The general boxing thread

Re: The general boxing thread

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:21 am

theHotHead wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:Wilder above Foreman?

His best win is Ortiz ffs.

I think DG has been smoking the hard stuff ......

He is placing to much value on Fury beating Wilder 3 times, FFS, Wilder isn't even good and his so-called punch power - meh. Fighting a load of bums padding out his record doesn't make him a hard hitter or great. Fury has boxing skill but there is not a hope in hell that Fury could stand up to heavy weight greats like Foreman, Ali, Tyson and Lewis. He wouldn't beat Frank Bruno because Fury's knockdown power isn't up there.


You've just disqualified yourself in spectactular fashion with that statement.

That's worse than even what JayRam has come out with.

I have watched all of Fury's fights and I have watched all of Tyson's fights and most of Lewis' fights. I have seen the big Ali fights and all of Bruno's fights. Here is why I am right and you are sadly mistaken:

Fury vs Foreman - Foreman had a far more powerful punch than Wilder who I think doesn't have that special a power punch at all, its over hyped. If Fury got clipped by Foreman it would be lights out, Fury has not demonstrated punch resistance, his movement when shadow boxing and hitting the bag is not the movement we see in fights.

Fury vs Ali - Ali demonstrated that he could beat the biggest punchers in Liston, Frazier and Foreman, his movement and ringcraft run rings around Fury's actual ringcraft. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

Fury vs Tyson - Tyson may have struggled with the height of Fury but his entire record is littered with fighters taller/bigger than him. Tyson was excellent at getting in close and delivering devastating body and head shots. Tyson had "real" knockout power as opposed to Wilder's exaggerated so-called power. I don't see Fury making a dent on Tyson.

Fury vs Lewis - Lewis in his prime was too good an all round boxer for Fury to beat. Not small at I think 6ft5, he had the height to not worry about Fury's advantage and the power and the jab to make Fury wary not to mentioned the boxing skill lacked by the current crop of heavyweights. Fury doesnt have the punch power to trouble Lewis.

Fury vs Bruno - Bruno, a supremely conditioned fighter with a big heart. His only losses were to Tyson twice, Lennox Lewis, Bonecrusher Smith and Tim Witherspoon, the best fighters in the era. I already said the current crop are nowhere as good as those in the 90s, definitely not as good as those in the 80s!



I think you underestimate Wilders punch power.

Fury is also far better than you are giving him credit for. Like Ali he's good at everything. Probably the most complete boxer since Ali.

As for Bruno. I disagree. He was just a slightly better version of Joshua. Decent but a glass jaw. Both literally go/went into a zombie state punch bag as soon as they are hit with a decent punch.
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby Arsenal Tone » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:45 am

Fury getting knocked down by Wilder and getting back up again (second fight?) was the moment that puts him right up there for me. You could see the look on Wilder's face. Normal fighters don't get up from that.

Mike Tyson is the best I've seen. Genuinely looked like he wanted to kill someone everytime he got in the ring (until he had his breakdown, then he seemed less angry/aggressive).

Angry Tyson vs current Fury would be an awesome fight, could go either way.
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby theHotHead » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:49 am

Rockape wrote:Bruno ( bless ‘im) was never a great boxer. He had a ramrod jab and concussive right hand that along his size, made him a fearsome opponent., for most.

But decent boxers could move around him and pick him off. Mike Tyson just steamed into him, without a care in the world.

It’s a good debate!

Its a fantastic debate !! Its that ramrod jab and solid right that I am thinking about, plus his chin that makes me believe he could've dealt with Fury, but I understand its all hypothetical and entirely subjective !! Imagine Bruno jabbing the life out of Wilder who wouldn't be able to bully Bruno in the ring.
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby theHotHead » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:52 am

Power n Glory wrote:
Rockape wrote:Yeah I’m certainly with HH on Mike Tyson, but probably not Bruno.

Also, let’s not let Tysons record get in the way of this debate about who would beat who. Mike Tyson lost his way quite quickly…….but at his best, he’d had removed Fury from the ring within a few mins if not seconds. Only those with the finest footwork and great jabs like Ali and Lewis would stand a chance of keeping him out and prolonging the fight far enough to give them a chance.


Cocaine, hookers and no training. Read his autobiography and the night before the Buster Douglas fight Tyson was partying hard. He just went off the rails and lost the plot. Considering how bad it got, it's good to see where he's at today. It's a complete turnaround.

Buster Douglas would've stood no chance at all had Tyson not gone off the rails, there was a reason why the odds were what they were for that fight. I honestly don't think Lewis would've stood a chance against prime Tyson, that fight took place a few years too late.
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby theHotHead » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:07 am

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:Wilder above Foreman?

His best win is Ortiz ffs.

I think DG has been smoking the hard stuff ......

He is placing to much value on Fury beating Wilder 3 times, FFS, Wilder isn't even good and his so-called punch power - meh. Fighting a load of bums padding out his record doesn't make him a hard hitter or great. Fury has boxing skill but there is not a hope in hell that Fury could stand up to heavy weight greats like Foreman, Ali, Tyson and Lewis. He wouldn't beat Frank Bruno because Fury's knockdown power isn't up there.


You've just disqualified yourself in spectactular fashion with that statement.

That's worse than even what JayRam has come out with.

I have watched all of Fury's fights and I have watched all of Tyson's fights and most of Lewis' fights. I have seen the big Ali fights and all of Bruno's fights. Here is why I am right and you are sadly mistaken:

Fury vs Foreman - Foreman had a far more powerful punch than Wilder who I think doesn't have that special a power punch at all, its over hyped. If Fury got clipped by Foreman it would be lights out, Fury has not demonstrated punch resistance, his movement when shadow boxing and hitting the bag is not the movement we see in fights.

Fury vs Ali - Ali demonstrated that he could beat the biggest punchers in Liston, Frazier and Foreman, his movement and ringcraft run rings around Fury's actual ringcraft. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

Fury vs Tyson - Tyson may have struggled with the height of Fury but his entire record is littered with fighters taller/bigger than him. Tyson was excellent at getting in close and delivering devastating body and head shots. Tyson had "real" knockout power as opposed to Wilder's exaggerated so-called power. I don't see Fury making a dent on Tyson.

Fury vs Lewis - Lewis in his prime was too good an all round boxer for Fury to beat. Not small at I think 6ft5, he had the height to not worry about Fury's advantage and the power and the jab to make Fury wary not to mentioned the boxing skill lacked by the current crop of heavyweights. Fury doesnt have the punch power to trouble Lewis.

Fury vs Bruno - Bruno, a supremely conditioned fighter with a big heart. His only losses were to Tyson twice, Lennox Lewis, Bonecrusher Smith and Tim Witherspoon, the best fighters in the era. I already said the current crop are nowhere as good as those in the 90s, definitely not as good as those in the 80s!



I think you underestimate Wilders punch power.

Fury is also far better than you are giving him credit for. Like Ali he's good at everything. Probably the most complete boxer since Ali.

As for Bruno. I disagree. He was just a slightly better version of Joshua. Decent but a glass jaw. Both literally go/went into a zombie state punch bag as soon as they are hit with a decent punch.

Am I jay ? Look at Wilder's list of opponents, a who's who of nobodies. Knocking out doormen and security guards or whatever isn't proof to me that Wilder has the dynamite punch that people claim. Tyson was knocking out World champions. Fury is just a man, Wilder's best punches couldn't put Fury away over 3 fights - or do you think Fury has the best chin in the business ?!!! I certainly don't.

As for Fury's skill, I highly rate him, for me he is comfortably the best of this era and skill-wise, most eras. I just think for his size he has weak punching power. But lets not claim he is a Muhummad Ali, Ali showed great footwork and movement in fights, not just when shadow boxing, Fury doesn't tend to display his great footwork and movement in fights.
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:54 am

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:Wilder above Foreman?

His best win is Ortiz ffs.

I think DG has been smoking the hard stuff ......

He is placing to much value on Fury beating Wilder 3 times, FFS, Wilder isn't even good and his so-called punch power - meh. Fighting a load of bums padding out his record doesn't make him a hard hitter or great. Fury has boxing skill but there is not a hope in hell that Fury could stand up to heavy weight greats like Foreman, Ali, Tyson and Lewis. He wouldn't beat Frank Bruno because Fury's knockdown power isn't up there.


You've just disqualified yourself in spectactular fashion with that statement.

That's worse than even what JayRam has come out with.

I have watched all of Fury's fights and I have watched all of Tyson's fights and most of Lewis' fights. I have seen the big Ali fights and all of Bruno's fights. Here is why I am right and you are sadly mistaken:

Fury vs Foreman - Foreman had a far more powerful punch than Wilder who I think doesn't have that special a power punch at all, its over hyped. If Fury got clipped by Foreman it would be lights out, Fury has not demonstrated punch resistance, his movement when shadow boxing and hitting the bag is not the movement we see in fights.

Fury vs Ali - Ali demonstrated that he could beat the biggest punchers in Liston, Frazier and Foreman, his movement and ringcraft run rings around Fury's actual ringcraft. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

Fury vs Tyson - Tyson may have struggled with the height of Fury but his entire record is littered with fighters taller/bigger than him. Tyson was excellent at getting in close and delivering devastating body and head shots. Tyson had "real" knockout power as opposed to Wilder's exaggerated so-called power. I don't see Fury making a dent on Tyson.

Fury vs Lewis - Lewis in his prime was too good an all round boxer for Fury to beat. Not small at I think 6ft5, he had the height to not worry about Fury's advantage and the power and the jab to make Fury wary not to mentioned the boxing skill lacked by the current crop of heavyweights. Fury doesnt have the punch power to trouble Lewis.

Fury vs Bruno - Bruno, a supremely conditioned fighter with a big heart. His only losses were to Tyson twice, Lennox Lewis, Bonecrusher Smith and Tim Witherspoon, the best fighters in the era. I already said the current crop are nowhere as good as those in the 90s, definitely not as good as those in the 80s!



I think you underestimate Wilders punch power.

Fury is also far better than you are giving him credit for. Like Ali he's good at everything. Probably the most complete boxer since Ali.

As for Bruno. I disagree. He was just a slightly better version of Joshua. Decent but a glass jaw. Both literally go/went into a zombie state punch bag as soon as they are hit with a decent punch.

Am I jay ? Look at Wilder's list of opponents, a who's who of nobodies. Knocking out doormen and security guards or whatever isn't proof to me that Wilder has the dynamite punch that people claim. Tyson was knocking out World champions. Fury is just a man, Wilder's best punches couldn't put Fury away over 3 fights - or do you think Fury has the best chin in the business ?!!! I certainly don't.

As for Fury's skill, I highly rate him, for me he is comfortably the best of this era and skill-wise, most eras. I just think for his size he has weak punching power. But lets not claim he is a Muhummad Ali, Ali showed great footwork and movement in fights, not just when shadow boxing, Fury doesn't tend to display his great footwork and movement in fights.


Look at most fighters careers and you'll see the majority of their fights were against poor/ inferior opponents.
It's only when they reach the top they fight better guys more regularly.

Don't think Wilders knockout record can be underplayed.
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby theHotHead » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:48 am

Some info on Wilder's boxing record !

Following Deontay Wilder’s first professional loss in last month’s rematch with Tyson Fury in Las Vegas, the ‘Bronze Bomber’s’ boxing record has been put under a microscope through an infographic produced by Touch Gloves Boxing documenting his first 39 opponents and their rankings.

What is immediately striking is that this infographic subsequently highlights 19 of the 39 boxers that Wilder faced were unranked by world boxing.


Touch Gloves Boxing produced the infographic after Wilder had defended his WBC belt in 2017 against Bermane Stiverne.

It showed that the 41-year-old Haitian-Canadian boxer was the highest ranked boxer that the American had fought.

Stiverne was the fourth ranked heavyweight in the world going into their first fight back in 2015, where he lost his WBC title to Wilder.


This fight was Wilder’s 33rd professional fight and it was the first time that ‘the Bronze Bomber’ went the full 12 round distance and ultimately won via points.

By the time of their rematch two years later in 2017, Stiverne was unranked by world boxing and was subsequently dispatched by Wilder more comprehensively in a first-round knockout.

Wilder’s next highest ranked opponent he faced was Polish fighter Artur Szpilka, who was ranked 24th in the world, and before he was stopped in the ninth with a huge right hand, he was winning on some of the judges’ scorecards.


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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby theHotHead » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:49 am

Like i said, knocking out a bunch of nobodies doesn't make Wilder special.
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:08 pm

theHotHead wrote:Like i said, knocking out a bunch of nobodies doesn't make Wilder special.


Go down the list of any boxer and the majority of their fights are against 'nobodies'.
Also, the ability to absorb a punch is not exclusive to the top 10 or 20 in the world.
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby theHotHead » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:34 pm

A trained high level highly ranked boxer has a greater chance of absorbing blows than a some-timeish boxer. There is a reason a boxer is ranked 300 versus a boxer ranked 10, for example, the ability to deliver a telling blow allied to the ability to either slip blows or absorb them.
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:43 pm

theHotHead wrote:A trained high level highly ranked boxer has a greater chance of absorbing blows than a some-timeish boxer. There is a reason a boxer is ranked 300 versus a boxer ranked 10, for example, the ability to deliver a telling blow allied to the ability to either slip blows or absorb them.


Are you saying it is not possible for boxer not in the top level of boxing to be able to take a punch?
Honestly, I find your conclusion that Wilder doesn't have big punch power to be odd.
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby DiamondGooner » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:08 pm

theHotHead wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:Wilder above Foreman?

His best win is Ortiz ffs.

I think DG has been smoking the hard stuff ......

He is placing to much value on Fury beating Wilder 3 times, FFS, Wilder isn't even good and his so-called punch power - meh. Fighting a load of bums padding out his record doesn't make him a hard hitter or great. Fury has boxing skill but there is not a hope in hell that Fury could stand up to heavy weight greats like Foreman, Ali, Tyson and Lewis. He wouldn't beat Frank Bruno because Fury's knockdown power isn't up there.


You've just disqualified yourself in spectactular fashion with that statement.

That's worse than even what JayRam has come out with.

I have watched all of Fury's fights and I have watched all of Tyson's fights and most of Lewis' fights. I have seen the big Ali fights and all of Bruno's fights. Here is why I am right and you are sadly mistaken:

Fury vs Foreman - Foreman had a far more powerful punch than Wilder who I think doesn't have that special a power punch at all, its over hyped. If Fury got clipped by Foreman it would be lights out, Fury has not demonstrated punch resistance, his movement when shadow boxing and hitting the bag is not the movement we see in fights.

Fury vs Ali - Ali demonstrated that he could beat the biggest punchers in Liston, Frazier and Foreman, his movement and ringcraft run rings around Fury's actual ringcraft. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

Fury vs Tyson - Tyson may have struggled with the height of Fury but his entire record is littered with fighters taller/bigger than him. Tyson was excellent at getting in close and delivering devastating body and head shots. Tyson had "real" knockout power as opposed to Wilder's exaggerated so-called power. I don't see Fury making a dent on Tyson.

Fury vs Lewis - Lewis in his prime was too good an all round boxer for Fury to beat. Not small at I think 6ft5, he had the height to not worry about Fury's advantage and the power and the jab to make Fury wary not to mentioned the boxing skill lacked by the current crop of heavyweights. Fury doesnt have the punch power to trouble Lewis.

Fury vs Bruno - Bruno, a supremely conditioned fighter with a big heart. His only losses were to Tyson twice, Lennox Lewis, Bonecrusher Smith and Tim Witherspoon, the best fighters in the era. I already said the current crop are nowhere as good as those in the 90s, definitely not as good as those in the 80s!


There's so much wrong with this post i legit don't know where to start.

All I'll say is Tyson Fury is the best of all time.

He can box, he can fight, he can take a punch, he has heart and he's 19st, 6'9.

He's as good if not better than Lewis at boxing.

Too big for Tyson, there's nothing Lewis did to Tyson that Fury couldn't.

Too long for Ali, go watch Ali vs Holmes, yes he was old but still.

Foreman is shorter and slower than Wilder, he'd get out boxed.

Tyson is too good and too big and has several ways to fight.

You have no idea.
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby theHotHead » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:09 pm

Of course not, but if you are highly trained the chances are you getting punched in the face won't be as devastating to you as someone who isn't highly trained. Example, when I was in secondary school, the first time I had a fight and got punched in the face my head spun, vision went blurry. The next time I had a fight and got punched in the face in school the blurry vision didn't affect me that much because I knew it would go after about 10-15 seconds - at which point someone is in trouble - and it aint me !

Like MMA fighters smashing their shins to kill the nerves, elite level fighters can take more punishment than part timers or newbies. some journeyman fighter. Of course there are some Joe Bloggs that can take a punch and has never fought a fight in his life, exceptions don't make the rule though.
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby theHotHead » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:18 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:Wilder above Foreman?

His best win is Ortiz ffs.

I think DG has been smoking the hard stuff ......

He is placing to much value on Fury beating Wilder 3 times, FFS, Wilder isn't even good and his so-called punch power - meh. Fighting a load of bums padding out his record doesn't make him a hard hitter or great. Fury has boxing skill but there is not a hope in hell that Fury could stand up to heavy weight greats like Foreman, Ali, Tyson and Lewis. He wouldn't beat Frank Bruno because Fury's knockdown power isn't up there.


You've just disqualified yourself in spectactular fashion with that statement.

That's worse than even what JayRam has come out with.

I have watched all of Fury's fights and I have watched all of Tyson's fights and most of Lewis' fights. I have seen the big Ali fights and all of Bruno's fights. Here is why I am right and you are sadly mistaken:

Fury vs Foreman - Foreman had a far more powerful punch than Wilder who I think doesn't have that special a power punch at all, its over hyped. If Fury got clipped by Foreman it would be lights out, Fury has not demonstrated punch resistance, his movement when shadow boxing and hitting the bag is not the movement we see in fights.

Fury vs Ali - Ali demonstrated that he could beat the biggest punchers in Liston, Frazier and Foreman, his movement and ringcraft run rings around Fury's actual ringcraft. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

Fury vs Tyson - Tyson may have struggled with the height of Fury but his entire record is littered with fighters taller/bigger than him. Tyson was excellent at getting in close and delivering devastating body and head shots. Tyson had "real" knockout power as opposed to Wilder's exaggerated so-called power. I don't see Fury making a dent on Tyson.

Fury vs Lewis - Lewis in his prime was too good an all round boxer for Fury to beat. Not small at I think 6ft5, he had the height to not worry about Fury's advantage and the power and the jab to make Fury wary not to mentioned the boxing skill lacked by the current crop of heavyweights. Fury doesnt have the punch power to trouble Lewis.

Fury vs Bruno - Bruno, a supremely conditioned fighter with a big heart. His only losses were to Tyson twice, Lennox Lewis, Bonecrusher Smith and Tim Witherspoon, the best fighters in the era. I already said the current crop are nowhere as good as those in the 90s, definitely not as good as those in the 80s!


There's so much wrong with this post i legit don't know where to start.

All I'll say is Tyson Fury is the best of all time.

He can box, he can fight, he can take a punch, he has heart and he's 19st, 6'9.

He's as good if not better than Lewis at boxing.

Too big for Tyson, there's nothing Lewis did to Tyson that Fury couldn't.

Too long for Ali, go watch Ali vs Holmes, yes he was old but still.

Foreman is shorter and slower than Wilder, he'd get out boxed.

Tyson is too good and too big and has several ways to fight.

You have no idea.

DG, you were a boxer, did you ever box or have a fight with anyone considerably taller/bigger than you?

Since when did size dictate the outcome of a fight ?! How on earth did David Haye beat Valuev ? Look at MMA, the number of times giants have been taken out by smaller opponents
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Re: The general boxing thread

Postby Jedi » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:36 pm

Where did DG say that Fury will win ONLY because he's tall? And what does MMA have to do with boxing? Hothead you're talking nonsense
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