Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby Futuo » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:04 am

The rise of the likes of Red Bull came out of rule changes and them having Adrian Newey to exploit the rules best possible a la Colin Chapman in the 60s and 70s.

With the new set of rules another clued up designer may be able to beat the big teams. But the big money teams soon catch up as they of course have the money to chuck at it. Arsenal or Ajax for example can't go into a wind tunnel and develop their own Messi ;)

Big teams will of course get preferential treatment same as in football, just look at Man U's usual fixture list to see that or the the fact this meeting has been arranged to discuss Hamilton after he caused a Ferrari a problem.
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Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby VCC » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:08 am

Agree with the fixture list,but is Arsenal youth scheme not hailed as that wind tunnel you speek of,the best driver in the world will not win a championship with out the team and money to go into that team would you agree.
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Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby Futuo » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:14 am

Yes and no, of course he needs a top car and a top team, but as I said Red Bull will be spending less than a few and Vettel will be on less money than say Alonso. the fact Buton has won some races proves that it is not just the car that wins as the Red Bull is better than the McLaren.

Yes I guess the youth scheme is striving to make the next Messi, Beckham, Muller etc. And Wenger has certainly brought a lot more science to this than a lot of other managers used to.
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Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby VCC » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:26 am

Thanks for the chat Futuo see i think That Aw has actually made the youth scheme worse he is looking for one type of player ball playing footballers,i think it takes more than this in a team,i think the natural ability of our players is coached out of them that is my opinion,other managers had as much success or actually better than AW dont forget people lose site of the fact alot of these young players are brought buy the club now not develoed there,and motor sport is the same all over hate to think how many steward meetings and protest meetings i have sat through the bearacracy is right through the sport in all codes
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Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby Futuo » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:37 am

When the stakes are high people will try and use the rule book to their advantage, the karting dad is much the same as the punch ups at kids football matches so it starts early unfortunately. And any multi billion business is bound to attract bureaucracy but with UEFA FFP that could well be Arsenal's knight in shining armour.

I guess yes if a racing team just concentrated on having say the most powerful engine above all else then it would fail, would need all manner of things to be a winner. Gentle on tyres but get heat into them, reliability, good aerodynamics, power, traction etc etc same as if you just do passing and forget defence, finishing, stamina etc it won't work.
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Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby VCC » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:49 am

correct, horsepower equates to nothing unless it is reliable and transfered to the surface then you have to get the thing around the track the quickest it can possibly go,it has to be marketed, sponsored, serviced and maintained. continually developed all travel arrangements need to be met for the whole team and most of all you need a happy camp if the dressing room is not happy you have problems
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Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby Futuo » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:08 am

But surely Wenger must have tried Theo as an out and out striker, tried 442, tried Bendtner as a striker, getting the defence to defend etc in training he can't be that stubborn to just say it's my way or the highway if he was they would have all left ages ago.

It just doesn't add up.

Some F1 teams have tried going down an alternative route (6 wheelers, gas turbines, double wings, fan cars etc) but if it isn't working they soon switch to what the leaders are doing. There's being a maverick but then there's just being a fool, Wenger might be a lot of things but fool isn't one of them.

Although for years Ferrari just concentrated on their engines and it worked for them 9for a long time).
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Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby VCC » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:15 am

Futuo wrote:But surely Wenger must have tried Theo as an out and out striker, tried 442, tried Bendtner as a striker, getting the defence to defend etc in training he can't be that stubborn to just say it's my way or the highway if he was they would have all left ages ago.

It just doesn't add up.

Some F1 teams have tried going down an alternative route (6 wheelers, gas turbines, double wings, fan cars etc) but if it isn't working they soon switch to what the leaders are doing. There's being a maverick but then there's just being a fool, Wenger might be a lot of things but fool isn't one of them.

Although for years Ferrari just concentrated on their engines and it worked for them 9for a long time).

you just never know until it is tried,i raced at the top in my sport and we ran wets front and back as you do in motor sport looking for an edge we went to a drag slick on the front,we tried it i remember watching the thing on the bend almost running off the rim but it actually handeled and increasde our performance if you are not prepared to change or evolve in sport the sport will simply pass you by,and for the record my whole carreer i was never out of the top five and i are not AW
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Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby Futuo » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:36 am

Yes you try different stuff and I'm sure Arsenal do too, they seem to try more than other clubs, players out f position for starters, it must have worked in training first. You'd not try a forest tyre on a broken up tarmac stage in an actual event, you'd do it at testing to see how much slower per mile it was vs the greater resistance to punctures etc.
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Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby VCC » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:40 am

Futuo wrote:Yes you try different stuff and I'm sure Arsenal do too, they seem to try more than other clubs, players out f position for starters, it must have worked in training first. You'd not try a forest tyre on a broken up tarmac stage in an actual event, you'd do it at testing to see how much slower per mile it was vs the greater resistance to punctures etc.

of course you test but if you are saying these players have been trialed there and they are not up to it then the boss that brought them there did not do a good job,and to play people out of possition is exactly what it is OUT OF POSSITION that equates to no DEPTH or needing to change a tactic to play players off the bench IN POSSITION
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Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby VCC » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:46 am

To play a player out of possition in a side whare the tactics of the day are not working is like throwing a flat tire on in a pitstop
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Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby Futuo » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:50 am

I'm saying there has to be a reason they were played out of position same as some teams ran double difusers and others didn't. AW must have seen something in the players he switched. He'd not do it just to antagonise players and supporters. Same as tippy tappy rather than route 1 style.
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Re: Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby VCC » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:54 am

Futuo wrote:I'm saying there has to be a reason they were played out of position same as some teams ran double difusers and others didn't. AW must have seen something in the players he switched. He'd not do it just to antagonise players and supporters. Same as tippy tappy rather than route 1 style.

Bendtner on the wing come on mate he simply can not change tactics during or even befor a match to suit personell that is why i said earlier our natural ability is coached out of the team his tactics simply do not suit some of the players or possitions he plays them,he wants a club of clones
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Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby Tony_Adams » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:01 am

Futuo wrote:But surely Wenger must have tried Theo as an out and out striker, tried 442, tried Bendtner as a striker, getting the defence to defend etc in training he can't be that stubborn to just say it's my way or the highway if he was they would have all left ages ago.

It just doesn't add up.


If he wasn't that stubborn then Keown would still be our defensive coach.

AW kept saying bendtner was on the wing to help him develop, it finally got to the point where he'd developed and was still stuck out wide. I think RVP up front on his own is a similar issue, he's said himself he wants a deeper role.

Our current formation fails to get the best out of our best players, but AW seems too stuborn to change them. He is getting a lot of advice at the moment but seems to have the blinkers on. The same mistakes are being made over and over again both on and off the pitch!
Last edited by Tony_Adams on Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Formula One 2011 Season Chat thread

Postby Tony_Adams » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:02 am

Wenger needs sacking!
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