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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:59 pm
by jayramfootball
elkanofan wrote:
VCC wrote:Should have got grealish,
My only criticism of him is he is sometimes too greedy.
Or Ziyech in 2019!!! Who wanted to join us.

Nevermind.

There still Harit and that Hungarian dude we cam get in January among others

Can't see Aouar ever coming now.



jayramfootball wrote:
elkanofan wrote:Everyone ignoring as per usual if Ozil finally f***ked off we should of just brought another attacking creative player who is good, consistent and doesn't hide in big games like Ozil all his career especially away from home.

We lack creativity, we all agree. I've been saying for coming on 18 months now we need a new attacking mid. Ozil is finished and Arteta's deficiencies at getting anything out of the little creativity we have with Ceballos and Willian is being lapped up by Ozil's marketing team.

Very Convenient we seem to forget Ozil played 10 games at AM under Arteta. Grand total of 1 goal, 1 assist and we still struggled to score goals and create anyway.


You fundamentally misunderstand the game of you think creativity = goals + assists.
No player in our squad has even got close to being as good as Ozil up to the end of 2018 and in the last 2 years Ozil was still one of the most creative players in our team.
1st in many areas.


It does in the final 3rd. We don't pay someone 350k a week for expected assists or some other flimsy stat bollocks. We pay him not just to make nice passes but to be effective at the end of them and achieve numbers which leads to results and Arsenal succeeding.

He needs to score minimum 5 goal and try to make double figures if possible.

We expect him to hit a minimum of 10 assists to justify his price tag, considering he's not play DLP, he's an attacking mid, a player playing that high up the pitch needs to directly making goals happen, if he's not he's no use to us.

He did this from 2015 to 2017 but since then he's shit. Plain shit, a steaming pile of horse manure.


Incorrect.
Especially in the final third, creativity is about far more than assists and goals.
slide rule passes to a wide player who squares it for a goal, clever dummies to fool defenders and set other players free, accurate long passes wide to switch play and create opening for crosses, one twos with midfield partners that creates space for pass into a striker, corners that create danger in the penalty area and lead to a goal (not directly form the corner), accurate free kicks nodded down for a striker to score.. I could go on, but creativity is not just the final pass or the goal.
Ozil's dropped off in the last 2 years in terms of the final pass that led to a goal, but his drop off in terms of involvement in forward play was far less severe. In fact, he was 5th in the entire squad last year in terms of involvement (significant involvement not just a sideways pass) in goals per 90 minutes.

It is fair to say that Ozil in the last 2 years was far less successful at getting into advanced positions to generate assists, but he was still a creative force in the team - in fact, was praised for MotM performances under Arteta.

Last year - multiple examples


You'd have to be a complete loon to watch Ozil's performances last year and not realise he could help us in our current situation.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:02 pm
by jayramfootball
Angelito wrote:Imagine having a player who was only second to Lionel fkin Messi in chances created and assists until 2019; who created the most chances in the 2010 World Cup, who created the second-most chances to Messi in the 2014 World Cup, who created the most chances for Germany in the 2018 World Cup... And he's not good enough when we have no creative players in the squad?

What the f**k?


Exactly.

Our performances this year have not only shamed Arteta for his decision on Ozil, but also taken the legs out from under the Ozil haters that spread complete nonsense on this thread.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:29 pm
by VCC
For Arteta to put Ozil back into the squad or team it would be more managerial suicide than his leaving him out.
For what ever footballing or non footballing reasons the decision was made to change IMO the power base from players to club, a relinquish of that decision would spell the end of Arteta.
Arteta was not my choice but I do agree with his stance on the power base of the club, I am not Ozils biggest fan and see peeps point of veiw to what he could offer although I think those days have passed him as has the era of the #10,
Ozil as is Sokratis and douzi are collateral damage.
We new this would be a long fix with up and downs with some ugly football and ugly losses along that way.
But I would rather have the club back in charge than the spoilt brats employed pulling the strings.
What I however do not agree with is certain players being brought who are no better in value or longevity this is my biggest concerne and that alone brings in to question the stance on both Ozil and Sokratis

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:14 pm
by Dejan
jayramfootball wrote:
Angelito wrote:Imagine having a player who was only second to Lionel fkin Messi in chances created and assists until 2019; who created the most chances in the 2010 World Cup, who created the second-most chances to Messi in the 2014 World Cup, who created the most chances for Germany in the 2018 World Cup... And he's not good enough when we have no creative players in the squad?

What the f**k?


Exactly.

Our performances this year have not only shamed Arteta for his decision on Ozil, but also taken the legs out from under the Ozil haters that spread complete nonsense on this thread.
How lol

Last year we were easily equally as shit as we are now.

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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:15 pm
by swipe right
Arteta should have never gotten involved in negotiating with the players to take a salary cut on behalf of the board. His relationship with Ozil has gone downhill from there.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:00 pm
by elkanofan
jayramfootball wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
VCC wrote:Should have got grealish,
My only criticism of him is he is sometimes too greedy.
Or Ziyech in 2019!!! Who wanted to join us.

Nevermind.

There still Harit and that Hungarian dude we cam get in January among others

Can't see Aouar ever coming now.



jayramfootball wrote:
elkanofan wrote:Everyone ignoring as per usual if Ozil finally f***ked off we should of just brought another attacking creative player who is good, consistent and doesn't hide in big games like Ozil all his career especially away from home.

We lack creativity, we all agree. I've been saying for coming on 18 months now we need a new attacking mid. Ozil is finished and Arteta's deficiencies at getting anything out of the little creativity we have with Ceballos and Willian is being lapped up by Ozil's marketing team.

Very Convenient we seem to forget Ozil played 10 games at AM under Arteta. Grand total of 1 goal, 1 assist and we still struggled to score goals and create anyway.


You fundamentally misunderstand the game of you think creativity = goals + assists.
No player in our squad has even got close to being as good as Ozil up to the end of 2018 and in the last 2 years Ozil was still one of the most creative players in our team.
1st in many areas.


It does in the final 3rd. We don't pay someone 350k a week for expected assists or some other flimsy stat bollocks. We pay him not just to make nice passes but to be effective at the end of them and achieve numbers which leads to results and Arsenal succeeding.

He needs to score minimum 5 goal and try to make double figures if possible.

We expect him to hit a minimum of 10 assists to justify his price tag, considering he's not play DLP, he's an attacking mid, a player playing that high up the pitch needs to directly making goals happen, if he's not he's no use to us.

He did this from 2015 to 2017 but since then he's shit. Plain shit, a steaming pile of horse manure.


Incorrect.
Especially in the final third, creativity is about far more than assists and goals.
slide rule passes to a wide player who squares it for a goal, clever dummies to fool defenders and set other players free, accurate long passes wide to switch play and create opening for crosses, one twos with midfield partners that creates space for pass into a striker, corners that create danger in the penalty area and lead to a goal (not directly form the corner), accurate free kicks nodded down for a striker to score.. I could go on, but creativity is not just the final pass or the goal.
Ozil's dropped off in the last 2 years in terms of the final pass that led to a goal, but his drop off in terms of involvement in forward play was far less severe. In fact, he was 5th in the entire squad last year in terms of involvement (significant involvement not just a sideways pass) in goals per 90 minutes.

It is fair to say that Ozil in the last 2 years was far less successful at getting into advanced positions to generate assists, but he was still a creative force in the team - in fact, was praised for MotM performances under Arteta.

Last year - multiple examples


You'd have to be a complete loon to watch Ozil's performances last year and not realise he could help us in our current situation.
Jay. A playmaker on 350k a week should be able to do all of that AND produce. Why you keep making escuses for this guy is a joke. He must do both, the small things to create space deep and the major things to produce goals and assists in the final 3rd.

You cannot have a guy who does a few nice flicks every now and again playing AM who doesn't directly make goals happen enough.

You seem to say these things as if i don't see them. I monitored Ozil with much scrutiny last season and he was horse manure. Total garbage. Even that youtube video makes him look even worse. Little fanboy cutting the video each time the pass or flick didn't even come off with the usual orgy of effects.

Nobody cared to mention much about Ozil's non assist contributions when he was producing numbers from 2015-2017 for us because all the nice interplay from him was resulting in numbers. Showing his quality and effectiveness.

Like i said. He like United's all time leading goalscorer Wayne Rooney are Championship level players now. All players have their boom bust cycle and Ozil is past his boom and has big issues with his ego accepting the truth of his bust.

We need a new attacking mid. He needs to leave. We must move on.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:14 am
by jayramfootball
elkanofan wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
VCC wrote:Should have got grealish,
My only criticism of him is he is sometimes too greedy.
Or Ziyech in 2019!!! Who wanted to join us.

Nevermind.

There still Harit and that Hungarian dude we cam get in January among others

Can't see Aouar ever coming now.



jayramfootball wrote:
elkanofan wrote:Everyone ignoring as per usual if Ozil finally f***ked off we should of just brought another attacking creative player who is good, consistent and doesn't hide in big games like Ozil all his career especially away from home.

We lack creativity, we all agree. I've been saying for coming on 18 months now we need a new attacking mid. Ozil is finished and Arteta's deficiencies at getting anything out of the little creativity we have with Ceballos and Willian is being lapped up by Ozil's marketing team.

Very Convenient we seem to forget Ozil played 10 games at AM under Arteta. Grand total of 1 goal, 1 assist and we still struggled to score goals and create anyway.


You fundamentally misunderstand the game of you think creativity = goals + assists.
No player in our squad has even got close to being as good as Ozil up to the end of 2018 and in the last 2 years Ozil was still one of the most creative players in our team.
1st in many areas.


It does in the final 3rd. We don't pay someone 350k a week for expected assists or some other flimsy stat bollocks. We pay him not just to make nice passes but to be effective at the end of them and achieve numbers which leads to results and Arsenal succeeding.

He needs to score minimum 5 goal and try to make double figures if possible.

We expect him to hit a minimum of 10 assists to justify his price tag, considering he's not play DLP, he's an attacking mid, a player playing that high up the pitch needs to directly making goals happen, if he's not he's no use to us.

He did this from 2015 to 2017 but since then he's shit. Plain shit, a steaming pile of horse manure.


Incorrect.
Especially in the final third, creativity is about far more than assists and goals.
slide rule passes to a wide player who squares it for a goal, clever dummies to fool defenders and set other players free, accurate long passes wide to switch play and create opening for crosses, one twos with midfield partners that creates space for pass into a striker, corners that create danger in the penalty area and lead to a goal (not directly form the corner), accurate free kicks nodded down for a striker to score.. I could go on, but creativity is not just the final pass or the goal.
Ozil's dropped off in the last 2 years in terms of the final pass that led to a goal, but his drop off in terms of involvement in forward play was far less severe. In fact, he was 5th in the entire squad last year in terms of involvement (significant involvement not just a sideways pass) in goals per 90 minutes.

It is fair to say that Ozil in the last 2 years was far less successful at getting into advanced positions to generate assists, but he was still a creative force in the team - in fact, was praised for MotM performances under Arteta.

Last year - multiple examples


You'd have to be a complete loon to watch Ozil's performances last year and not realise he could help us in our current situation.
Jay. A playmaker on 350k a week should be able to do all of that AND produce. Why you keep making escuses for this guy is a joke. He must do both, the small things to create space deep and the major things to produce goals and assists in the final 3rd.

You cannot have a guy who does a few nice flicks every now and again playing AM who doesn't directly make goals happen enough.

You seem to say these things as if i don't see them. I monitored Ozil with much scrutiny last season and he was horse manure. Total garbage. Even that youtube video makes him look even worse. Little fanboy cutting the video each time the pass or flick didn't even come off with the usual orgy of effects.

Nobody cared to mention much about Ozil's non assist contributions when he was producing numbers from 2015-2017 for us because all the nice interplay from him was resulting in numbers. Showing his quality and effectiveness.

Like i said. He like United's all time leading goalscorer Wayne Rooney are Championship level players now. All players have their boom bust cycle and Ozil is past his boom and has big issues with his ego accepting the truth of his bust.

We need a new attacking mid. He needs to leave. We must move on.


You clearly don't see the real game unfolding - only what you want to see.
To characterise some of the creative play as 'a few nice tricks' demonstrates that you either don't understand the game or have abandoned reason for your hatred of a player.
For example : a slide rule pass or a perfectly weighted pass past the FB for a wide player to square it for an easy goal is not a 'trick'. It's also not an assist. It is just brilliant creative play.

Don't change the goalposts here - no one has said Ozil is worth 350k a week and no one has said he shouldn't also have contributed more assists and goals in the last 2 years.

What I am telling you - correctly - is that even from 2018-2020 Ozil was one our best creative players and only a fool would suggest he is not worth a place in the current squad - either used as a starter or when we need more creativity in midfield (which happens to be every game right now).

The way we are playing now proves conclusively that Arteta made a huge f*** up.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:37 am
by The Break Water
We don't create any chances, we only look dangerous on penalties lol.

Ozil can't be left out of the entire squad, it makes zero sense.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:20 am
by swipe right
Ozil taking the piss on Instagram. Working out with the #AlwaysReady. :rofll:

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:38 am
by LMAO
8 more months.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:36 am
by starmandb
The Break Water wrote:We don't create any chances, we only look dangerous on penalties lol.

Ozil can't be left out of the entire squad, it makes zero sense.

We have scored 65 goals under arteta
4 of them have been penalties

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:47 am
by EliteKiller
Is he back next week? Germany? Arsenal? ....

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:59 am
by Power n Glory
swipe right wrote:Ozil taking the piss on Instagram. Working out with the #AlwaysReady. :rofll:


All the more reason why I don't want him back in the team. If he's purposely trolling to inflame tensions, he's going out of his way to hurt the club. He can f**k off.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:21 am
by jayramfootball
Power n Glory wrote:
swipe right wrote:Ozil taking the piss on Instagram. Working out with the #AlwaysReady. :rofll:


All the more reason why I don't want him back in the team. If he's purposely trolling to inflame tensions, he's going out of his way to hurt the club. He can f**k off.


How so.
He's letting people know he is ready to play.
Arsenal's management and Arteta have created this mess. No one else.
They tried to publicly humiliate Ozil and its backfired.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:47 am
by swipe right
His insta game is on point.