The Wizard of Özil

[hs6bx]

If we can get away with that formation then I’m getting straight down the bookies to bet on us breaking the top 4 next year!

I do get what you mean though. We could definitely chop and change formation a bit to suit opposition. Having said that, it’s equally important that we get some key foundations laid, and reintroduce accountability for players (which has been absent for at least 10 years). Arteta keeps alluding to these non-negotiables. Ultimately I think it’s Ozil’s inability to tick the right boxes for what arteta wants at a foundational level.

I don’t actually believe that Arteta will shut the door completely on him or Guendouzi. I think he’ll happily have them in the team if they can show what he needs to see. The difficulty with Ozil is that it’s more difficult to teach an old dog new tricks. Buuuut, in the same breath older players have adapted their game successfully in the past - Gerrard, Giggs, Milner, Cazorla. The later had never played in a deeper role before the last couple of years at arsenal, and he did that role very well and looked great with and without the ball.

[theHotHead]

Yep, I agree that our poor defending has nothing to do specifically with a single player. Also agree that Pepe is poor defensively, although Saka I disagree with - he puts a shift in and gets himself goal side whenever we don’t have the ball. In fairness though Pepe has been left out quite a bit by Arteta as well.

Anyway, what EK is saying is spot on. You can’t put Ozil in the midfield 2 in the current system because they have a lot of defensive responsibility. And playing him wide in a front three isn’t going to be where he is most effective. So you either change system to get him in (which I don’t think any club should do), or he adapts his game to fit the current system.

I totally agree, there is no place for Ozil in a middle 2. However this is where formations, systems and tactics should come into play, not this one size fits all that managers seems addicted to.

Nothing stopping us playing 2 in the middle to screen defence, against the better teams, absolutely. That 2 can have a majority defensive role, but against mid level or even low level teams one of the 2 can have more license to get forward. I would play Ozil behind the attacking line, like he was employed for Real Madrid, on the break, give him the ball, runners/movement ahead of him, he will pick the right pass and release the attack. It doesn't work if you insist on slow slow slow build up play. It seems to me that a 5-2-1-3 is the formation best suited to us, because we can play 3 CBs, have wing backs support the attack or defence - so thats your width, 2 in the middle screening and Ozil behind the front 3.

Agreed. I mean, who wouldn't be suited to playing with 12 players?

LOOOOOOOOL

[theHotHead]

If we can get away with that formation then I’m getting straight down the bookies to bet on us breaking the top 4 next year!

I do get what you mean though. We could definitely chop and change formation a bit to suit opposition. Having said that, it’s equally important that we get some key foundations laid, and reintroduce accountability for players (which has been absent for at least 10 years). Arteta keeps alluding to these non-negotiables. Ultimately I think it’s Ozil’s inability to tick the right boxes for what arteta wants at a foundational level.

I don’t actually believe that Arteta will shut the door completely on him or Guendouzi. I think he’ll happily have them in the team if they can show what he needs to see. The difficulty with Ozil is that it’s more difficult to teach an old dog new tricks. Buuuut, in the same breath older players have adapted their game successfully in the past - Gerrard, Giggs, Milner, Cazorla. The later had never played in a deeper role before the last couple of years at arsenal, and he did that role very well and looked great with and without the ball.

I don't think the non-negotiables are the issue. We all saw how much extra legwork he has been putting in, chasing back, he was one of the best 3 performers under Arteta. Something else must be going on.

[hs6bx]

It’s hard to say because we don’t know what all of his non-negotiables are. Personally I haven’t observed anything different from Ozil defensively or in terms of work rate that’s been noticeable to my eyes. Whereas if I look at Aubameyang I’d say I’ve noticed him improving his defensive efforts (though not in every game, but it won’t change overnight).

As for being a top 3 performer under arteta I’d also disagree with this. Although perhaps there is something else going on behind the curtain... and maybe we will find out when he leaves... maybe we won’t.

[jayramfootball]

Ozil agent confirmed again today that Ozil is staying until his contract expires, after which he is 90% certain to leave.
Looks like we have a 350k a week hole in our finances next year with Ozil basically not playing.
This one is on Arteta. He created the stand off situation.
If Arteta does well next year, great. If we don't and we're not more creative it's all on him.

[hs6bx]

Here is a question for everyone if that is true - if there are clubs who want to sign Ozil and would pay his wages and offer him Regular first team football (assuming arsenal would even subsidise some of the wages), why wouldn’t he leave?

[jayramfootball]

Here is a question for everyone if that is true - if there are clubs who want to sign Ozil and would pay his wages and offer him Regular first team football (assuming arsenal would even subsidise some of the wages), why wouldn’t he leave?

Because no one is going to pay 350k a week.
I don't think there is a single fan I know that thinks he is worth that.

[hs6bx]

But if there were teams willing to pay his wages (or we subsidise them), then why wouldn’t he leave in order to get the same dollar (maybe even more depending on tax legislation), and play the game he supposedly loves.

I don’t think Arsenal are going to demand someone pay £350k per week if someone wants wants to loan a player that isn’t playing?

[jayramfootball]

But if there were teams willing to pay his wages (or we subsidise them), then why wouldn’t he leave in order to get the same dollar (maybe even more depending on tax legislation), and play the game he supposedly loves.

I don’t think Arsenal are going to demand someone pay £350k per week if someone wants wants to loan a player that isn’t playing?

No one is going to pay those wages to a 31 yr old and who knows what arsenal are willing to subsidise.
Besides, Ozil (as well as anyone else) would only go where they want to go. So not only does it have to be a team willing to pay the wages and / or Arsenal subsidise those wages, it has to be a team and country that is desirable.

I've seen the argument a few times - that no one wants Ozil. That's nonsense. It's about the money, not the player.

[EliteKiller]

If he stays it will be his choice - he will earn 18m next season, that's his contract we gave it to him good luck to the man - he can sit on the bench or at home as an Arsenal player and get that money .... alternatively he can go play somewhere else on loan with the loan club paying Arsenal a loan fee, apparently Fenerbahce offered 8m, he still gets his 18m wages from Arsenal we just get 8m back ....

If Arteta has no plans to use him why wouldn't we take the deal? if however Ozil wants another year in London before moving to the US/China when his contract expires, why would he take the deal?

It's all down to what he wants, face it nobody is offering 350k a week 18m for a one year loan, it's just a question of how many, if any, millions we can save on a player we no longer want, but that's IF and only IF he will accept a loan ... according to his agent he simply isn't interested, so basically we're screwed.

[DiamondGooner]

I don't see anything in Arteta's actions that he wants anything to do with Ozil or Guendouzi.

If that's going to be the case then we really need to get Ozil loaned out for at least 50% of his wages, that's Lacazettes wages saved even if we pay half of Ozil's wage.

[VCC]

I don't see anything in Arteta's actions that he wants anything to do with Ozil or Guendouzi.

If that's going to be the case then we really need to get Ozil loaned out for at least 50% of his wages, that's Lacazettes wages saved even if we pay half of Ozil's wage.

Yep there is bussiness to be done, if the offers come in it will show
A - Arsenal dont want Ozil
B- should reasonable offers come in Ozil not taking them says he would rather not play than play.he of course has that entitlement

I am not sure what I would do if he were still here after the window, if we have a decent window and can afford to pay him out I would.
If he went on loan for subsidized w
age he would gain some of my respect.
But I see this turning into a bigger fuckfest than it already is.
Play him with the youth team

[gamechannel]

If a loan offer comes in, arsenal will have to pay almost 50% of his wages just like ManU is doing with Sanchez. But it depends on Ozil if he wants to move to specific club. For example, if Juve came calling, I'm sure Ozil would go. But if its a city and club that's not desirable to him, he will end up staying. Remember, his wife loves London and he just had a kid. He might want to stay for reasons beyond football. Now, if Arsenal just paid him off and ended the contract early, then he will have a host of options to choose from cuz Ozil at anything less than 100k a week is a hell of a deal for any club.

[VCC]

If a loan offer comes in, arsenal will have to pay almost 50% of his wages just like ManU is doing with Sanchez. But it depends on Ozil if he wants to move to specific club. For example, if Juve came calling, I'm sure Ozil would go. But if its a city and club that's not desirable to him, he will end up staying. Remember, his wife loves London and he just had a kid. He might want to stay for reasons beyond football. Now, if Arsenal just paid him off and ended the contract early, then he will have a host of options to choose from cuz Ozil at anything less than 100k a week is a hell of a deal for any club.

Agreed
BUT Ozil being the player that needs a very special dynamic around him, picking up the defensive duties he does not possess is today's game a very rare thing, I think the game has moved on from carrying players at either end

[hs6bx]

I agree with you VCC. The game has moved on and there aren’t many ‘luxury’ players at top clubs anymore - even if you look at the best players in the league like KDB and Silva at city, those boys are excellent out of possession.

Anyway, Ozil, as you guys say is well within his right to stay and pick up his wages. It’s the clubs fault for offering a ludicrous contract.

However, what I will say, is that arsenal MUST be willing to accept a loan offer where we pay even £250k of his wages still. It doesn’t make financial sense not to if he’s not playing right? So a club can come in and pay Ozil £100k p/w for a year loan. Makes sense to me that this should be a no brainier to get a return on investment of some sort.

So when you take this into consideration there could only be 2 reasons why Ozil will still be at arsenal next year:
1. No other club is interested in signing him
2. He doesn’t want to move

If he doesn’t want to move for the same wages, plus first team football then I would suggest that playing football really isn’t that important to him. He’s had his career and is happy to pick up his cheque until his contract ends. Each to their own. I’m not going to lose sleep over it, but I wouldn’t want him in the team. And I don’t Think many others would (if this is the case of course).

if This is hypothetical of course, and none of us know. But is this a fair assessment? What do you guys think?