The general boxing thread

[Jedi]

You sound like a bitter Joshua fanboy.
Sorry your guy turned out to be a bum.

If you had any idea how wrong this is, you never would've said it.

Look through my post history in this thread, you will see i slated Joshua time and time again, and i celebrated with all my heart when he lost to Ruiz. I very much dislike Joshua and his personality. If anything I'm a Fury fan and i even think Wilder will knock out Fury in the rematch.

But I'm objective. And my objectivity doesn't allow me to pretend that Joshua doesn't have the better record. He does. It's just a fact. We can argue about whether Wilder would beat Joshua and there's a discussion there, but it's an UNDISPUTABLE FACT that Joshua has beaten more accomplished fighters so far and has the best record out of any active heavyweight. Anything else is delusion and being an emotional fan who can't look past his own biases.

Joshua has ducked THE LEAST and there is nothing you can do about it

Silly logic. You can only beat what's in front of you. Look at Ruiz.

Look at Ruiz? Unlike Ortiz, Ruiz stepped up and took his chance. Are you aware Ortiz was offered the same fight before Ruiz did but he declined it?

It's not my fault Ortiz didn't fight in title eliminators and didn't raise the level of opposition of his opponents? He chose to fight bums his whole career. He could've battled it out with the big guys and got several chances to be a mandatory, BUT HE DIDN'T.

By your logic, Fury should just cancel the Wilder rematch and fight Sefer Seferi 50 more times and statpad his record and retire as the greatest of all time, because, after all, you can only beat what's in front of you, even if it's handpicked journeyman.

[Power n Glory]

@Jedi - when it comes to boxing you should at least know there is a lot of politics and bs when it comes to setting up fights. It's the promoters and handlers then tend the mess up the negotiations. I highly doubt Ortiz himself is scared of Joshua when he he's willing to step into the ring with an undefeated fighter twice with nearly an 100% KO record.

You're acting really silly and sensitive about one comment over Ortiz getting another shot. Good luck to Antjony Joshua in his next title fight but I'm also hoping Ortiz gets another shot because he seems like a tough opponent that could cause a lot of problems for most fighters. That doesn't mean I want the downfall of Anthony Joshua. I just want to see better match ups in the division and less politics.

[Jedi]

@Jedi - when it comes to boxing you should at least know there is a lot of politics and bs when it comes to setting up fights. It's the promoters and handlers then tend the mess up the negotiations. I highly doubt Ortiz himself is scared of Joshua when he he's willing to step into the ring with an undefeated fighter twice with nearly an 100% KO record.

Politics aside, the cream rises to the top. Fury was promoted by Mick Hennessy and still somehow managed to land a fight with Klitschko. How? By beating fighters in eliminators and becoming a mandatory challenger.

You can't be ducked if you're someone's mandatory.

[jayramfootball]

@Jedi - when it comes to boxing you should at least know there is a lot of politics and bs when it comes to setting up fights. It's the promoters and handlers then tend the mess up the negotiations. I highly doubt Ortiz himself is scared of Joshua when he he's willing to step into the ring with an undefeated fighter twice with nearly an 100% KO record.

Politics aside, the cream rises to the top. Fury was promoted by Mick Hennessy and still somehow managed to land a fight with Klitschko. How? By beating fighters in eliminators and becoming a mandatory challenger.

You can't be ducked if you're someone's mandatory.

You keep mentioning Klitschko. He was 39 when Fury fought him and 41 when he fought Joshua. You call Ortiz a geriatric, but not Klitchsko?
Klitchsko ruled the division during a period of time in heavyweight boxing that was perhaps the worst for top talent in the division ever. Even at 41 he almost beat Joshua. Looking at Klitchsko's record suggests he fought the majority of his career against dross.

[Power n Glory]

@Jedi - when it comes to boxing you should at least know there is a lot of politics and bs when it comes to setting up fights. It's the promoters and handlers then tend the mess up the negotiations. I highly doubt Ortiz himself is scared of Joshua when he he's willing to step into the ring with an undefeated fighter twice with nearly an 100% KO record.

Politics aside, the cream rises to the top. Fury was promoted by Mick Hennessy and still somehow managed to land a fight with Klitschko. How? By beating fighters in eliminators and becoming a mandatory challenger.

You can't be ducked if you're someone's mandatory.

Let's not be completely naive. If we we're paying close attention to the rankings for the WBC, WBA and IBF, rematch clauses in contracts and the promoters trying to draw box office numbers, you can see how fighters can miss out on the limelight fights. You've contradicted yourself there.

[Jedi]

@Jedi - when it comes to boxing you should at least know there is a lot of politics and bs when it comes to setting up fights. It's the promoters and handlers then tend the mess up the negotiations. I highly doubt Ortiz himself is scared of Joshua when he he's willing to step into the ring with an undefeated fighter twice with nearly an 100% KO record.

Politics aside, the cream rises to the top. Fury was promoted by Mick Hennessy and still somehow managed to land a fight with Klitschko. How? By beating fighters in eliminators and becoming a mandatory challenger.

You can't be ducked if you're someone's mandatory.

You keep mentioning Klitschko. He was 39 when Fury fought him and 41 when he fought Joshua. You call Ortiz a geriatric, but not Klitchsko?
Klitchsko ruled the division during a period of time in heavyweight boxing that was perhaps the worst for top talent in the division ever. Even at 41 he almost beat Joshua. Looking at Klitchsko's record suggests he fought the majority of his career against dross.

Do you honestly think Klitschko's level of opposition is comparable to that of Wilder's and Ortiz's? Please answer this so i know to ignore everything you say on this topic from now on.

[jayramfootball]

@Jedi - when it comes to boxing you should at least know there is a lot of politics and bs when it comes to setting up fights. It's the promoters and handlers then tend the mess up the negotiations. I highly doubt Ortiz himself is scared of Joshua when he he's willing to step into the ring with an undefeated fighter twice with nearly an 100% KO record.

Politics aside, the cream rises to the top. Fury was promoted by Mick Hennessy and still somehow managed to land a fight with Klitschko. How? By beating fighters in eliminators and becoming a mandatory challenger.

You can't be ducked if you're someone's mandatory.

You keep mentioning Klitschko. He was 39 when Fury fought him and 41 when he fought Joshua. You call Ortiz a geriatric, but not Klitchsko?
Klitchsko ruled the division during a period of time in heavyweight boxing that was perhaps the worst for top talent in the division ever. Even at 41 he almost beat Joshua. Looking at Klitchsko's record suggests he fought the majority of his career against dross.

Do you honestly think Klitschko's level of opposition is comparable to that of Wilder's and Ortiz's? Please answer this so i know to ignore everything you say on this topic from now on.

It's fine, fella. I am already disregarding your input, so fair is fair.
To give you a chance, though, maybe you'd like to tell us the great fighters Klitchko fought up to this 43rd fight?
Would be great to know...perhaps it was great Ross Puritty (the journeyman who lost 20 times!) or superstar Corrie Sanders, both of whom Klitchsko had actually lost to by that point?

[Power n Glory]

@Jedi - when it comes to boxing you should at least know there is a lot of politics and bs when it comes to setting up fights. It's the promoters and handlers then tend the mess up the negotiations. I highly doubt Ortiz himself is scared of Joshua when he he's willing to step into the ring with an undefeated fighter twice with nearly an 100% KO record.

Politics aside, the cream rises to the top. Fury was promoted by Mick Hennessy and still somehow managed to land a fight with Klitschko. How? By beating fighters in eliminators and becoming a mandatory challenger.

You can't be ducked if you're someone's mandatory.

You keep mentioning Klitschko. He was 39 when Fury fought him and 41 when he fought Joshua. You call Ortiz a geriatric, but not Klitchsko?
Klitchsko ruled the division during a period of time in heavyweight boxing that was perhaps the worst for top talent in the division ever. Even at 41 he almost beat Joshua. Looking at Klitchsko's record suggests he fought the majority of his career against dross.

Do you honestly think Klitschko's level of opposition is comparable to that of Wilder's and Ortiz's? Please answer this so i know to ignore everything you say on this topic from now on.

You can't be serious.

[Power n Glory]

This is the best the heavyweight division has been in years. There are actual fights to be made that are interesting and not the manufactured hype i've seen where there aren't any credible opponents for a champion to face.

[Jedi]

@Jedi - when it comes to boxing you should at least know there is a lot of politics and bs when it comes to setting up fights. It's the promoters and handlers then tend the mess up the negotiations. I highly doubt Ortiz himself is scared of Joshua when he he's willing to step into the ring with an undefeated fighter twice with nearly an 100% KO record.

Politics aside, the cream rises to the top. Fury was promoted by Mick Hennessy and still somehow managed to land a fight with Klitschko. How? By beating fighters in eliminators and becoming a mandatory challenger.

You can't be ducked if you're someone's mandatory.

You keep mentioning Klitschko. He was 39 when Fury fought him and 41 when he fought Joshua. You call Ortiz a geriatric, but not Klitchsko?
Klitchsko ruled the division during a period of time in heavyweight boxing that was perhaps the worst for top talent in the division ever. Even at 41 he almost beat Joshua. Looking at Klitchsko's record suggests he fought the majority of his career against dross.

Do you honestly think Klitschko's level of opposition is comparable to that of Wilder's and Ortiz's? Please answer this so i know to ignore everything you say on this topic from now on.

You can't be serious.

Klitschko was in 29 title fights and he beat 12 world champions. Ortiz's biggest win is Bryant Jennings, the guy who went into that fight coming off a loss to none other than... Klitschko.

What can you possibly find objectionable here? If you're gonna reply, leave out the rolleyes emojis and reply with some substance and counter arguments, and don't pivot to another issue like the other guy does.

I'm giving you both all the time in the world, lay out all the facts and destroy me. Show me what impressive wins Wilder and Ortiz have on their records.

[jayramfootball]

@Jedi - when it comes to boxing you should at least know there is a lot of politics and bs when it comes to setting up fights. It's the promoters and handlers then tend the mess up the negotiations. I highly doubt Ortiz himself is scared of Joshua when he he's willing to step into the ring with an undefeated fighter twice with nearly an 100% KO record.

Politics aside, the cream rises to the top. Fury was promoted by Mick Hennessy and still somehow managed to land a fight with Klitschko. How? By beating fighters in eliminators and becoming a mandatory challenger.

You can't be ducked if you're someone's mandatory.

You keep mentioning Klitschko. He was 39 when Fury fought him and 41 when he fought Joshua. You call Ortiz a geriatric, but not Klitchsko?
Klitchsko ruled the division during a period of time in heavyweight boxing that was perhaps the worst for top talent in the division ever. Even at 41 he almost beat Joshua. Looking at Klitchsko's record suggests he fought the majority of his career against dross.

Do you honestly think Klitschko's level of opposition is comparable to that of Wilder's and Ortiz's? Please answer this so i know to ignore everything you say on this topic from now on.

You can't be serious.

Klitschko was in 29 title fights and he beat 12 world champions. Ortiz's biggest win is Bryant Jennings, the guy who went into that fight coming off a loss to none other than... Klitschko.

What can you possibly find objectionable here? If you're gonna reply, leave out the rolleyes emojis and reply with some substance and counter arguments, and don't pivot to another issue like the other guy does.

I'm giving you both all the time in the world, lay out all the facts and destroy me. Show me what impressive wins Wilder and Ortiz have on their records.

Klitchsko first 43 fights - same number as Wilder has fought now: He actually LOST to the fighters in red.

43  Fabio Eduardo Moli
42  Corrie Sanders
41  Jameel McCline
40  Ray Mercer
39  Francois Botha
38  Charles Shufford
37  Derrick Jefferson
36  Chris Byrd
35  Monte Barrett
34  David Bostice
33  Paea Wolfgramm
32  Lajos Eros
31  Phil Jackson
30  Axel Schulz
29  Joseph Chingangu
28  Tony LaRosa
27  Everett Martin
26  Zoran Vujicic
25  Ross Puritty
24  Donnell Wingfield
23  Eli Dixon
22  Steve Pannell
21  Carlos Monroe
20  Najee Shaheed
19  Cody Koch
18  Everett Martin
17  Marcus McIntyre
16  Derrick Lampkins
15  Ladislav Husarik
14  Jerry Halstead
13  Marcos González
12  James Pritchard
11  Biko Botowamungu
10  Gilberto Williamson
9  Salvador Maciel
8  Paul Ashley
7  Mark Wills
6  Mark Young
5  Carlos Monroe
4  Troy Weida
3  Bill Corrigan
2  Exum Speight
1  Fabian Meza

Can you point out the great fighters there please.
Stop chatting nonsense.
Not Klitschko's fault, but he fought in an era where heavyweight boxing was utterly crap.

Klitschko was never a great fighter, just a good one, and by the time he fought Joshua he was a has been.
He nearly beat Joushua because AJ has a glass jaw and turns zombie when hit....a poor mans Frank Bruno.

[Power n Glory]

@Jedi - when it comes to boxing you should at least know there is a lot of politics and bs when it comes to setting up fights. It's the promoters and handlers then tend the mess up the negotiations. I highly doubt Ortiz himself is scared of Joshua when he he's willing to step into the ring with an undefeated fighter twice with nearly an 100% KO record.

Politics aside, the cream rises to the top. Fury was promoted by Mick Hennessy and still somehow managed to land a fight with Klitschko. How? By beating fighters in eliminators and becoming a mandatory challenger.

You can't be ducked if you're someone's mandatory.

You keep mentioning Klitschko. He was 39 when Fury fought him and 41 when he fought Joshua. You call Ortiz a geriatric, but not Klitchsko?
Klitchsko ruled the division during a period of time in heavyweight boxing that was perhaps the worst for top talent in the division ever. Even at 41 he almost beat Joshua. Looking at Klitchsko's record suggests he fought the majority of his career against dross.

Do you honestly think Klitschko's level of opposition is comparable to that of Wilder's and Ortiz's? Please answer this so i know to ignore everything you say on this topic from now on.

You can't be serious.

Klitschko was in 29 title fights and he beat 12 world champions. Ortiz's biggest win is Bryant Jennings, the guy who went into that fight coming off a loss to none other than... Klitschko.

What can you possibly find objectionable here? If you're gonna reply, leave out the rolleyes emojis and reply with some substance and counter arguments, and don't pivot to another issue like the other guy does.

I'm giving you both all the time in the world, lay out all the facts and destroy me. Show me what impressive wins Wilder and Ortiz have on their records.

Did you watch the Ortiz v Jennings fight? Did you watch Klitschko v Jennings?

[Jedi]

Did you watch the Ortiz v Jennings fight? Did you watch Klitschko v Jennings?

So no response then? Alright.

Klitchsko first 43 fights - same number as Wilder has fought now: He actually LOST to the fighters in red.

43  Fabio Eduardo Moli
42  Corrie Sanders
41  Jameel McCline
40  Ray Mercer
39  Francois Botha
38  Charles Shufford
37  Derrick Jefferson
36  Chris Byrd
35  Monte Barrett
34  David Bostice
33  Paea Wolfgramm
32  Lajos Eros
31  Phil Jackson
30  Axel Schulz
29  Joseph Chingangu
28  Tony LaRosa
27  Everett Martin
26  Zoran Vujicic
25  Ross Puritty
24  Donnell Wingfield
23  Eli Dixon
22  Steve Pannell
21  Carlos Monroe
20  Najee Shaheed
19  Cody Koch
18  Everett Martin
17  Marcus McIntyre
16  Derrick Lampkins
15  Ladislav Husarik
14  Jerry Halstead
13  Marcos González
12  James Pritchard
11  Biko Botowamungu
10  Gilberto Williamson
9  Salvador Maciel
8  Paul Ashley
7  Mark Wills
6  Mark Young
5  Carlos Monroe
4  Troy Weida
3  Bill Corrigan
2  Exum Speight
1  Fabian Meza

Can you point out the great fighters there please.
Stop chatting nonsense.
Not Klitschko's fault, but he fought in an era where heavyweight boxing was utterly crap.

Klitschko was never a great fighter, just a good one, and by the time he fought Joshua he was a has been.
He nearly beat Joushua because AJ has a glass jaw and turns zombie when hit....a poor mans Frank Bruno.

Why are we looking at just his first 43 fights? The 10 year unbeaten streak that cemented his legacy came after that. Is it because Wilder only had 43 fights so far? Obviously if Klitschko finished his career with only those first 43 fights his legacy would've been nonexistent.

Fair play, if Wilder can go unbeaten for the next 10 years and beat several world champions in the process i will give him his credit.

[jayramfootball]

Did you watch the Ortiz v Jennings fight? Did you watch Klitschko v Jennings?

So no response then? Alright.

Klitchsko first 43 fights - same number as Wilder has fought now: He actually LOST to the fighters in red.

43  Fabio Eduardo Moli
42  Corrie Sanders
41  Jameel McCline
40  Ray Mercer
39  Francois Botha
38  Charles Shufford
37  Derrick Jefferson
36  Chris Byrd
35  Monte Barrett
34  David Bostice
33  Paea Wolfgramm
32  Lajos Eros
31  Phil Jackson
30  Axel Schulz
29  Joseph Chingangu
28  Tony LaRosa
27  Everett Martin
26  Zoran Vujicic
25  Ross Puritty
24  Donnell Wingfield
23  Eli Dixon
22  Steve Pannell
21  Carlos Monroe
20  Najee Shaheed
19  Cody Koch
18  Everett Martin
17  Marcus McIntyre
16  Derrick Lampkins
15  Ladislav Husarik
14  Jerry Halstead
13  Marcos González
12  James Pritchard
11  Biko Botowamungu
10  Gilberto Williamson
9  Salvador Maciel
8  Paul Ashley
7  Mark Wills
6  Mark Young
5  Carlos Monroe
4  Troy Weida
3  Bill Corrigan
2  Exum Speight
1  Fabian Meza

Can you point out the great fighters there please.
Stop chatting nonsense.
Not Klitschko's fault, but he fought in an era where heavyweight boxing was utterly crap.

Klitschko was never a great fighter, just a good one, and by the time he fought Joshua he was a has been.
He nearly beat Joushua because AJ has a glass jaw and turns zombie when hit....a poor mans Frank Bruno.

Why are we looking at just his first 43 fights? The 10 year unbeaten streak that cemented his legacy came after that. Is it because Wilder only had 43 fights so far? Obviously if Klitschko finished his career with only those first 43 fights his legacy would've been nonexistent.

Fair play, if Wilder can go unbeaten for the next 10 years and beat several world champions in the process i will give him his credit.

Obviously because Wilder has only had 43 fights.
It's not in any way surprising that fighters who become world champions fight better fighters when they progress towards the the second half/third of their career.

For the record, though, Klitschko fought nobodys even later in his career until the end when he got smashed up. The so called world champions he beat were a collection of dead beats. In Klitchskho's era my grandma could have been world champion.. for example he beat the woeful David Haye . Wow.

[Jedi]

Did you watch the Ortiz v Jennings fight? Did you watch Klitschko v Jennings?

So no response then? Alright.

Klitchsko first 43 fights - same number as Wilder has fought now: He actually LOST to the fighters in red.

43  Fabio Eduardo Moli
42  Corrie Sanders
41  Jameel McCline
40  Ray Mercer
39  Francois Botha
38  Charles Shufford
37  Derrick Jefferson
36  Chris Byrd
35  Monte Barrett
34  David Bostice
33  Paea Wolfgramm
32  Lajos Eros
31  Phil Jackson
30  Axel Schulz
29  Joseph Chingangu
28  Tony LaRosa
27  Everett Martin
26  Zoran Vujicic
25  Ross Puritty
24  Donnell Wingfield
23  Eli Dixon
22  Steve Pannell
21  Carlos Monroe
20  Najee Shaheed
19  Cody Koch
18  Everett Martin
17  Marcus McIntyre
16  Derrick Lampkins
15  Ladislav Husarik
14  Jerry Halstead
13  Marcos González
12  James Pritchard
11  Biko Botowamungu
10  Gilberto Williamson
9  Salvador Maciel
8  Paul Ashley
7  Mark Wills
6  Mark Young
5  Carlos Monroe
4  Troy Weida
3  Bill Corrigan
2  Exum Speight
1  Fabian Meza

Can you point out the great fighters there please.
Stop chatting nonsense.
Not Klitschko's fault, but he fought in an era where heavyweight boxing was utterly crap.

Klitschko was never a great fighter, just a good one, and by the time he fought Joshua he was a has been.
He nearly beat Joushua because AJ has a glass jaw and turns zombie when hit....a poor mans Frank Bruno.

Why are we looking at just his first 43 fights? The 10 year unbeaten streak that cemented his legacy came after that. Is it because Wilder only had 43 fights so far? Obviously if Klitschko finished his career with only those first 43 fights his legacy would've been nonexistent.

Fair play, if Wilder can go unbeaten for the next 10 years and beat several world champions in the process i will give him his credit.

Obviously because Wilder has only had 43 fights.
It's not in any way surprising that fighters who become world champions fight better fighters when they progress towards the the second half/third of their career.

For the record, though, Klitschko fought nobodys even later in his career until the end when he got smashed up. The so called world champions he beat were a collection of dead beats. In Klitchskho's era my grandma could have been world champion.. for example he beat the woeful David Haye . Wow.

Prime David Haye knocks out Wilder.