Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

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Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Angelito » Tue May 30, 2017 12:54 pm

I'm talking about our squad from 2001 - 2005 primarily here. We won 2 PL titles and 3 FA Cups during the span. In Europe, our best finish was the QFs of the CL in 03/04.

- 01/02
2nd group stage

- 02/03
2nd group stage

- 03/04
QFs (Knocked out by Chelsea)

- 04/05
Round of 16 (Knocked out by Bayern)

Add to that the calamity of a bottle-job in the Prem in 02/03, when we squandered an 8-point lead that we had over ManU during March, and lost the title in the penultimate match of the season.

Ideally, we should have won the Premier League 3 times in a row between 01 and 04. And, we were in pole position to win the CL in 03/04, if it weren't for Arsenal bottling as per ush. It's quite evident that 01 - 06 is Arsenal's finest hour, probably rivalled only by the side of 69 - 71 (that won the Double and the European Fairs Cup) and Graham's solid side of the late 80s/early 90s.

Every great side since Wenger joined Arsenal has won the Treble—SAF's ManU, Pep's Barca, Mou's Inter, Heynckes' Bayern, and Messi-led Barca of 14/15. Juve are on course this season.

We didn't have to win the Treble of course, but it's such a bitter pill to digest that we didn't manage to clinch the League and CL double in 03/04. In the CL final, in 2006, we were up against FC Ronaldinho, and in hindsight, it would have been a shame if the most talented player of the modern era didn't win it. In 03/04, the final was a poverty showdown between Porto and Monaco. That is such a, "It should have been us," moment. :(

So, what was the immovable object that wouldn't give between 2001 and 2005 in Europe for us? Why couldn't we break into Europe's elite in arguably the best era Arsenal has seen?


PS: Please refrain from Wonga, wonga, more wonga--for sure, wonga.. Wonga, why wonga? kind of posts. Let's be constructive here.
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Arsenal Tone » Tue May 30, 2017 2:24 pm

Could also ask how that group of players failed to win back to back league titles!
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Angelito » Tue May 30, 2017 2:42 pm

Tony_Adams wrote:Could also ask how that group of players failed to win back to back league titles!


Ideally, we should have won the Premier League 3 times in a row between 01 and 04.


;)
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Arsenal Tone » Tue May 30, 2017 3:16 pm

:hiding: only read half the post, sorry
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby greengoonerie » Tue May 30, 2017 3:32 pm

IMO it was an inability to change our style of play to suit the opposition.

In Europe, most of our defeats came despite us having greater possession than the opponents.

We had a very one dimensional style to our football - really exciting to watch - but if you figured it out (as the better managers did) then it was easy to nullify and ultimately defeat.

Whether it was Bayern, Birmingham or Burnley, we played the same way - we won many games but lost the big ones.
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Massa » Tue May 30, 2017 3:33 pm

wenger is awful in europe
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Tue May 30, 2017 9:54 pm

Because Wenger is the most under-achieving manager in European football history, as I've said many times.
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Sims » Tue May 30, 2017 9:55 pm

Our best chance was 2004 and we blew it. What Wenger did in 2006 for Europe was quite remarkable though, if we went in with that mentality and nous with the previous years we could've won it
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Tue May 30, 2017 9:59 pm

Patrick Vieira never made it past the quarter-finals with us. That is incredible.
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Sims » Tue May 30, 2017 10:02 pm

remember when a like 20 year old cesc completely dominated vieira's & juve's midfield :crybaby:
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Wed May 31, 2017 2:30 am

Because there were many more European teams which were strong domestically and in europe than today. Early 2000s had a peak AC Milan, a very good Inter Milan as well as the likes of Valencia and Deportivo making life tough for English teams.

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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Arsenal Tone » Wed May 31, 2017 8:40 am

Va-Va-Voom wrote:Patrick Vieira never made it past the quarter-finals with us. That is incredible.


Pretty sure wanting to win the CL was one of his reasons for leaving.
Raya/Ramsdale
White/Tomiyasu--Saliba/Timber--Gabriel/Kiwior--???/Zinchenko
???/Jorginho
Odegaard/Smith Rowe----Rice/???
Saka/Jesus-------------------Martinelli/Trossard
???/Havertz
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Arsenal~Fanatic » Wed May 31, 2017 8:43 am

When a manager has not the Champions league ever and has been repeatedly found out of depth in Europe the reason is obvious. Wenger just lacks the tactical nuance and the ability to organize a defence at European level.
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Nuggets » Wed May 31, 2017 8:55 am

Arsenal~Fanatic wrote:When a manager has not the Champions league ever and has been repeatedly found out of depth in Europe the reason is obvious. Wenger just lacks the tactical nuance and the ability to organize a defence at European level.


This.
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Re: Why did the Invincibles underachieve in Europe?

Postby Sims » Wed May 31, 2017 9:15 am

Don't we hold the record for most minutes without conceding a goal in CL history
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