WENGER OUT

Re: WENGER OUT

Postby Angelito » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:27 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Arsene Nose wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Said it before but it's worth repeating ....

Wonger inherited a club with the mindset 'they will not score' ... our mantra was '1-0 to The Arsenal' ... players would metaphorically 'die' to wear the shirt .... we were undisputed top dog in London

into that mindset came Lauren - Campbell - Toure - Cole and the Invincibles were created ....

BUT

the Invincibles failed to kick on, the tinkering began and by 2008 we were into the era of tippy-tappy ....

the Tippy Tappy era ended with no real success and we started the long slow decent to mid-table ....

Wonger will leave the club with the mindset 'meh' ... our mantra is 'win or bust' ... players now worry about their 'social media image' whilst doing pretty much what they want on the pitch .... we are no longer top dog in London

Sure in 25 years the game's changed, but you don't get this shite at Dippers, Spuds, City ..... a football club needs an identity what's ours?

That's Wonger's failure right there ... rode his luck but ultimately wasn't capable in the modern game ... nice guys get fecked' the trouble is he's fecked us right along with him, and we didn't get 8m a year for the privilege ..... our club The Arsenal lost it's way, lost it's identity, and lost it's connection to us the fans, it will take years to regain our superiority in London, if that's even possible, so if you credit Wonger for the good times, then you have to blame Wonger for the state we are now in .... he's a decade past his sell-by date, it's killing us .....

Rolling on the floor laughing at your take on history. :rofll:

Not sure what you find funny about the post, it looks pretty spot on to me


It's not.

Wenger of today =/= Wenger of until 2006.

No English club had gone an entire season unbeaten for over a century before Wenger. Without the support of Sky money or FA pandering to ManU, whose premier commander-in-chief has a whopping 2 CLs in 26+ years as manager of the second or arguably the biggest club in world, Arsenal managed to rock the foundation of English football. "Poor" Wenger has only 1 CL final to show for. Meanwhile, GOAT manager of GOAT club with GOAT resources has 2 CLs in 26 appearances. Meh.

If we hadn't moved to the Emirates and utilized our resources in strengthening, we would have won the UCL - whether in 2006, 2007, or 2008.

It's convenient to apply revisionism when it comes to Wenger. Nothing changes the fact that the man was way ahead of the game in his initial years at Arsenal. It doesn't help that Arsenal administration since David Dein left has been clueless. It's become "cool" to shit on Wenger's accomplishments at Arsenal. That is as farther from the truth as anything.

There is only ONE manager in PL history who has won the PL without buying it and it's one Arsene Wenger. Well, hello Gooners, we went an entire season unbeaten!

- Arsenal would have been where Everton are today without Wenger, yes.
- Arsenal should have sacked Wenger during the summer of 2011, yes.

Wenger was the best manager in the world at one point. It's the fault of whoever runs our club that they let him overstay his welcome.

The whole revising of history to suit today's sensibility is in poor taste.
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby UFGN » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:40 pm

Angelito he's more or less right though

I don't see any revisionism there, or if there is it doesn't alter the facts regarding where we are now and how we've deteriorated, both on the pitch and psychologically.

Claudio Ranieri btw
Corinthians 15:57; But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus

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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:49 pm

Angelito



If we hadn't moved to the Emirates and utilized our resources in strengthening, we would have won the UCL whether in 2006, 2007, or 2008


Just No. Wenger is the most under achieving manager in European football history.

Our greatest teams never got past the QFs.


There is only ONE manager in PL history who has won the PL without buying it and it's one Arsene Wenger.


Ranieri and Leicester say hi.

Wenger was certainly brilliant but he never even managed to win back-to-back titles. Our squads in the early to mid 00s were far more talented than the United squads of that era.

We bottled the title in '03 and the Invincibles bottled the CL at home to a pre-Mourinho Chelsea, just after bottling the FA Cup to United.

Going unbeaten saved Wenger's legacy, because if '04 was just a standard title win where we lost a few games he would be viewed a lot differently.

All in all he has underachieved in the PL.
Last edited by Va-Va-Voom on Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby Ach » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:59 pm

Wenger was good, he was damn good

Now hes shit, hes damn shit

He should have left in 2004 after winning the title cos it was never going to get better than that but understandable he stayed and we won the cup and reached the CL after that but the move to emirates should have been a new era

Wenger stayed and depended on this FFP malarkey to enable us to get back to the top and it failed. As long as you have chequebook managers like Pep and whoever PSGs manager is and then FFP will fail.

We were told we would compete with the best clubs for the best players but they failed to notice that football moves on. When we were told we would compete, the prices paid for top players were 40m-50m

We are doing that now but the game has moved on and the best players are going for twice as much and thus we stay behind and getting further behind

Through out all this players have changed, owners have changed, chairman has changed, director of football has changed but one thing hasn't and that's what has kept us down.

This overrating of Wenger during his successful years doesn't need to be. We were never going to win the CL with him in charge
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:17 am

Angelito wrote: If we hadn't moved to the Emirates and utilized our resources in strengthening, we would have won the UCL - whether in 2006, 2007, or 2008 - pure guesswork, the fact we haven't won it any season under Wonger says you're probably wrong

It's convenient to apply revisionism when it comes to Wenger. Nothing changes the fact that the man was way ahead of the game in his initial years at Arsenal. It doesn't help that Arsenal administration since David Dein left has been clueless. It's become "cool" to shit on Wenger's accomplishments at Arsenal. That is as farther from the truth as anything. - again that's just your opinion, if he was 'way ahead of the game' why so few major trophies? compare Arsenal to Barca when they were 'way ahead of the game' ... they won everything, we didn't

There is only ONE manager in PL history who has won the PL without buying it and it's one Arsene Wenger. Well, hello Gooners, we went an entire season unbeaten! revisionism at it's best, remember Leicester?

Fixed this - Arsenal are close to where Everton are today with Wenger, yes.

- Arsenal should have sacked Wenger during the summer of 2011, yes. if not 2009

Wenger was the best manager in the world at one point. A very brief moment in time, AF was better during there entire careers. all Wonger truly had was one Invincible season, was Ranieri 'the best manager in the world at one point'? .....


The whole revising of history to suit today's sensibility is in poor taste, so please stop doing it ...

Wonger he came, done well, lost his way, failed ..... harsh? but that's the short version of the facts, or do you still think it's revisionism?
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby Zanatos3 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:53 am

https://www.90min.com/posts/6034705-low-emirates-stadium-attendance-figures-could-see-arsene-wenger-leave-club-amid-boardroom-concern

The spark is finally turning into a FIRE!!!

with statistical ground FINALLY!!

HEADLINE - "Low Emirates Stadium Attendance Figures Could See Arsene Wenger Leave Club Amid Boardroom Concern "

CONTINUE TO RATTLE THE CAGES!!! :arsenal3:

the boards worried, starting to smell the smoke from the fire spreading to their bank accounts!
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby Phil71 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:52 am

Zanatos3 wrote:https://www.90min.com/posts/6034705-low-emirates-stadium-attendance-figures-could-see-arsene-wenger-leave-club-amid-boardroom-concern

The spark is finally turning into a FIRE!!!

with statistical ground FINALLY!!

HEADLINE - "Low Emirates Stadium Attendance Figures Could See Arsene Wenger Leave Club Amid Boardroom Concern "

CONTINUE TO RATTLE THE CAGES!!! :arsenal3:

the boards worried, starting to smell the smoke from the fire spreading to their bank accounts!


Not just the attendances either.

We lost about £40+m by skipping the CL this season.

I'm sure there are other, hidden losses too that are related to sponsorship deals. Don't qualify for the CL and it goes down by x. etc.
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby theHotHead » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:50 am

Angelito wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Not sure what you find funny about the post, it looks pretty spot on to me


It's not.

Wenger of today =/= Wenger of until 2006.

No English club had gone an entire season unbeaten for over a century before Wenger. Without the support of Sky money or FA pandering to ManU, whose premier commander-in-chief has a whopping 2 CLs in 26+ years as manager of the second or arguably the biggest club in world, Arsenal managed to rock the foundation of English football. "Poor" Wenger has only 1 CL final to show for. Meanwhile, GOAT manager of GOAT club with GOAT resources has 2 CLs in 26 appearances. Meh.

If we hadn't moved to the Emirates and utilized our resources in strengthening, we would have won the UCL - whether in 2006, 2007, or 2008.

It's convenient to apply revisionism when it comes to Wenger. Nothing changes the fact that the man was way ahead of the game in his initial years at Arsenal. It doesn't help that Arsenal administration since David Dein left has been clueless. It's become "cool" to shit on Wenger's accomplishments at Arsenal. That is as farther from the truth as anything.

There is only ONE manager in PL history who has won the PL without buying it and it's one Arsene Wenger. Well, hello Gooners, we went an entire season unbeaten!

- Arsenal would have been where Everton are today without Wenger, yes.
- Arsenal should have sacked Wenger during the summer of 2011, yes.

Wenger was the best manager in the world at one point. It's the fault of whoever runs our club that they let him overstay his welcome.

The whole revising of history to suit today's sensibility is in poor taste.

Not sure what you are talking about, there is absolutely no revisioning of history anywhere. Nobody has changed Wenger's achievements or diminished them.

Wonger inherited a club with the mindset 'they will not score' ... our mantra was '1-0 to The Arsenal' ... players would metaphorically 'die' to wear the shirt .... we were undisputed top dog in London
Fact and correct. WE WERE the best team in London under George Graham.

the Invincibles failed to kick on, the tinkering began and by 2008 we were into the era of tippy-tappy ....
Fact and correct. Wenger created the Invincibles that were a marvel domestically but failed to live up to their potential in Europe.

the Tippy Tappy era ended with no real success and we started the long slow decent to mid-table ...
Fact and correct. The tippy tappy era followed the Invincibles era and led to nothing but the 4th place trophy.

That's Wonger's failure right there ... rode his luck but ultimately wasn't capable in the modern game ... nice guys get fecked' the trouble is he's fecked us right along with him, and we didn't get 8m a year for the privilege ..... our club The Arsenal lost it's way, lost it's identity, and lost it's connection to us the fans, it will take years to regain our superiority in London, if that's even possible, so if you credit Wonger for the good times, then you have to blame Wonger for the state we are now in .... he's a decade past his sell-by date, it's killing us .....
Fact and correct. The modern game being referred to is the game full of young inspiring managers that are bringing a new brand of football to our shores. Wenger in the past 8 years has shown he cannot compete with the new game, his outdated methods are holding us back. Yes we can win cups but we don't have the sustained quality to last an entire season. We have lost our way, we have lost our identity, we have lost the things that made Arsenal great under Wenger. The fans are not happy, we are the 3rd best team in London and heading backwards fast.
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby longBalls » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:49 pm

Fact and correct. The modern game being referred to is the game full of young inspiring managers that are bringing a new brand of football to our shores. Wenger in the past 8 years has shown he cannot compete with the new game, his outdated methods are holding us back. Yes we can win cups but we don't have the sustained quality to last an entire season. We have lost our way, we have lost our identity, we have lost the things that made Arsenal great under Wenger. The fans are not happy, we are the 3rd best team in London and heading backwards fast.


You shoulda write letter containin your point of view to AFC .
Heres the email : feedback@arsenal.co.uk
Friend of mine is working at a senior club in the communication department,.
Saying they are laughing their asses of seeing similiar posts like yours.
COYG
Someday mate, I don't know when
were gonna get to that first place
where we really want to go and well walk at highbury in the sun ,

but till then gooners like us , maybe we were born to run
come on now maybe we were born to run

gooners like us,
maybe we were born to run
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby theHotHead » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:36 pm

Every fan of our rivals are laughing their arses off at our plight. Nothing new there. Until Wenger leaves it will continue.

The only saving grace is potentially winning a European trophy, otherwise, what a car crash of a season this has been !
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby Angelito » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:44 pm

As much as it's futile to argue with the WKB lot, it's more so futile to argue with WOBs.

No room for objective analysis. I don't even know where to start, which is why I can't be bothered.

One thing tho, CL/Europe and Arsenal has always been a tragical situation. I hope that changes this season. And please don't bring up the CWC. Jeez, 1 European Trophy in 132 years.

I know it's 2 European Trophies in 132 years for Starman. ;)

I also like how we conveniently ignore SAF's 2 CLs in 26 seasons - managing the biggest club in the world.

How many CLs had Arsenal won before Wenger?

How many UEFA Cups did Arsenal win before Wenger?

How many English clubs have gone unbeaten before Wenger?

How many English clubs have won 2 doubles before Wenger? One, ManU - before someone realizes that they've found a loophole.

7 FA Cups under Wenger, as opposed to 6 FA Cups before Wenger. Who's won more FA Cups?

Whatever.

Wenger should leave but the same lot who praise SAF are the ones who obviously ignore his CL record - managing the biggest club in the world. Pep hasn't won the CL for 7 years and he's managed Barca, Bayern, and City in that period. Jose hasn't won the CL in 8 years and he's managed Real, Chelsea, and United in that timeframe. Wenger is managing Arsenal - a club that isn't near ManU, Real, or Barca as far as scale goes.

Meh.

There is a difference: Wenger has long stayed past his welcome. That doesn't undermine his accomplishments at Arsenal.

Sometimes, I almost wish the board would hire Eddie Howe or Brendan Rodgers so that Gooners could understand what entitlement or legacy means. Pray to God that this lousy board hires Allegri, Simeone, Tuchel, Jardim, or Sarri. If not, we're f***ked.
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:48 pm

How many times did we threaten to win the CL though?

Like I said our greatest teams never got past the QFs.

SAF at least made several deep runs in the comp and lost two finals to Pep's great Barca side.

But yes, his CL record is weak, but Wenger's is worse.

Worst European manager in history.
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby Angelito » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:58 pm

Va-Va-Voom wrote:How many times did we threaten to win the CL though?

Like I said our greatest teams never got past the QFs.

SAF at least made several deep runs in the comp and lost two finals to Pep's great Barca side.

But yes, his CL record is weak, but Wenger's is worse.

Worst European manager in history.


How many times have Arsenal reached the CL Final before Wenger?

How many times have Arsenal reached the UEFA Cup Final before Wenger?

How many times have we threatened to win the CL/European Cup in 132 years?

People act like we've won countless European Trophies before Wenger and it's only since he arrived that we've become limp in European competitions.

Name another manager who's gone Invincible or won as many FA Cups. Name another Arsenal manager who's reached the UEFA Cup and CL Finals?

We were 13 mins away from winning the CL... If we had ManU's luck in 1999, the narrative would be completely different.

By your logic, Roberto di Matteo must be one of the greatest managers in European history.
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:10 pm

For how great Wenger was in his early years and with how talented our squads of that era were, Wenger's record in the CL is a tragedy.

I'm also taking into account many times he has qualified for the competition and still has only made two deeps runs, then factor in all the times we have been embarrassed.

This is how I'm arriving at my conclusion of him being the worst ever European manager.

Wenger has been here for over 20 years and we've made 2 European finals. Says it all.

Also not sure why you're asking how many CL and EC finals we made before Wenger arrived. This is about Wenger's poor record in Europe, not the club.

By my logic Di Matteo must be one of the great European managers?

No, by my logic if you were at one point the best manager in the world and had the most talented squads in Europe yet never made it past the QFs and have only made the SFs twice in over 20 years then you are a terrible European manager.

That is my logic.
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Re: WENGER OUT

Postby Losmeister » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:24 pm

hmmm... the 2 above posts
lead me to this...


AFC are shitty in European comps and always have been.. :angry:


sorry if thats reductive, but... i rarely read in here cos it's often toxic.

change needs to be made, we all know this.
and Wenger has done some very very nice things as well.

they are not mutually exclusive.
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