enough to challenge? Who led the squad on a downward spiral causing untold psychological and confidence damage to these players who were never good enough?

The vast majority of the issues Emery is having to deal with are a result of Wenger's legacy.

Phil... You're still not getting it. Football management is more than just buying and selecting players. You have to get your head around that because it can be easily argued that Wenger didn't have a big enough budget to but the exact players he needed because of the owner. I'm not arguing that line of BS but just saying it's the same sort of cowardly train of thought that passes on all accountability for management. Hell, I've even seen people look to blame Steve Bould for his part before looking at Emery but if we're following that line of 'it's not his fault, he didn't but the players' then that absolves him of responsibility too.

Don’t patronise me about football management. I know as much as anyone on here about it.

Wenger had the money. He spent it unwisely. One example; he spent a combined £70m on Xhaka and that clown Mustafi. For that combined fee he could have got Van Dijk from Southampton. Probably less than that. He chose not to spend that much on a single player.

Yes there were periods where he didn’t have money, but even then he had more than enough to build a decent squad. Instead he filled it with mostly poor to average players, and wouldn’t let go of his protégés like Walcott and Chamberlain when they were either injury prone or not good enough. He also wasted the club’s money renewing the contracts of crocks like Diaby. He bought poor player after poor player. Sanogo, Chamakh, Sylvestre, Denilson, and countless mor with zero re-sale value.

If the club decide to get shot of Emery I do t really care to be honest. I think that would be the wrong decision but hey ho. But Wenger is to blame for the current situation we are in of having a squad full of poor players on big money. Him alone.

I give up man..you say not to patronise and you know about football management like the rest of us but continue to talk about money and signings despite me saying there is more to football management.

Of course there is! But that is the basis of it. Finding the right players or making the decision that the players you have are good enough.

You can be the greatest football manager the world has ever seen, but if you have shit players you’ll get nowhere and win nothing.

[Power n Glory]

Phil... explain to me how we managed to pull off good performances at all this season? Spurs, Man Utd, Chelsea and other performances where we looked convincing? If they weren't good enough at and it had nothing at all to do with motivation and preparation from the manager, we wouldn't win these sort of games at all.

[Phil71]

Phil... explain to me how we managed to pull off good performances at all this season? Spurs, Man Utd, Chelsea and other performances where we looked convincing? If they weren't good enough at and it had nothing at all to do with motivation and preparation from the manager, we wouldn't win these sort of games at all.

They are inconsistent and have an inconsistent attitude in my opinion. Both from game to game and in-game.

Manchester United have a similar problem at the moment.

Emery will have had this season to make judgements on these players, and decide who is capable, who wants to play the game and who doesn’t.

He said after the game last night during his press conference- when he was asked if he was angry at half time - that he questions himself first, and doesn’t always think first about why certain players don’t do the things they have agreed to do in the hours and days spent in training and planning before the game.

These are professional footballers. Professional people. If they have shown that they have neither the capability or the inclination to do as they are asked to do by their manager, and to do their bit for the team and the club they should be shipped out. Sold for whatever we can get for them.

Get players in who want to do it and have the ability to do it. All game every game. Not just when they feel like it.

[CrimsonGunner11]

Our wage bill has been one of the highest in the PL for years. On what? Average dross who regularly get out-fought and over-run by second rate teams who’s players don’t earn anywhere near as much. The difference is those other players have that spirit, determination and will to win that Wenger kept wrongly attributing to his own team

Wenger sometimes lost the battle against those teams but, up until his final few years, ended up always winning the war. Those average players on high salaries got the club CL football for many years despite having no right to from a neutral’s perspective. Assuming the strategy was intentional, then it seemed to have ran its course towards the end of Wenger’s reign.

In addition to the effects of certain clubs having large amounts of money to spend, the sudden end to our consistent top 4 finishes tells me that possibly somewhere along the lines, complacency had set in among the suits upstairs and the player management staff which resulted in

1) inefficient player turnover and
2) inefficient scouting of players, most likely among other things.

When you consider the duration and consistency of the team qualifying for the CL with Wenger plus the hierarchy’s lack of ambition regarding winning major trophies, I think this theory is not beyond the realms of possibility.

[Phil71]

Our wage bill has been one of the highest in the PL for years. On what? Average dross who regularly get out-fought and over-run by second rate teams who’s players don’t earn anywhere near as much. The difference is those other players have that spirit, determination and will to win that Wenger kept wrongly attributing to his own team

Wenger sometimes lost the battle against those teams but, up until his final few years, ended up always winning the war. Those average players on high salaries got the club CL football for many years despite having no right to from a neutral’s perspective. Assuming the strategy was intentional, then it seemed to have ran its course towards the end of Wenger’s reign.

In addition to the effects of certain clubs having large amounts of money to spend, the sudden end to our consistent top 4 finishes tells me that possibly somewhere along the lines, complacency had set in among the suits upstairs and the player management staff which resulted in

1) inefficient player turnover and
2) inefficient scouting of players, most likely among other things.

When you consider the duration and consistency of the team qualifying for the CL with Wenger plus the hierarchy’s lack of ambition regarding winning major trophies, I think this theory is not beyond the realms of possibility.

Fair enough, but qualification was often just about, and that started to fall apart when Liverpool and Tottenham got their acts together.

[Power n Glory]

Phil... explain to me how we managed to pull off good performances at all this season? Spurs, Man Utd, Chelsea and other performances where we looked convincing? If they weren't good enough at and it had nothing at all to do with motivation and preparation from the manager, we wouldn't win these sort of games at all.

They are inconsistent and have an inconsistent attitude in my opinion. Both from game to game and in-game.

Manchester United have a similar problem at the moment.

Emery will have had this season to make judgements on these players, and decide who is capable, who wants to play the game and who doesn’t.

He said after the game last night during his press conference- when he was asked if he was angry at half time - that he questions himself first, and doesn’t always think first about why certain players don’t do the things they have agreed to do in the hours and days spent in training and planning before the game.

These are professional footballers. Professional people. If they have shown that they have neither the capability or the inclination to do as they are asked to do by their manager, and to do their bit for the team and the club they should be shipped out. Sold for whatever we can get for them.

Get players in who want to do it and have the ability to do it. All game every game. Not just when they feel like it.

Inconsistent performances come down to mentality in most cases. Just take a look at Ozil. He is more than capable of doing what most others can't do but he needs a manager to keep on pushing him.

We'll agree to disagree on that because you're still talking about buying and missing a huge part of what coaching is about. Man Utd is a bad example. They were piss poor under Mourinho but suddenly looked like a different team when he was sacked. Now that Old has a permanent contract it looks like the players have become complacent again. It's still on the coach to motivate the players and not lose them.

Take another example in Chelsea. One season they were Champions, next season they looked like they were in a relegation battle under Mourinho. Practically the exact same team. Jose gets sacked, Conte comes in and they're Champions again. Inconsistent form from one season to the next but you can't say the players aren't good enough because they have proven they can win titles. Regardless of how poor of an attitude some players have you need strong leadership to get the best out of them and not get walked all over or to go to far and spark a mutiny.

Last point, can you explain what the heck happened in Emery's last season with Sevilla? People keep on skipping this question but it's important because it shows a reoccurring pattern even with a team Emery has had time to build. This poor away record isn't exclusive to Arsenal.

Take a look.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Sevilla_FC_season

Another issue that seems to have been completely forgotten. Sacked after 5 months in front of his players in the dressing room at Spartak Moscow after getting pumped in a derby.

He lost the respect of his players and they revolted.

https://www.tribalfootball.com/articles ... #popup-sso

[EliteKiller]

Phil... explain to me how we managed to pull off good performances at all this season? Spurs, Man Utd, Chelsea and other performances where we looked convincing? If they weren't good enough at and it had nothing at all to do with motivation and preparation from the manager, we wouldn't win these sort of games at all.

You're just clutching at straws, sure we had results against Spurs, Utd, Chelsea but so did Burnley, Brighton and B'mouth so what? ... over a season the table doesn't lie, the consistent best are at the top, the consistent worst are at the bottom, and the inconsistent others are in the middle ...

Under your definition every manager bar Pep and Klopp are failures because if they had got the very best from their squads every week then they should be top four ... and that's just fantasy thinking, it's far more likely the top sides dropped points because they had a bad day, than to say a couple of decent results makes you a better side ... as I said come May the table doesn't lie.

If Emery does better than last year (and in my book he already has) then he's moving us forward, small steps but at least it reverses the last three years of going backwards ... next season, and if he sees out his contract the one after that, will be his true test ...

[Power n Glory]

Phil... explain to me how we managed to pull off good performances at all this season? Spurs, Man Utd, Chelsea and other performances where we looked convincing? If they weren't good enough at and it had nothing at all to do with motivation and preparation from the manager, we wouldn't win these sort of games at all.

You're just clutching at straws, sure we had results against Spurs, Utd, Chelsea but so did Burnley, Brighton and B'mouth so what? ... over a season the table doesn't lie, the consistent best are at the top, the consistent worst are at the bottom, and the inconsistent others are in the middle ...

Under your definition every manager bar Pep and Klopp are failures because if they had got the very best from their squads every week then they should be top four ... and that's just fantasy thinking, it's far more likely the top sides dropped points because they had a bad day, than to say a couple of decent results makes you a better side ... as I said come May the table doesn't lie.

If Emery does better than last year (and in my book he already has) then he's moving us forward, small steps but at least it reverses the last three years of going backwards ... next season, and if he sees out his contract the one after that, will be his true test ...

It's funny how all of sudden it's like I'm speaking a different language. You know exactly what I mean when I say we're capable of more and how the manager plays a role in that. You've expressed it recently when you've been disappointed with a result but more so you will gloat when the manager gets the right result and give him full credit. Just look at your own below posts.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31932&p=1703089#p1703089

Been defending Emery but yesterday was a shocker ... he wasn't helped by players getting sent off, players putting in minimum effort, and frankly players not giving a feck ... but even with that said his tactics and substitutions were just weird.

It looked like we'd started to develop a spine, but it was back to wet lettuce yesterday, no heart, no passion, no leadership ... it was a Wonger 2.0 performance, just what is wrong with the mentality at our club?

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31932&p=1702464#p1702464

Stayed off the site for a few days, come back and read through a few posts some of them just mind-blowing .... after watching perhaps our best disciplined defensive performance in many years do any of the anti-Don posters still want to claim that he's not having an impact? still don't believe he's getting Wonger players to perform as a far more disciplined team? actually coaching a team to do exactly what he wants not just 'do their own thing' ?

Spuds with 60% possession hardly got a look in, our back line was ruler straight all match, the man to man marking excellent, for once the defence did it's job superbly without the customary brain-farts, and it was the 100m worth of forwards let us down.

If you can get past the result, the performance against a top four side away from home, this for us was different class.

I've always maintained that Unai is capable of getting more out of this team. I'm not talking about a title winning squad but one that doesn't go three goals down to Wolves, lose at home to Palace along with the other really poor results. Our home and away record should be enough evidence that it's mental preparation thing and not personnel. Just look at the difference between our home and away form in the UEFA Cup. We lose 1-0 to Bate away from home and 3-1 away from home to Rennes. But win both ties in our home games to go through to the next round. No way is it a case of the players not being good enough to beat those teams. It's mentality issue and something that falls under the managers remit. As said in my above posts when looking at Chelsea and Utd, there are mangers out there that can transform the cultural mentality of a club and that was a major reason why most of us wanted Wenger gone because he allowed the culture of failure to be seep in. If you reference Wonger 2.0 in one your posts, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

[EliteKiller]

I reckon there's a balance in there somewhere ....

Three year's results tell us we clearly do not have a squad capable of competing for the Title or the CL, top six and EL is right now where we are .... however we do have a squad that should not be losing at home to teams below us, or be 3-0 down to anyone away from home after less than 45 minutes.

Can't deny my posts are a bit schizophrenic, on the one hand I am trying desperately to find any signs of improvement that we have made under Emery, on the other hand even without those signs I still want to give him as long a chance as possible because I honestly believe the squad he inherited was our worst in ten years. Should be doing better, but not all his fault .......

Is Emery at the very top level? Well not so far, but he's way better than Ole (what were Utd thinking?) do we want to go down the ex-player route? ... So do we need another change when let's face reality whoever we can convince to come will most likely be no better and will obviously need to start the whole getting to know you process all over again? In my opinion that would be a huge mistake ... another 12/24 months with Emery and let's see where we are ... Of course if the manager gets no financial support from the board then it won't make any difference who's in charge.

Said it before you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, and at the moment we're pretty short on silk ....

[ag6789]

Yes, we can wait and watch for next 24 months , only thing, w/o CL football, we will be dart poor, and be unable to buy any decent player on the market, not that any available top players are raring to join Arsenal led by Great Unai, right now.
I believe, Kroos, Bale, Modric , etc, might be up for sale, and if we had a Wenger, we could snatch one of them, but w/Unai around, I've serious doubt.
Reputation goes a long way, as we saw with the Ozil& Sanchez deals.

[Power n Glory]

I reckon there's a balance in there somewhere ....

Three year's results tell us we clearly do not have a squad capable of competing for the Title or the CL, top six and EL is right now where we are .... however we do have a squad that should not be losing at home to teams below us, or be 3-0 down to anyone away from home after less than 45 minutes.

Can't deny my posts are a bit schizophrenic, on the one hand I am trying desperately to find any signs of improvement that we have made under Emery, on the other hand even without those signs I still want to give him as long a chance as possible because I honestly believe the squad he inherited was our worst in ten years. Should be doing better, but not all his fault .......

Is Emery at the very top level? Well not so far, but he's way better than Ole (what were Utd thinking?) do we want to go down the ex-player route? ... So do we need another change when let's face reality whoever we can convince to come will most likely be no better and will obviously need to start the whole getting to know you process all over again? In my opinion that would be a huge mistake ... another 12/24 months with Emery and let's see where we are ... Of course if the manager gets no financial support from the board then it won't make any difference who's in charge.

Said it before you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear, and at the moment we're pretty short on silk ....

That's what I've been saying. We should expect better from this group of a players. The players need to hang their heads in shame and the same goes for the manager. A one off lose here and there is acceptable but this has been a trend where we can't be trusted to even perform well away from home. That's a mentality issue. I remember way back under Wenger where we had this sort of mental block in Europe where we just couldn't perform like we did in the league whenever we played CL football. There is no way you can say those players we had weren't good enough. Sports psychology. I can't explain it but it's not uncommon to see teams choke under certain conditions. It's a worry for me that this is happening already for us for away games.

We stick with Emery throughout his contract unless by some miracle someone like Conte, Simeone, Allegri or whoever is supposed to be the next big manager declares his interest in coaching Arsenal. If we see no improvement next season, they should start putting out the feelers for a new manager. But for now, Emery has to find some sort of solution. It's no coincidence that he's coached previous sides with poor away records along with a very sketchy CL record, We shouldn't really ignore that and he should be judged based on what he's doing now, For example, how do people feel about the constant rotation of the squad and formation? We brought in Saurez and he's not starting games. If we spend big next season and he's still rotating players and formations, will that change your view on his management style and future at Arsenal?

[Ach]

Simeone lol

No thanks to the Argentinian Allardyce

[Angelito]

Simeone lol

No thanks to the Argentinian Allardyce

Remind me when Allardyce wins La Liga, EL twice, Copa del Rey, and reaches 2 UCL Finals.

Wait a minute!

Unai's legacy is the 3x EL. Simeone already has 2 and in between those two he's won La Liga and reached 2 UCL finals—all of this without managing an oil giant!

Did I mention that he won La Liga with a club not called Barcelona or Real Madrid?

[ThatAndrew]

Phil... explain to me how we managed to pull off good performances at all this season? Spurs, Man Utd, Chelsea and other performances where we looked convincing? If they weren't good enough at and it had nothing at all to do with motivation and preparation from the manager, we wouldn't win these sort of games at all.

someone mentioned that Wenger would be competing with Liverpool and City with this team and he's 100% right.

Last year's team has been strengthened significantly .
Emery got the support Wenger didnt get this last few years and is still failing.

[Power n Glory]

Phil... explain to me how we managed to pull off good performances at all this season? Spurs, Man Utd, Chelsea and other performances where we looked convincing? If they weren't good enough at and it had nothing at all to do with motivation and preparation from the manager, we wouldn't win these sort of games at all.

someone mentioned that Wenger would be competing with Liverpool and City with this team and he's 100% right.

Last year's team has been strengthened significantly .
Emery got the support Wenger didnt get this last few years and is still failing.

I really don't know about that. Believe it or not, after selling Sanchez, Walcott, Ox and Giroud, I believe Wenger would have bought more attacking players. Also, I despite finishing outside of the top 4 two years in a row, I highly doubt we'd have seen back to back losses against Palace and Wolves in the league at this stage. If Watford hadn't have had a man sent off, lord knows where we'd be considering we just lost to Everton. Leicester City up next away from home so we could be looking at 3 losses on the bounce and we still have one more away game to play.