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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby HalHartley » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:02 pm

King of Highbury XIV wrote:
HalHartley wrote:
King of Highbury XIV wrote:
Sims wrote:Didn’t he provide the most assists for the team with the most points in La Liga history lmao

And for that he's a legend? For winning 1 La Liga out of Real's 30 something???

Ozil big time trophies include the following;
1. Player of the Year 14/15 - UEFA Nations League w/ Germany
2. Player of the Year 14/15 - Euro Qualifiers
3. World Cup 2014
4. Buli Cup 08/09
5. Copa Del Rey 2010/11
6. La Liga 2011/12
7. 3x FA Cup 2014, 2015, 2016

And he's been the assists leader 4 times in his career, the last time being in 2012. 09/10 Buli season with Werder Bremen, 2010/11 CL w/ Real, Euro Qualifiers 2010/11, and Finally La Liga 2011/12 where Ozil put up 19 assists and 4 goals in 2,561 minutes, however, you also need to consider Ronaldo bagged 46 league goals, Higuain had 22 and Benz had 21. On top of that, the 2nd player with the most amount of assists that year in La Liga was Kaka w/ 10 assists and 5 goals in 1,368 minutes. So you guys can stop with this Ozil is a world class player. Ya maybe in 2011/12 he was world class. That's almost a decade ago. And even then, you could make a solid argument that Kaka was just as good if not better in the limited time he got.


What the f**k you been smoking? Making up shit to win a argument

https://www.transfermarkt.us/mesut-ozil ... eler/35664

Put the crack pipe down


Nations league never existed back then so how could he be the top player in it
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby StLGooner » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:04 pm

This argument is the equivalent of 5 y/o boys on the playground at school arguing over who's dad can beat who's up.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby HalHartley » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:07 pm

StLGooner wrote:This argument is the equivalent of 5 y/o boys on the playground at school arguing over who's dad can beat who's up.


Well my dad comes out on top as nation league was not invented then :arse fan:
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby King of Highbury XIV » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:10 pm

HalHartley wrote:Nations league never existed back then so how could he be the top player in it

You are right. My apologies, champ. Looks like I listed that honor twice. I will edit my post. Even then, that's one less major trophy for Ozil which further solidifies my point of him not being world class for a long time.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby Nuggets » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:11 pm

StLGooner wrote:This argument is the equivalent of 5 y/o boys on the playground at school arguing over who's dad can beat who's up.

:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby King of Highbury XIV » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:11 pm

StLGooner wrote:This argument is the equivalent of 5 y/o boys on the playground at school arguing over who's dad can beat who's up.

Maybe for the people who are in the Ozil is world class camp and have nothing to back it up aside from their word which against actual stats is meaningless.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby HalHartley » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:13 pm

King of Highbury XIV wrote:
HalHartley wrote:Nations league never existed back then so how could he be the top player in it

You are right. My apologies, champ. Looks like I listed that honor twice. I will edit my post. Even then, that's one less major trophy for Ozil which further solidifies my point of him not being world class for a long time.


No worries bro we all make mistakes, I was not attacking ozil or you just thought it was strange to see nations league mentioned as it is a new thing.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby StLGooner » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:14 pm

King of Highbury XIV wrote:
StLGooner wrote:This argument is the equivalent of 5 y/o boys on the playground at school arguing over who's dad can beat who's up.

Maybe for the people who are in the Ozil is world class camp and have nothing to back it up aside from their word which against actual stats is meaningless.



Your response just helps prove my point. Get over it homie! You can't even respond to me without making a snide comment about those people. Time to be an adult.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby HalHartley » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:19 pm

Maybe you should both be adults, clearly throw the toys out the pram when proven wrong
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby StLGooner » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:22 pm

HalHartley wrote:Maybe you should both be adults, clearly throw the toys out the pram when proven wrong



Who me? I wasn't even in the argument :dontknow:
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby HalHartley » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:42 pm

StLGooner wrote:
HalHartley wrote:Maybe you should both be adults, clearly throw the toys out the pram when proven wrong



Who me? I wasn't even in the argument :dontknow:


I was being sarcastic, Was not even a argument, it was never heated, I just pointed out a mistake he made, he had the balls to admit his mistake.

Back on topic hopefully Ozil can show the best of himself tonight, a must win game for sure
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby theHotHead » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:34 pm

King of Highbury XIV wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Moving goalposts as usual EK !!!

The argument was made that nobody would remember Ozil and I argued that they would, because he was the best CAM in the world during his prime. In the same way people remember other world class players like Hasler, Scifo, Hagi etc, people will remember Ozil - not least because he was a constant topic for debate.

Stick to the argument or stop arguing.

No one but you and your mates are going to talk about Ozil and refer to him as a legend of any sort. A legend for what? What has he accomplished in European football that makes you think people will rank him up their with the Ronaldo's, the Henry's, the Beckenbauers? He won the WC on a stacked Germany team... Cool. His contributions in Germany, Spain, and England have all led to insignificant silverware. Sorry, but Copa Del Rey and FA Cup are for bench players. Oh yeah and Kevin De Bruyne will personally make sure no one mentions Ozil after he hangs his boots up. Ozil should stick to trying to establish some kind of friendship w/ Erdogan and then move into politics in Turkey because he will be forgotten by the footballing world by the time he is 40.

Stacked?? Half of them were kids, as Ozil was himself!

And stop changing the argument, nobody said anything about being a legend, they said Ozil would be remembered during this period of the game as being one of the best if not the best CAMs in world football. You can harp on about all the nonsense you want while you desperately try to clamour around the point. You can male as many side discussions/arguments as you want. But the point is you were wrong about the focal point of this discussion.

Name a CAM who was at least his equal, let alone better than him, from 2009 to 2014.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby theHotHead » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:40 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Moving goalposts as usual EK !!!

The argument was made that nobody would remember Ozil and I argued that they would, because he was the best CAM in the world during his prime. In the same way people remember other world class players like Hasler, Scifo, Hagi etc, people will remember Ozil - not least because he was a constant topic for debate.

Stick to the argument or stop arguing.


Here are the 'goalposts'

I don't give a f**k what Ozil or any other player did a decade ago playing for someone else ... all I care about is what he does now ... show me where all these fans are who put Ozil on the level you do ... I can't find any evidence, go look at any poll by fans over the last decade, I'll pretty much guarantee you Ozil only appears in the top twenty just once, in 2012 ... so it seems people will not remember Ozil as a true great, RM fans certainly don't, and I'm pretty sure most Arsenal fans don't either.

As usual you ignored the question it appears you're not prepared to answer - would you release Ozil come the summer (assuming someone would take him) and spend the wages elsewhere? or would you pay another 36m in wages for him to stay for two more years?

I ignored the question because it is irrelevant to the topic of discussion.

On a completely different topic, therefore, one of if
Arsenal would be better served by spending Ozil's salary on other players, my answer is simple; if the manager acknowledges Ozil's strengths and weaknesses and seeks to utilise his strengths by buying players/playing tactics to support that, No, I would not want Ozil to be sold at all.

If Ozil will be marginalised by the manager and asked to play a role that does not take advantage of his core and key skills, Yes, I would want him sold because he would be completely useless to us.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby theHotHead » Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:51 pm

King of Highbury XIV wrote:
StLGooner wrote:This argument is the equivalent of 5 y/o boys on the playground at school arguing over who's dad can beat who's up.

Maybe for the people who are in the Ozil is world class camp and have nothing to back it up aside from their word which against actual stats is meaningless.

What cave have you been living in since 2008 that clearly didn't have access to the internet or the printed press??

Ozil lead assists charts in Germany during his time at Werder Bremen which led to Real Madrid buying him. Ozil led the assists charts in Spain during his time with Real Madrid. Up until recently Ozil led the assists chart in England during his time at Arsenal.

In 3 of the 4 biggest leagues in Europe Ozil has had continued success at the highest level but you Mr Know f**k All claim his stats are meaningless :rofll:

Thats because you cannot handle the fact that Ozil's stats are a thorn in your side that won't go away, no matter how much bollox you write.

And someone mentioned Ozil is only popular amongst his fans, well, Ozil has since the season he came to Arsenal been the most popular when it comes to official shirt sales, beaten I believe only once, by Sanchez. The most popular player at Arsenal but people would have us believe that is not the case. His commercial value is such that the club stated his high wages were offset by said commercial value.

But but but, nobody likes Ozil.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10) ~ Hero, Icon, Legend

Postby King of Highbury XIV » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:40 pm

theHotHead wrote:
King of Highbury XIV wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Moving goalposts as usual EK !!!

The argument was made that nobody would remember Ozil and I argued that they would, because he was the best CAM in the world during his prime. In the same way people remember other world class players like Hasler, Scifo, Hagi etc, people will remember Ozil - not least because he was a constant topic for debate.

Stick to the argument or stop arguing.

No one but you and your mates are going to talk about Ozil and refer to him as a legend of any sort. A legend for what? What has he accomplished in European football that makes you think people will rank him up their with the Ronaldo's, the Henry's, the Beckenbauers? He won the WC on a stacked Germany team... Cool. His contributions in Germany, Spain, and England have all led to insignificant silverware. Sorry, but Copa Del Rey and FA Cup are for bench players. Oh yeah and Kevin De Bruyne will personally make sure no one mentions Ozil after he hangs his boots up. Ozil should stick to trying to establish some kind of friendship w/ Erdogan and then move into politics in Turkey because he will be forgotten by the footballing world by the time he is 40.

Stacked?? Half of them were kids, as Ozil was himself!

And stop changing the argument, nobody said anything about being a legend, they said Ozil would be remembered during this period of the game as being one of the best if not the best CAMs in world football. You can harp on about all the nonsense you want while you desperately try to clamour around the point. You can male as many side discussions/arguments as you want. But the point is you were wrong about the focal point of this discussion.

Name a CAM who was at least his equal, let alone better than him, from 2009 to 2014.

Yes, that Germany team was stacked. It had Schweinni, Mario Gomez, Khedira, Mertesacker, Lahm, Podolski and Neuer in the prime of their careers. It had Hummels, Boateng, Kroos, Reus, Ozil and Mueller all entering their primes. Plus players like Schurrle, Gundogan, and Klose who was still an elite goal scorer at international level as was podolski. By prime, I'm referring to age 26-32 and entering prime 24-25.

Now, moving on to Ozil...

In that time frame, strictly league play no cups of any sort (domestic or foreign) and these are players off the top of my head

Mueller - 193 apps / 71 goals / 75 assists = 146 pts in 193 games = .76
Fabregas - 182 apps / 49 goals / 84 assists = 133 pts in 182 games = .73
Ozil - 184 apps / 37 goals / 86 assists = 123 pts in 184 games = .67
Hazard - 220 apps / 69 goals / 72 assists = 141 pts in 220 games = .64
De Bruyne - 181 apps / 39 goals / 71 assists = 110 pts in 181 games = .61
Eriksen - 176 apps / 42 goals / 61 assists = 103 pts in 176 games = .59
Lampard - 177 apps / 70 goals / 31 assists = 101 pts in 177 games = .57
Hamsik - 212 apps / 57 goals / 57 assists = 114 pts in 212 games = .54
Payet - 211 apps / 48 goals / 65 assists = 113 pts in 211 games = .54

In that time frame, Ozil had 11 more league assists than Mueller and 34 less goals in 9 less apps. Also, I've already posted the amount of times Ozil has been assist king... TWICE!!!! (09/10 Buli, 2011/12 La Liga)
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